DAR - Snow For The Hungry AXIS PBEM

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

The Sixty-Sixth Minute - KT4 aka Die Vernichtung von 1 Zug

"Oh c*ck!" - James May

A terrible turn for 1 Zug that results in their destruction as an effective fighting force. Where to begin?

The 251/3 with the four men of 2 Gruppe remaining continues to take fire from the DP gunner in the trees. That boy is some shot as he takes out one, then another and then the final two men as they all line up like lemmings to be shot behind the MG.

Just like that 2 Gruppe are wiped out.

Over on the right where Operation Russenjagd had just concluded the infantry push forward and immediately get a spot on two 45mm ATGs in the treeline.

The 251/17 never spots either of them, but it's not long before the rightmost gun spots my Landsers. His first shot hits and wounds two of the four men.

Back on the left I am moving the StuG into a hull-down position on the left to take the treeline under fire.

3 Gruppe (five men) spot the infantry in the treeline and stand up to take some shots.

Then they start cursing when this appears (and they actually did say a naughty word thanks to the sound mod :)).

Things went boom.

The shot went straight into the engine and into the passenger compartment destroying the vehicle and everyone inside it.

3 Gruppe gone. The Zug is down to the two men still alive on the right, the scout team and a schrek team, a total of 7 troops.

As for that armour contact...

The StuG starts to crest the hill.

It quickly gets a spot on the harbinger of such doom. It's another T34-85.

The auto-MG takes the T34 under fire and forces him to button.

He starts reversing away but never seems to see the StuG, which fires first and scores a penetrating hit to the turret at a range of about 300m.

I am unable to perform a BDA on this hit though as the shot was taken right as the turn ended. Hopefully it's destroyed.

While all this was going on the scouts get a spot on infantry advancing through the treeline again and send some bursts their way.

A tough turn and this Zug are spent as a fighting force, they will be relegated to support and occupation duty from now on. They still have two functioning SPWs but not much else. Next turn I'm going to pull the screen I have out front back in case he charges more tanks down the highway and see if the Landsers on the right recover from their shaken state enough to get them out of there. The StuG| will stay where it is and fire on the treeline to cover the retreat, it's in a good hull-down position to cover the highway.

MMM

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Your StuG was pretty lucky, when I saw that first image of the T-34 I thought it was going to be a goner too! 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

The Sixty-Sixth Minute - Objective ROT

A reminder of the dispositions and numbering system:

The attack at KT4 seems to have emboldened my oppo as one of the contacts at the objective starts to move.

The next sequence of events all happen within about a second of one another.

1) B Trupp/2 Gruppe at the SBF position firm up the contact and get a burst of MG42 fire off. It's another T34-85.

2) In the meantime the T34 fires on the 251/17 on the road and destroys it, the shell entering the engine and impacting the ground some 30m behind the vehicle and killing the two crew inside.

3) The burst from the MG42 above takes out the tank commander.

4) One of the overwatching Panthers spots the T34 about this time, rotates, and fires.

He scores a hit on the turret at a range of 310m.

The T34 doesn't move, doesn't brew up and nobody is seen exiting the vehicle. The turret is still pointing to its left at turn's end so he may have a cover arc set up, I need more info in order to do a proper BDA.

Elsewhere on the objective 1 Kompanie get a foothold and start advancing down sector A.

1 Zug are providing cover fire along with the Tiger and take out a man in B3.

Shortly thereafter what looks like a team is seen retreating from B3 towards C3. He seems to be falling back from sector B.

The dispositions are turn's end.

SITMAP

The lone tank on the left flank is curious. Why only one T34? I am going to assume that there is a platoon over there but perhaps not as he must've known about the StuG as it was firing on the treeline not that long ago so if it were to be dealt with he'd need to send more than one tank given the disparity in optics and spotting. Hmmm.

Interesting too that he waited until that attack went in before poking his head out on the objective, but he only did it with one T34 when I know he has at least 2 over there (I'm assuming has has T34s now that I've seen at least a platoon's worth). Maybe he was testing the waters, it will be interesting to see what happens next, but if he was going to commit more than one you'd think he would have done so on this turn. That's 3 confirmed spots on T34s thus far, and I know he has at least one more on the objective so he's got more than a platoon in the AO, I'm comfortable with my assumption that he has a company of them for now.

I've updated the blood board to show my losses. I haven't updated his yet as I don't know if those T34s are knocked out or not.

