chuckdyke Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I find that by combining an Assault order with a direct fire order it looks much more realistic. The squad forms a base of fire and a maneuver element. Don't make the path to long. Experiment and test. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 OK guys, reel it in please; at no point did I say or imply that this would ever amount to a 'take the controls and do what I would do' panacea instruction to the AI. It just isn't, and never will be that way (or else we all have bigger problems because Skynet is self-aware and we're all AA batteries or sumfink). ....But being able to order units (platoons) to path themselves to destinations in a manner akin to the way a scenario designer programs AI maneuvers for the computer OpFor is a *distinct* playability improvement. More important, it seems actionable to introduce, a feature where all the parts are in place now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 4 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said: ....But being able to order units (platoons) to path themselves to destinations in a manner akin to the way a scenario designer programs AI maneuvers for the computer OpFor is a *distinct* playability improvement. I still don't get it. The scenario designer cannot tell a vehicle to stick to roads. There's no advanced pathing in place for AI orders. It's the designer that decides where a unit will go, and at what time. Then the game just adds movement orders straight towards the target. Same movement orders that we have now - move, quick, fast... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous_Jonze Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I'd like to see one of the members of an MG crew carry the tripod on their back. Also, an animation of them setting up guns would be nice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypeman Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I think a nice quality of life improvement would be an expansion of tags into quick battles. There should be a tab within quick battle parameters that enables the user to assign tags just like they would in the scenario editor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Yawn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 2/8/2021 at 8:13 AM, Xorg_Xalargsky said: 1. Shoot n' Scoot command 2. Pre-configurable fallback point to be used when a unit retreats or combined with Shoot n' Scoot 3. UI element or command that lets you disable special weapons like ATGM's on a BMP or Panzerfausts in a Grenadier squad you don't need shoot and scoot, its already available 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xorg_Xalargsky Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, weapon2010 said: you don't need shoot and scoot, its already available I would disagree. From the player's perspective, shoot n' scoot can be implemented, but not from the AI's perspective. As of now, the method relies on the Pause command, timing, and luck. I'd rather have a command that allows a team or vehicle to fire 1 missile/grenade/burst/etc... and then retreat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 42 minutes ago, Xorg_Xalargsky said: I'd rather have a command that allows a team or vehicle to fire 1 missile/grenade/burst/etc... and then retreat. +1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Anonymous_Jonze said: I'd like to see one of the members of an MG crew carry the tripod on their back. Also, an animation of them setting up guns would be nice. I concur that is actually how it is done; we should be able to split an HMG crew. First party positions the tripod, the 2nd comes a little later with the gun. It could be an assault order for the HMG. We are a bunch of kids writing letters to Santa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 50 minutes ago, Xorg_Xalargsky said: I would disagree. From the player's perspective, shoot n' scoot can be implemented, but not from the AI's perspective. As of now, the method relies on the Pause command, timing, and luck. I'd rather have a command that allows a team or vehicle to fire 1 missile/grenade/burst/etc... and then retreat. Try this way, fast forward plot a target for the full minute than a reverse he stops firing the moment he loses LOS. I am happy with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xorg_Xalargsky Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 27 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: Try this way, fast forward plot a target for the full minute than a reverse he stops firing the moment he loses LOS. I am happy with it. Yeah but that would require prior LOS to the target no? The situation a Shoot n' Scoot command would be most useful for is a high-risk roadside ambush with a small window of opportunity or say a javelin team being used in a true fire and forget fashion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Xorg_Xalargsky said: Yeah but that would require prior LOS to the target no? The situation a Shoot n' Scoot command would be most useful for is a high-risk roadside ambush with a small window of opportunity or say a javelin team being used in a true fire and forget fashion. No, it doesn't as an example. An AFV is behind the crest of a hill. You plot a 'Fast Move' highlight and plot your direct fire. A recent Contact Icon is ideal as a target, after you plot your reverse. I used it with a Hellcat in FB Campaign. The Stug III didn't stand a chance but that was against the AI. In Modern Warfare the German Wiesel is ideal but that mini AFV is doing it most of the time. If you like I could make a screen shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 @Xorg_Xalargsky This is how: First Way Point just behind the Crest, Second Way Point just over. You need to experiment for different systems. One minute later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 hours ago, chuckdyke said: @Xorg_Xalargsky This is how: First Way Point just behind the Crest, Second Way Point just over. You need to experiment for different systems. One minute later. Interresting but is not always what we are really looking sometime is like a "fake" view... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, 3j2m7 said: Interresting but is not always what we are really looking sometime is like a "fake" view... All I can do is play the game and make a screenshot of a technique. Test it yourself before you tell people it is fake. Bye. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: All I can do is play the game and make a screenshot of a technique. Test it yourself before you tell people it is fake. Bye. Hey hey my friend, probably I just made a bad interpretation of my thought and not something wrong about yours tests and results, and I am really happy to see some...but is in the gameplay itself...calm down and drink fresh... