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OK guys, reel it in please; at no point did I say or imply that this would ever amount to a 'take the controls and do what I would do' panacea instruction to the AI. It just isn't, and never will be that way (or else we all have bigger problems because Skynet is self-aware and we're all AA batteries or sumfink).

....But being able to order units (platoons) to path themselves to destinations in a manner akin to the way a scenario designer programs AI maneuvers for the computer OpFor is a *distinct* playability improvement. More important, it seems actionable to introduce, a feature where all the parts are in place now.

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4 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

....But being able to order units (platoons) to path themselves to destinations in a manner akin to the way a scenario designer programs AI maneuvers for the computer OpFor is a *distinct* playability improvement.

I still don't get it. The scenario designer cannot tell a vehicle to stick to roads. There's no advanced pathing in place for AI orders. It's the designer that decides where a unit will go, and at what time. Then the game just adds movement orders straight towards the target. Same movement orders that we have now - move, quick, fast...

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On 2/8/2021 at 8:13 AM, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

1. Shoot n' Scoot command 

2. Pre-configurable fallback point to be used when a unit retreats or combined with Shoot n' Scoot

3. UI element or command that lets you disable special weapons like ATGM's on a BMP or Panzerfausts in a Grenadier squad

you don't need shoot and scoot, its already available

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1 hour ago, weapon2010 said:

you don't need shoot and scoot, its already available

I would disagree.

From the player's perspective, shoot n' scoot can be implemented, but not from the AI's perspective.

As of now, the method relies on the Pause command, timing, and luck.
I'd rather have a command that allows a team or vehicle to fire 1 missile/grenade/burst/etc... and then retreat.

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6 hours ago, Anonymous_Jonze said:

I'd like to see one of the members of an MG crew carry the tripod on their back. Also, an animation of them setting up guns would be nice.

I concur that is actually how it is done; we should be able to split an HMG crew. First party positions the tripod, the 2nd comes a little later with the gun. It could be an assault order for the HMG. We are a bunch of kids writing letters to Santa. 

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50 minutes ago, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

I would disagree.

From the player's perspective, shoot n' scoot can be implemented, but not from the AI's perspective.

As of now, the method relies on the Pause command, timing, and luck.
I'd rather have a command that allows a team or vehicle to fire 1 missile/grenade/burst/etc... and then retreat.

Try this way, fast forward plot a target for the full minute than a reverse he stops firing the moment he loses LOS. I am happy with it. 

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27 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Try this way, fast forward plot a target for the full minute than a reverse he stops firing the moment he loses LOS. I am happy with it. 

Yeah but that would require prior LOS to the target no?

The situation a Shoot n' Scoot command would be most useful for is a high-risk roadside ambush with a small window of opportunity or say a javelin team being used in a true fire and forget fashion.

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1 minute ago, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

Yeah but that would require prior LOS to the target no?

The situation a Shoot n' Scoot command would be most useful for is a high-risk roadside ambush with a small window of opportunity or say a javelin team being used in a true fire and forget fashion.

No, it doesn't as an example. An AFV is behind the crest of a hill. You plot a 'Fast Move' highlight and plot your direct fire. A recent Contact Icon is ideal as a target, after you plot your reverse. I used it with a Hellcat in FB Campaign. The Stug III didn't stand a chance but that was against the AI. In Modern Warfare the German Wiesel is ideal but that mini AFV is doing it most of the time. If you like I could make a screen shot. 

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4 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

All I can do is play the game and make a screenshot of a technique. Test it yourself before you tell people it is fake. Bye. 

Hey hey my friend,  probably I just made a bad interpretation of my thought and not something wrong about yours tests and results, and I am really happy to see some...but is in the gameplay itself...calm down and drink fresh...

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6 minutes ago, 3j2m7 said:

Hey hey my friend,  probably I just made a bad interpretation of my thought and not something wrong about yours tests and results, and I am really happy to see some...but is in the gameplay itself...calm down and drink fresh...

All good, it is the way I do shoot and scoot, assault and recon by fire. Rest assured if I post a screenshot it is real. It is probably how the original shoot and scoot worked. No need for 15 sec sequences the AI has time to react. No frugality with ammunition makes sure it has a purpose. With modern battle tank fast only and it 100% more effective if you stop, you're gone. 

