The Vehicle Pack is out!

[Hister]

Oh I wish! I'd be walking around with rolled up wads of cash like those guys do if that was the case

No, I work at a school as a substitute. Mostly with the pre-school kids ages 5-6 but also at the after-school type institutions but not as a teacher since I'm not a trained teacher.

Ha, I'm doing a similar job! I escort kids with special needs (not disabled but rather the ones with serious mental issues) in primary school and also do the early morning shift for kids aged from 6 to 7 meaning I have to wake up at 5.30 every day. Since I wasn't trained to do that (I'm a geographer by my profession) my wage sucks and is about the minimum for my country. Work is really tough but I should consider myself lucky since many young people here can't get any job.

Sorry for the offtopic guys but it's always nice being able to get to lnow other dwellers here on the forum.

[Oddball_E8]

Good point, i downloaded the pack last night, not much time to play but activation was not a problem just have the instructions to hand!!

I can wait to get the new Churchills into action, I like playing as the Brits and they need some extra firepower.

PS Except for the crab that I think i will leave on the beach!!

I would really like to see what happens if a Crab drives over an enemy infantry unit.

I suspect that nothing will happen, but I'd still like to see it

EDIT: In-game I mean... I would NOT like to see that happen in real life

[Scipio]

BFC should use the Rockefeller Principle: 'Give away the lamp and sell the oil'. In other words: give away the core game and sell unit/forces/wathever packages.

Funny enough, maps are already 95% compatible within the CMx2 game family, you only need to change a single hex in the scenario file. Just the TO&E get mixed up completly, and a few ground tiles and such causing trouble.

[YankeeDog]

Despite BF's announcement I really hope they rethink releasing vehicle packs without scenarios.

Better to have more packs with fewer vehicles per pack but include some scenarios that use the new units so people who prefer to play (rather than just drooling over pics and other people's AAR's) can immediately play.

Just remember that this will raise the price; what you're talking about would make a Pack almost as much work as a Module to produce.

[Oddball_E8]

BFC should use the Rockefeller Principle: 'Give away the lamp and sell the oil'. In other words: give away the core game and sell unit/forces/wathever packages.

Funny enough, maps are already 95% compatible within the CMx2 game family, you only need to change a single hex in the scenario file. Just the TO&E get mixed up completly, and a few ground tiles and such causing trouble.

The problem with that approach is that suddenly scenario makers have to pick and choose from all the packs and if you don't happen to have the "sherman firefly" pack (or whatever pack) then you can't play alot of the scenarios.

Keeping the modules down to a minimum removes that problem.

[Pak40]

It just occured to me we didn't get the Brümbar. They were present in the theater. Yep there's definitely enough vehicles remaining for another vehicle pack. I hope this is a success.

Damn, you're right. Hell, even the base Squad Leader game included the Brumbar. Too many people have been lobbying for long range mobile artillery pieces like the Grill that they forgot to lobby for the close support AFVs like the Brumbar.

[c3k]

I would bill based on how far the units move and/or how much ammo they expend.

My tanks ran out of...err...credits! Now they're sitting ducks. More ammo to my left flank mg42! Quick, slide my card through the usb point of sale scanner.

[waclaw]

And for 20 bucks I could get several tasty pizzas.

It's all about what you want more.

If you want another game (a cheap one tho) instead of these vehicles, then by all means, buy another game.

But for the amount of content, I think it's worth 20 bucks.

Someone calculated that it was 79 cents per unit, and that certainly seems fair.

This is only about 20 models of vehicles for which there is no scenario or campaign, and are only suitable for playing PBM - a pizza that you can not eat - but you can lick and watch it.

[Oddball_E8]

This is only about 20 models of vehicles for which there is no scenario or campaign, and are only suitable for playing PBM - a pizza that you can not eat - but you can lick and watch it.

Nice hyperbole there.

But no.

I count 27 new units (because, yes, things that aren't vehicles count too).

And there are already scenarios being updated to use the new pack (so far I've counted 4 I think, but more are surely coming) and those cost you nothing at all.

So no, this is not "a pizza you can not eat, but only lick and watch".

We get it, you don't think it's worth the money.

And that's fine.

You are allowed to think that.

What you aren't allowed to do is to imply that the price isn't fair or that we are somehow wrong in thinking it's a fair price.

Because, guess what?

We think it's worth the money.

And you can't tell us it isn't.

[waclaw]

Nice hyperbole there.

But no.

I count 27 new units (because, yes, things that aren't vehicles count too).