For support I'm going to send 4 Zug of 2 Kompanie from the SBF force to KT4, they are not needed at the SBF position anyway.

On the objective I'm continuing to push and am keen to see what he does with that other T34.

MMM

Edited November 23, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

18 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Your StuG was pretty lucky, when I saw that first image of the T-34 I thought it was going to be a goner too! 

It never spotted him, even when it was unbuttoned. The StuG was in defilade right up until he spotted it though (from a hull-down position) and then the gun started tracking immediately so perhaps that contributed. It also had the sound contact once the 251/1 was destroyed so he knew it was there. Agreed, very lucky though.

MMM

Edited November 23, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Bozowans]

He must be getting impatient if hes moving his armor so far forward. And it's interesting that his armor seems so scattered across the AO while yours are mostly concentrated together in the attack. Could be good news for you.

I loaded up this scenario myself and had a look around earlier. I only looked at the german side though so I still have no idea what the Soviets have. Such a pretty map though.

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

6 hours ago, Bozowans said:

He must be getting impatient if hes moving his armor so far forward. And it's interesting that his armor seems so scattered across the AO while yours are mostly concentrated together in the attack. Could be good news for you.

I loaded up this scenario myself and had a look around earlier. I only looked at the german side though so I still have no idea what the Soviets have. Such a pretty map though.

I did think it a bit strange, but trying to put myself in my oppos head is half the fun. The way I see it is he could be being trying to make me think they are scattered and lure me into a well conceived ambush by a much larger force or he could not have all that many tanks and is by necessity having to scatter them a bit.

I haven't seen any that haven't been accompanied by infantry so they are not operating on their own by any means, he's at least got them working as part of a combined arms team.

MMM

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

The Sixty-Seventh Minute

KT4

A quite turn after the disaster 1 Zug endured last time.

The screen pulls back under overwatch from the StuG and they get away clean.

A hatch opens on the T34 and we see the crew running into the trees. Only two survivors were seen but the tank appears to be knocked out.

We also get a spot on the infantry retreating back into the woods. I wonder if he's trying to push Broken troops up and they are panicking at the first sign of bullets coming their way?

On the right the 251/17 fires on the ATG location while it backs away to get out of range.

The Landsers recover enough to get up and move but are soon fired upon from the treeline by both a MG and the ATG. No casualties are caused though.

Objective ROT

A reminder of the numbers and the situation at the end of last turn.

The T34's driver's hatch open, we don't see any of the crew but this one appears to be knocked out too. One thing I didn't notice last time is these are not the 1943 model (different gun).

The Tigers are being moved up slightly to be able to see further back into the objective and...

I take one of them and park it next to the buildings so it is covered on the right and it can keep an eye on the open space to the East.

On the objective 2 Zug of 1 Kompanie continue to push into the objective.

We soon get a spot on the infantry in B2 and shots are exchanged.

1 Zug also get the spot and start firing.

The enemy soon sees the error of their ways and decide to surrender.

The HQ unit that has been camped between A1 and A2 soon gets spotted too.

Unfortunately one of the Panthers also spots him and fires a 75m shell at him, hitting one of 2 Gruppe's men. Must add some cover arcs!

The HQ team does not last long however.

1 Zug comes under fire from E2 as it advances from another HQ team. The overwatching troops and Tiger do their job and quickly take him out.

He is definitely un-assing B sector as we see 1 HQ team and an infantry team retreating across the road.

We even get a HQ team that looks like it came from sector E. Is he running away or consolidating in sectors C and D?

"What about the other tanks?" I hear you say. Well first of all we get a sound contact on the third member of the platoon back in the trees, so they are moving!

They are indeed, backwards! They retreat back into the fields behind the objective, they are out of range of my infantry so I don't know if they stopped in the final position shown in this image or if they kept going.

The dispositions are the end of the turn.

SITMAP

I've updated the blood board now I've confirmed that those T34s are at least abandoned. We'll see if he recrews them. 

Over at KT4 I'm going to give it a few more minutes and see if anything else pokes its head out but it may be that that flank s quite open, so I'm thinking of dashing up there and grabbing Obj SCHWARZ. I'll need a bit bigger force than I have over there right now so I'll have to wait until ROT looks secure and then I can start to split my forces.

On the right not much is happening but I may have found a way to advance, the scrub on the right is out of sight from the farm buildings, it may be a narrow corridor I can get up, but again until I have a better hold on ROT I won't do anything over there.