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 3j2m7 said: Hey hey my friend, probably I just made a bad interpretation of my thought and not something wrong about yours tests and results, and I am really happy to see some...but is in the gameplay itself...calm down and drink fresh... All good, it is the way I do shoot and scoot, assault and recon by fire. Rest assured if I post a screenshot it is real. It is probably how the original shoot and scoot worked. No need for 15 sec sequences the AI has time to react. No frugality with ammunition makes sure it has a purpose. With modern battle tank fast only and it 100% more effective if you stop, you're gone. Edited February 12, 2021 by chuckdyke 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: All good, it is the way I do shoot and scoot, assault and recon by fire. Rest assured if I post a screenshot it is real. It is probably how the original shoot and scoot worked. No need for 15 sec sequences the AI has time to react. No frugality with ammunition makes sure it has a purpose. With modern battle tank fast only and it 100% more effective if you stop, you're gone. Believe me I follow your interresting tests and I take good notes of yours job keeping for myself for the futur... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, 3j2m7 said: Believe me I follow your interresting tests and I take good notes of yours job keeping for myself for the futur... Here one for down the road. Someone made the point helicopters see AFV's but not infantry. Tested this out with a Scimitar who moved 'Fast' his strongest defense. With aircover you do an effective recon. We spotted a pillbox and two ATGM's sites too. It works against the AI against a human player? Edited February 12, 2021 by chuckdyke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 8:56 PM, Xorg_Xalargsky said: a command that allows a team or vehicle to fire 1 missile/grenade/burst/etc... and then retreat Then i would agree , we dont' have that ,and Im always up for more detail, options and commands, such as a more precise armor arc, i would like to set an armor arc so it excludes firing at annoying, small recon vehicles such as jeeps, halftracks, and weak armor recon. Armor Arc All Armor Vehicles Armor Arc Medium 75mm and less Armor Arc Heavy 76mm and over 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, weapon2010 said: Then i would agree , we dont' have that ,and Im always up for more detail, options and commands, such as a more precise armor arc, i would like to set an armor arc so it excludes firing at annoying, small recon vehicles such as jeeps, halftracks, and weak armor recon. Armor Arc All Armor Vehicles Armor Arc Medium 75mm and less Armor Arc Heavy 76mm and over I wouldn't ignore the German 'Wiesel'. Size of WW 2 Bren Carrier but with ATGM's. What we want is an action editor so the player can edit his own requirements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 2/12/2021 at 4:00 AM, Bulletpoint said: I still don't get it. The scenario designer cannot tell a vehicle to stick to roads. There's no advanced pathing in place for AI orders. It's the designer that decides where a unit will go, and at what time. Then the game just adds movement orders straight towards the target. Same movement orders that we have now - move, quick, fast... Sorry BP, but this is not quite true. I don't know how much time you've spent in the AI Editor and then playtesting the results, but you will find that the computer doesn't just have the units QUICK or SLOW directly and all at once in a nonstop beeline to their (randomly chosen) destination square. 1. The units in the AI group set off at different times (it seems, although I've never quite confirmed, that rifle sections jump off first with other units - HQs, MGs, etc. - following after a delay of as much as 3 minutes). 2. When there's cover terrain along the way, even if it's not quite in a straight line, the computer will, with no human instructions needed, have the units pause in it long enough for lagging pixtruppen to catch up before taking another bound. 3. If they come under fire and become ALERTED or worse, they will go to ground, but once the shooting stops and they aren't too shot up, they will usually resume their advance as before. ... So, as previously stated, I'd find it a *vast* playability improvement to be able to access a powerful toolset that already exists in the game, right now! Painting an objective plus a couple of parameters for each infantry maneuver platoon, and then letting them go to it as best they can, lets us spend our precious game time evaluating the unfolding tactical situation, or micromanaging the key decision points -- that is, being a tactical commander! rather than spending hour after tedious hour herding, reherding, reherding 50+ cats. Then realizing it's 3am your eyes and back hurt and you're barely 1/3 of the way through. And as I said before, if I'm going to say eff it and just banzai charge my guys around to save time, then why on earth am I playing a 'historically authentic' tactical wargame again? There are far more visually appealing shooter games out there to play digital paintball. This isn't just me, I think. @Aquila-SmartWargames had that exact experience playing my painstakingly historical Makin Atoll scenario which he was kind enough to share on Youtube. But the huge micro burden of landing and pushing a reinforced BCT of Green troops inland in complex terrain was just too crazy. He got hungry and cranky and just started QUICKing his grunts around, screw their casualties and exhaustion. Which I can sympathize with because I've done it myself. But that isn't wargaming. And it doesn't have to be that way. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37mm Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, LongLeftFlank said: ... you will find that the computer doesn't just have the units QUICK or SLOW directly and all at once in a nonstop beeline to their (randomly chosen) destination square. Here's an experiment which proves that the CMx2 (v4.0) AI is indeed more advanced than what one might imagine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I agree with @LongLeftFlank but the AI is unpredictable. For some AFV's the .50 Cal is a Christmas decoration. But I managed to make a screenshot of one using it during a recon mission. Losing a TC is unnecessary, we all start micromanaging the game too much. It is good sharing experiences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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