And there are already scenarios being updated to use the new pack (so far I've counted 4 I think, but more are surely coming) and those cost you nothing at all.

So no, this is not "a pizza you can not eat, but only lick and watch".

We get it, you don't think it's worth the money.

And that's fine.

You are allowed to think that.

What you aren't allowed to do is to imply that the price isn't fair or that we are somehow wrong in thinking it's a fair price.

Because, guess what?

We think it's worth the money.

And you can't tell us it isn't.

In the "Gustav Line" for $ 35 we got new formations, new units, new types of weather (spring, autumn, winter), new nations, Poles, united kingdom, Canadians, New Zealanders, dozens of guns and vehicles, campaigns and scenarios, patches for the game etc.

Here we have more than 20 models of vehicles whose use in the game is very limited and costs 20 bucks.

Of course you can write, it's worth the money because it is ......... worth the money - I however compares with other products 'BF' and in relation to them is simply too expensive.

[Placebo]

Of course you can write, it's worth the money because it is ......... worth the money - I however compares with other products 'BF' and in relation to them is simply too expensive.

It is simply more expensive (relative to previous add ons) its not too expense for me.

[Erwin]

Just remember that this will raise the price; what you're talking about would make a Pack almost as much work as a Module to produce.

The thing is that without scenarios to play I personally find the Vehicle Pack to be a waste of space on my HD. As I said, I want to PLAY not look at pics or AAR's.

Anyway, if each pack had (say) half the number of vehicles but included a couple of scenarios wouldn't that result in about the same price? Also, since I ordered a hard copy, this Pack cost me $50 - about the same as a module (or even base game).

I think the game is close to being perfected for average entertainment purposes. I do crave more and better campaigns. Campaigns are clearly becoming way too time consuming for volunteers to produce. If I had to choose, I would rather spend $50 on a Campaigns Pack rather than on a New Units Pack that can't be used immediately.

[poesel]

I've bought the pack and I'm also ok with the price.

Still it would have been nice if some small showcase scenarios would have been included. Because now I have the pack but nothing to look at - that is disappointing. A QB vs the AI? Meh. But a few very small scenarios - a Crab + infantry vs. an AT bunker behind a minefield for instance - check. Something like that.

Yes, I could do that myself but hey: I've just bought the thing. Show me the cool stuff I just paid for. Even the thing from ChrisNDs twitch.tv would have been better than nothing.

[BLSTK]

As someone smarter than me said,

"Brothers, why can't we all just get along? Do we not all enjoy eating pizza? Or would we rather just 'lick and look' "?

Oh, to have one's (pizza)pie and eat it too.

[Mord]

The thing is that without scenarios to play I personally find the Vehicle Pack to be a waste of space on my HD.

I would've never guessed.

Here; http://www.mediafire.com/download/ou6d1e1dac5rqd6/Vehicle+Pack+Attack.btt

Mord.

[Oddball_E8]

In the "Gustav Line" for $ 35 we got new formations, new units, new types of weather (spring, autumn, winter), new nations, Poles, united kingdom, Canadians, New Zealanders, dozens of guns and vehicles, campaigns and scenarios, patches for the game etc.

Here we have more than 20 models of vehicles whose use in the game is very limited and costs 20 bucks.

Of course you can write, it's worth the money because it is ......... worth the money - I however compares with other products 'BF' and in relation to them is simply too expensive.

Sure, and in the base game you get a gazillion times more than that at only 20$ more.

You can't compare them like that.

The base games are 55 bucks.

The modules are 35 bucks.

The packs are 20 bucks.

The patches are 10 bucks.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

20 bucks is not that much money.

Could you get an entire new game for that?

Sure.

But then you could argue that the base game should only be 20 bucks since you can buy another game for that.

And then the modules would have to be 5 bucks.

And the packs and patches completely free.

And BFC would be bankrupt and we wouldn't have any more games.

20 bucks is what THEY think it is worth for the effort made to make it.

Don't agree?

Then don't buy.

But stop trying to convince the world that it's too much money because it really isn't.

20 bucks is not alot of money and 27 units is actually quite alot of units.

Hell, I'm unemployed with no benefits (in other words, I get nothing from the government) and I still think it's worth 20 bucks.

Just sit down and think about how many hours you have to work to earn 20 bucks.

Then contemplate how many hours of fun you could get out of this pack.

You'll notice that 20 bucks isn't much for the amount of fun you can have with the pack.

Unless, of course, there are no units that interest you in the pack, but in that case you don't get to judge how valuable the pack is since it has no value to you in the first place.