Edited by chuckdyke
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5 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

All good, it is the way I do shoot and scoot, assault and recon by fire. Rest assured if I post a screenshot it is real. It is probably how the original shoot and scoot worked. No need for 15 sec sequences the AI has time to react. No frugality with ammunition makes sure it has a purpose. With modern battle tank fast only and it 100% more effective if you stop, you're gone. 

Believe me I follow your interresting tests and  I take good notes of yours job keeping for myself  for the futur...

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7 minutes ago, 3j2m7 said:

Believe me I follow your interresting tests and  I take good notes of yours job keeping for myself  for the futur...

Here one for down the road. Someone made the point helicopters see AFV's but not infantry. Tested this out with a Scimitar who moved 'Fast' his strongest defense. With aircover you do an effective recon. We spotted a pillbox and two ATGM's sites too. It works against the AI against a human player?

ReconS.jpg

Edited by chuckdyke
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On 2/11/2021 at 8:56 PM, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

a command that allows a team or vehicle to fire 1 missile/grenade/burst/etc... and then retreat

 Then i would agree , we dont' have that ,and Im always up for more detail, options and commands, such as a more precise armor arc, i would like to set an armor arc so it  excludes firing at annoying, small recon vehicles such as jeeps, halftracks, and weak armor recon.

Armor Arc                      All Armor Vehicles

Armor Arc Medium        75mm and less

Armor Arc Heavy          76mm and over

 

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1 hour ago, weapon2010 said:

 Then i would agree , we dont' have that ,and Im always up for more detail, options and commands, such as a more precise armor arc, i would like to set an armor arc so it  excludes firing at annoying, small recon vehicles such as jeeps, halftracks, and weak armor recon.

Armor Arc                      All Armor Vehicles

Armor Arc Medium        75mm and less

Armor Arc Heavy          76mm and over

 

I wouldn't ignore the German 'Wiesel'. Size of WW 2 Bren Carrier but with ATGM's. What we want is an action editor so the player can edit his own requirements. 

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On 2/12/2021 at 4:00 AM, Bulletpoint said:

I still don't get it. The scenario designer cannot tell a vehicle to stick to roads. There's no advanced pathing in place for AI orders. It's the designer that decides where a unit will go, and at what time. Then the game just adds movement orders straight towards the target. Same movement orders that we have now - move, quick, fast...

Sorry BP, but this is not quite true.

I don't know how much time you've spent in the AI Editor and then playtesting the results, but you will find that the computer doesn't just have the units QUICK or SLOW directly and all at once in a nonstop beeline to their (randomly chosen) destination square.

1. The units in the AI group set off at different times (it seems, although I've never quite confirmed, that rifle sections jump off first with other units - HQs, MGs, etc. - following after a delay of as much as 3 minutes). 

2. When there's cover terrain along the way, even if it's not quite in a straight line, the computer will, with no human instructions needed, have the units pause in it long enough for lagging pixtruppen to catch up before taking another bound.

3. If they come under fire and become ALERTED or worse, they will go to ground, but once the shooting stops and they aren't too shot up, they will usually resume their advance as before.

... So, as previously stated, I'd find it a *vast* playability improvement to be able to access a powerful toolset that already exists in the game, right now! 

Painting an objective plus a couple of parameters for each infantry maneuver platoon, and then letting them go to it as best they can, lets us spend our precious game time evaluating the unfolding tactical situation, or micromanaging the key decision points -- that is, being a tactical commander!  rather than spending hour after tedious hour herding, reherding, reherding 50+ cats. Then realizing it's 3am your eyes and back hurt and you're barely 1/3 of the way through.

And as I said before, if I'm going to say eff it and just banzai charge my guys around to save time, then why on earth am I playing a 'historically authentic' tactical wargame again? There are far more visually appealing shooter games out there to play digital paintball.

This isn't just me, I think. 

@Aquila-SmartWargames had that exact experience playing my painstakingly historical Makin Atoll scenario which he was kind enough to share on Youtube. But the huge micro burden of landing and pushing a reinforced BCT of Green troops inland in complex terrain was just too crazy. He got hungry and cranky and just started QUICKing his grunts around, screw their casualties and exhaustion. Which I can sympathize with because I've done it myself. But that isn't wargaming. And it doesn't have to be that way.

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