MMM

Edited November 28, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

Over at KT4 I'm going to give it a few more minutes and see if anything else pokes its head out but it may be that that flank s quite open, so I'm thinking of dashing up there and grabbing Obj SCHWARZ. I'll need a bit bigger force than I have over there right now so I'll have to wait until ROT looks secure and then I can start to split my forces.

+1.  More interesting stuff.

Be careful my friend.  Unless you are confident you know where all his units are you may be dashing into some of them.  I don't know how the terrain (south?) of SCHWARZ looks but a dash up to SCHWARZ might catch flanking fire from BLUA even if SCHWARZ is empty.  

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

20 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

+1.  More interesting stuff.

Be careful my friend.  Unless you are confident you know where all his units are you may be dashing into some of them.  I don't know how the terrain (south?) of SCHWARZ looks but a dash up to SCHWARZ might catch flanking fire from BLUA even if SCHWARZ is empty.  

It’s flanked by the trees on the right all the way up, so there’s no way for anything at BLAU to fire on the highway. My thinking is that even if he has ATGs in the trees at those kind of ranges they might not even be able to fire, and they certainly wouldn’t be able to rotate quickly enough. 

It’s only the nucleus of an idea right now, I may take a more considered approach, especially as he knows I have forces over there. Should be fun either way

MMM

[Rinaldi]

On 11/23/2021 at 11:11 PM, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

The lone tank on the left flank is curious. Why only one T34? I am going to assume that there is a platoon over there but perhaps not as he must've known about the StuG as it was firing on the treeline not that long ago so if it were to be dealt with he'd need to send more than one tank given the disparity in optics and spotting. Hmmm.

Have been silently enjoying but going to chime in because I know how much the occasional comment from the peanut gallery helps encourage these huge-effort DARs. I also realise I am largely preaching to the converted but indulge me.

Assuming its an entire platoon is smart and should always be the baseline assumption (or in the 4-tank troop formation, at least assume a wingman). Could equally be that he has spread out a troop of tanks forward(ish) to take shots of opportunity, however. 

On 11/23/2021 at 11:11 PM, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

Maybe he was testing the waters, it will be interesting to see what happens next, but if he was going to commit more than one you'd think he would have done so on this turn.

Or it could be this - he may not have planned to take shots of opportunity but saw a lot of metal involved in shooting infantry on to the objective and decided to have a bite. I'm sceptical of that though due to the later spotted T-34s in the village environs itself. I think this may have been a preplanned deployment of armour in a strongpoint style fashion. 

On 11/25/2021 at 4:37 PM, Bozowans said:

He must be getting impatient if hes moving his armor so far forward.

Or it could be this. He could always be making a mistake. 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

Thanks @Rinaldi, it's always good when someone chimes in and I was hoping it would generate some discussion but if no-one does then that's fine too, I'm enjoying the process. I've got quite a few turns to write up so I'll try and get another update out today.

I must admit I'm starting to think he doesn't have that much armour in the AO, if he did then I would expect him to have sent more than one tank down the highway. As you say I think he strongpointed the objective and it was a test to see what he could get away with moving that one tank forward, perhaps he thought he had a nice keyhole position. The fact that he immediately pulled the other two tanks back tells me that he's not confident going toe-to-toe with my armour, which I think means he hasn't got enough to "spare".

Of course I could be wrong and it will all end in flames but that's the way I see it right now. I would be surprised though if he had less than a company given how much armour I've been allocated to play with, I need to do some more scouting to check.

MMM

Edited December 1, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Rinaldi]

I think templating a company is a very strong and safe assumption, given its the smallest building block for Soviet tactics and that this is a default/packaged scenario, which is therefore more likely to reflect that. 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

10 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

I think templating a company is a very strong and safe assumption, given its the smallest building block for Soviet tactics and that this is a default/packaged scenario, which is therefore more likely to reflect that. 

Yeah and I have all along. The way he has used them makes me doubt myself  But if he still has that T-34 over on the right flank and didn't move it to join the others on the objective (the one on the highway was a 1944 model, the one on the right was a 1943 model so I know it wasn't that one) then I've spotted 5 so far (4 even if he has moved it) which would mean at least 2 platoons, so likely a company.

MMM

[Chibot Mk IX]

 

On 11/8/2021 at 3:59 PM, Erwin said:

Over 300 meters to an enemy my SOP (usually) is to be unbuttoned.  Or, have the lead tank(s) buttoned with the overwatch tanks unbuttoned.  In closer range combat it's dangerous to be unbuttoned unless the enemy is mostly wiped out and one is simply mopping up a demoralized/suppressed enemy.