[Oddball_E8]

I've bought the pack and I'm also ok with the price.

Still it would have been nice if some small showcase scenarios would have been included. Because now I have the pack but nothing to look at - that is disappointing. A QB vs the AI? Meh. But a few very small scenarios - a Crab + infantry vs. an AT bunker behind a minefield for instance - check. Something like that.

Yes, I could do that myself but hey: I've just bought the thing. Show me the cool stuff I just paid for. Even the thing from ChrisNDs twitch.tv would have been better than nothing.

Well, there's already 4-5 scenarios available for download (for FREE) that make use of the vehicle pack.

So what's the problem here?

That you don't get to pay extra for some scenarios and get them for free instead?

[ridethe415]

Hell, I'm unemployed with no benefits (in other words, I get nothing from the government) and I still think it's worth 20 bucks.

When I was unemployed...for over 2 years (AND going through a divorce :eek:)...gaming was the one thing I always found money for. It was therapy. Kept me sane. Relatively.

So what's the problem here?

Whiners gotta whine. Haters gotta hate. But gamers always game.

[Quintus Sertorius]

The price did strike me as a bit steep, but I bought the VP anyway. Now that I've played around with it a bit, I don't regret buying it at all. Love the B2 and the R35.

EDIT: I didn't have any trouble with re-activation, either. I just followed the instructions very carefully.

[Buzz]

Busy with other projects and just noted the Vehicle Pack release!

Treated myself to Lobsters Crabs of Doom! aka CMBN Vehicle Pack.

Made the Vehicle Pack purchase.

* I spend more than $20 taking wife to a movie theater... even more if we stop for ice cream after. *"Economics... it's a big mystery to some people."

Anyway...

Removed Z folder on EVO Hackintosh... just to be safe.

Follow the install instructions.

Installation is pretty straight forward step by step by step w/o starting the game till all the steps were complete.

Restart.

Fire up the CMBN/CW/MG/VP and all 4 icons are smiling back at me with intro screen reading V3.10 Game Engine 3

Loaded "Boderland inc CMBN vehicle pack" from Pete Wenman and 'fired up some hot ones' like the Flammpanzer Char B-2(f). Drove around lighting stuff up to test the sizzle stick... spicy hot;)

Yep. Crabs, Crocodiles, toss in the Churchlll AVRE with it's 290mm "Petard" mortar, Kangaroos, concrete reinforced bunker weapons and add FIRE!

I am good

Happy Halloween

[c3k]

Whiners gotta whine. Haters gotta hate. But gamers always game.

LOL. Thanks.

[c3k]

Okay...

Time to wade in. Hell, it's raining outside, the wife's abed, and the wine has breathed.

Is $20 too much? That's YOUR choice. Shrug.

If a free market ever really existed since 1914, it'd give the answer. Begging that, the system we have now will give a close approximation.

Will you trade the equivalent of $20 of your labor for the Vehicle Pack? Well, let's translate what's in the Vehicle Pack into labor.

I did such a small, bit, tiny part of it, I am embarrassed to even say I pitched in. Really. Yet, I've invested about...30 hours of my personal labor into the pack. That's me. Is my labor worth 66 cents per hour? Well, no. It is worth FAR more. Really. I get paid a LOT more than that to add value in other venues. But that's there, not here. I know my market worth: it is...higher than 66 cents for each hour of labor I've put in. (Yes, that's a rough estimate. Change it as it suits you.)

Others have put in FAR more effort.

Let's say...10 guys have put in 5x the labor I've put in. You're looking at 51 times the labor I've just described. (Mine is one, theirs is 50.) So... 66 cents divided by 51 is...about 1 1/4 cents per hour.

Is that what you value their contribution? If you think that's too steep, don't buy it.

If you think MikeyD, Charles, Phil, Steve, and all the others who have put in more than I have, should get their labor value at 1 1/4 cents per hour, then trade your $20 of labor (what's that, an hour or two?), for their combined labor.

Or, say that a flat, overcooked, pizza is a more worthy trade for your labor than the guys that made the pack.

If enough folks buy pizza, you won't have to worry about the price of any future pack.

If enough folks buy the pack, you'll have gaming to last a lifetime.

Your choice. Free-ish market.

Ken

[Doug Williams]

Something that was said a few pages back is worth repeating.

For us, it would take about 2 months to make and test a dozen scenarios for a Vehicle Pack. The reason is that there's always development problems that stall scenario development and scenario work that stalls testing (if you're working the Editor you're only testing a subset of the game).

By putting out a Vehicle Pack now we expose the new content to a LOT more people than our testing team. Give that group 2 months and the number of scenarios available will dwarf what we could have produced in the same time. And all those scenarios are free.

So for those of you who want to play hand crafted scenarios instead of QBs or self made scenarios... just wait a couple of months and you'll have what you need. Or get it now, have some fun with it, and then in a couple of months get scenarios made by others. No matter what, with the content in people's hands there will be scenarios ready to go even without any shipping with the Vehicle Pack itself.

To answer another question, we plan on releasing various Packs of the following types:

1. Vehicle Packs -> primarily vehicles only, though some other weapons too. No scenarios or campaigns.

2. Forces Packs -> primarily specialized or new national forces, though perhaps some weapons too. No scenarios or campaigns.

3. Battle Packs -> only battles and campaigns, probably with an emphasis to support Vehicle and Forces Packs since previous releases should have plenty of scenarios and campaigns already.

Pricing is very flexible. Smaller Packs cost less, larger ones cost more, others are inbetween.

Note that we are not planning on very small Packs. No firm rules on that, but a small Vehicle Pack might be 10+ vehicles/weapons, a medium one 15+, and a large one 20+ with prices of $10, $15, and $20 respectively.

Steve

Steve,

Please consider those of us who primarily play PBEMs, and try to find a way to make your releases within a "family" more compatible for those of us with multiple PBEM games.

On average, I have around five ongoing PBEMs, spread out between CMBN, CMFI, and CMRT. Many of these games take weeks to play, and some of them are tourney games that matter a good deal to me. I hate fooling with dual installs, because I work for a living and need to keep my gaming time as simple as possible.

I have no objection to the monetary cost of the CMBN vehicle pack, but for me to install it at this point would wreck all five of my current CMBN PBEM games (four of which are tourney games).

D.

[Destraex1]

Okay...

Time to wade in. Hell, it's raining outside, the wife's abed, and the wine has breathed.

Is $20 too much? That's YOUR choice. Shrug.

If a free market ever really existed since 1914, it'd give the answer. Begging that, the system we have now will give a close approximation.

Will you trade the equivalent of $20 of your labor for the Vehicle Pack? Well, let's translate what's in the Vehicle Pack into labor.

I did such a small, bit, tiny part of it, I am embarrassed to even say I pitched in. Really. Yet, I've invested about...30 hours of my personal labor into the pack. That's me. Is my labor worth 66 cents per hour? Well, no. It is worth FAR more. Really. I get paid a LOT more than that to add value in other venues. But that's there, not here. I know my market worth: it is...higher than 66 cents for each hour of labor I've put in. (Yes, that's a rough estimate. Change it as it suits you.)

Others have put in FAR more effort.

Let's say...10 guys have put in 5x the labor I've put in. You're looking at 51 times the labor I've just described. (Mine is one, theirs is 50.) So... 66 cents divided by 51 is...about 1 1/4 cents per hour.

Is that what you value their contribution? If you think that's too steep, don't buy it.

If you think MikeyD, Charles, Phil, Steve, and all the others who have put in more than I have, should get their labor value at 1 1/4 cents per hour, then trade your $20 of labor (what's that, an hour or two?), for their combined labor.

Or, say that a flat, overcooked, pizza is a more worthy trade for your labor than the guys that made the pack.

If enough folks buy pizza, you won't have to worry about the price of any future pack.

If enough folks buy the pack, you'll have gaming to last a lifetime.

Your choice. Free-ish market.

Ken

You forgot that you have to multiply by the number of purchases over the coming weeks.

Also i should add that i am all for more content beeing released in packs if it does no dilute the units released with futture based games and allows multiplay to be unaffected.

[sburke]

BF after careful consideration of the various points presented by those who think the value represented in the pack is not equal to the value represented in the base games and modules, I have found their arguments to be cogent, well thought out and absolutely on the mark. As a result I have to ask you to raise the price of future base games and modules to make them more consistent.

Back on the subject of food.....

Had an awful day with a company wide network outage that took most of the day to clean up. Missed lunch etc etc and wife was arriving at SFO airport at 9:30 pm. Finished up last conf call at 8:30, hopped in car, get to airport and I have a little time to spare.

Dinner- Airport food - a Cheeseburger and fries (both very mediocre) and a beer. $17 This time I did not ask about the speed or price. They invited me to come back again sometime. So for close to the price of the pack I got a burger and a beer...... the only thing I can say about the burger is it will probably come up again later tonight so it will have outlasted my sandwich experience for $8.