Sorry to hijack this topic. a recent game made me to re-think long distance engagement. I would add if you put your tank in woods , sometime it is better to keep it buttoned even in a >1000m tank duel.

In CM the armor piercing rounds have remarkable anti-personal effects. I have seen an AP missed my tank but the splash on the ground killed an infantry 30m away from the impact point. Another AP missed it's armored target, hit a tree and kills 3 infantrymen instead.  In a long distance engagement , some of the AP will overshoot, hit trees overhead and is likely cause casualty to an unbuttoned TC nearby.    

[Vanir Ausf B]

2 hours ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

In CM the armor piercing rounds have remarkable anti-personal effects.

FYI, this is a known issue that should be fixed in the next round of patches.

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

Let's hope he keeps his tanks in trees and unbuttoned then!

MMM

[chuckdyke]

@Drifter Man did some interesting tests. The spotting ability of AFV's improve dramatically when a buttoned tank has passengers. Passengers on a unbuttoned tank don't appear to have an influence. My own games I tend to have a scouting unit on the engine deck. 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

Sorry it's taking so long for the next update everyone, I am not finding much spare time at the moment with sick kids and sick parents (don't ask!).

I've got about 10 turns to write up so where appropriate I'll batch them together as not a huge amount happened in some of them.

In the meantime I thought I'd upload a picture of the planning sketch I did for this battle way back in August. The numbers have changed since I did fancy graphics for this  DAR and I identified a few more pieces of Key Terrain etc but this is typically how I record my planning, most of which I do in my head. This in combination with my OOB spreadsheet gives me all the info I typically need to get started, and I'll continually reassess and reapply METT-T (and draw new diagrams if needed - did it in my last battle against this opponent) where appropriate when the situation changes.

MMM

[Sgt.Squarehead]

But where are the 'eyes' and 'teeth'? 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

8 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

But where are the 'eyes' and 'teeth'? 

Haha, I don't think I could fit much more on that diagram without getting completely lost, maybe a small set of each

MMM

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

The Sixty-Eighth and Sixty-Ninth Minutes

KT4

On the left the StuG continues to fire its MG into the treeline and we spot an infantry squad/team retreating.

On the right both the Landsers who were pinned regain their senses and both make it back to the waiting SPW.

Objective ROT

The numbering system and how we left it last time:

The assault continues. I start to move 1 Zug up and take casualties in both 2 Gruppe and 1 Gruppe within seconds of one another. The shots seemed to come from C2 and were fired down the street between sectors A and B.

The Tiger and some guys from 2 Zug start to take the building under fire.

It's not long before he's spotted. A DP gunner, the last man standing from his team or squad.

He doesn't last long under the weight of my fire, too many eyes and guns.

The Ivans in B2 are taken back to the rear for processing. This is a good sign as it means he doesn't have any presence in sector B by the looks of things.

The last man from one of the ATG teams is still up and kicking in E2 and gives his position away.

He too doesn't last long.

More of the enemy are seen retreating towards D3 and some of them make it. It was 2 infantry teams/squads and 1 HQ team, I cause 2 casualties that I can see. That building will be getting some Teutonic love in a bit.

We also get a spot on another HQ unit evacuating sector E. This one has a pistol, company/squadron HQ perhaps?

A curious thing happens, it looks like a mortar spotting round lands not too far from the Tiger HQ panzer and 1 Zug. I can't imagine he has LOS on whatever he was trying to hit anymore given the number of HQ teams I've seen retreating. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

The dispositions at turn's end.

SITMAP

All's quiet on the right. I would expect that should he try and move any armour through KT2 3 Kompanie will hear it, they are deployed in the woods.

On the objective it's time to step it up a bit, he's clearly drawing back. How far remains to be seen. I suspect he may have pulled his tanks right back as I have not heard or seen anything of them at all.

MMM

Edited December 2, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Erwin]

Strange...  can't see any of your pics.

[chuckdyke]

30 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Strange...  can't see any of your pics.

I don't have that problem. 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

Strange...  can't see any of your pics.

I can see them fine, are you still having issues?

MMM

[Erwin]

Can see em fine now.  Thanx.  Love your AAR.  Wish I could make comments re your S&T.  But, that could make spoilers.