CombatDave Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 For serious tactical wargaming at this scale, yes, they're the only game in town, imho. Truth be told, that is a fact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 How long are you gonna shovel that? If that is the case, then your life is in beta, and so is every friggin' thing ever made that is continuously being developed. Ever buy a car, Windows, Hostess Twinkies? I am now deeply concerned for Hostess Twinkies. Can this be another case of corporate greed like BFC? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I am now deeply concerned for Hostess Twinkies. Can this be another case of corporate greed like BFC? Well there are a lot of comparisons. With the continuing upgrades offered CM now has comparable shelf life.. . . almost. A hostess Twinkie is a helluva lot more fun in the microwave than a CM disc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Then you miss the point, the game is then officially in Beta all the time, if your constantly paying for upgrades. Well if that is what it's called according to your vision of what these priced software changes should be called, then be at peace with it. It is very simple, there are changes to software costing $55,- available at $10,-. The creators of the software and the changes call the $10,- package an upgrade. How is it relevant what (you think) is general consensus in software land about what specific (priced) changes should be called? Heck there isn't even a general consensus. It is fair to criticize if you think the price for a change is too much. Vote with your wallet if you need, but stop thinking that you can bestow your viewpoints upon others especially if they aren't based on sound reasoning and knowledge about the subject. Nobody cares, but I can't always stop myself from calling BS when I read BS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 No. Arguing that the community can't mod things in because "God forbid if it isn't accurate" is idiocy and pure elitism. It doesn't hurt anything to allow modding in absurd things into the game if users want to. There are plenty of good arguments BFC has for why modding isn't in the game. They are all perfectly legitimate ones. Your argument isn't any of those things. Now onto complaining about the price!!! everyone's favorite game! As someone who has already purchased CM:BN the upgrade makes sense for me (although some sort of upgrade all your families bundle should probably be looked into). However, for a new user the current purchasing scheme is confusing and overly complicated. There are currently 17 different purchasing options under the CM:BN store page. Ten of these make no mention of version number. Six make mention of V2.0 (two of which are straight v2.0 upgrades), and one is the v3.0 upgrade. If you just heard about CM:BN from some website or something and came here to purchase something you are almost required to spend hours researching what the hell each of the options are and writing a mini report to adequately understand what each option contained. Some don't say a version number. So are they the newest and most up to date or not at all? Some say v2.0. Do I need v1.0 to get 2.0? Wait there is a v3.0. Isn't that better than 2.0? Why can't I buy that? Do I need to pay for v2.0 before i can get 3.0? Why am I paying for patches? As someone buying the game new I would expect to have the newest update with that purchase. That isn't true at all here. In fact you might be stuck with v1.0. It would make a lot more sense to leave the 2.0 and 3.0 upgrade option for people who own the games already. Then push every game purchased to the 3.0 version so that every new player very clearly gets the most up to date version. It would also help if each store page had a coherent list of what each family had. Long story short the storefront is an absolute mess and the upgrade scheme is only making it more so. The whole system is byzantine. We all love a little bit of hyperbole, you seem to like a lot. Whatever floats your boat. So BF announced a plan to keep all games current (yeah!!!) and they are still struggling to figure out the best way to do that. Your response? Complain. Christ get over it dude, if you thought this was going to be picture perfect than you obviously never gave it much thought what it was they were committing to. Some of us actually work in software industries and had some idea of the headache BF had now committed to. It is going to take time and there will continue to be rough patches. Despite that BF has shown they are serious and for those of us who really want it and appreciate the effort required to follow through, we applaud BF. You want a game you can mod in laser toting dinosaurs, go somewhere else. You can argue till you are blue in the face, it is Steve and Charles company and they say no. You are free to go design your own game, have at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fry30 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Some people don't seem to comprehend what CM is. This isn't 'World of tanks', this is a serious historical tactical simulator. The attention to historical detail is meticulous, as close as a home PC platform will allow. You don't just mod-up a Maus and drop it into the middle of Normandy Because it would be 'fun'. That defeats the whole concept behind the sim. You might as well include dinosaur-mounted laser cannons while you're at it. Heck, they've even reproduced historically accurate sunrise, sunset, the phases of the moon and even star constellations in the sky! You can make out Jupiter in the morning sky in September 9 1943 over Salerno. Yes, you can certainly take what I said and blow it way out of proportion. Or you can look at a game like Close Combat. They're a "niche" community as well. The closest I've seen to what you're describing is a mod called 1946, certainly a "what if" fantasy mod, but well within the confines of what we are trying to do. I've bought those games - in some cases three separate times (1 was a remake and one was a replacement) just to replay certain mods that I loved. All the engines were the same, but they all had their nuances and, again, mods created for them. Please don't talk to me like I'm a lunatic. I wouldn't be spending this much time writing about a game I hate. I want to see it better, but I also don't want to feel like I am being ripped off at every step of the game. When I heard Steve was following some new fangled monetary system, I genuinely thought, "Great; more money being brought in, more games being put out." It sounds more like an outdated business model that might have worked better off in the ASL days. I don't want to pay for things that could easily be sorted out by modders. Skins alone aren't really doing it for me. If you want to go back and forth on this, please do so without taking what I said out context or calling me poor or worse, cheap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Pelican Pal does have some good points. The webstore does need some tidying up to make things more clear for potential buyers. And, like I wrote about above, I do think there should be some sort of discount when buying multiple upgrades - especially when said upgrades (CMFI & CMBN) are released at the same time and bring about the same features for the same game engine (CMx2). It not only would give people more incentive to buy the upgrades but would also be a bit of a reward for people who have been supporters of BF (in my case, I've purchased all but two modules since CMSF was released). I do hope in the future, whenever BF decides to move to a new engine, that they have a better plan to deal with upgrades to multiple titles. A DCS-style system where there's one global "engine" (DCS World) that people could then plug titles of their choosing into may be a better way to go. Believe me, I really like CMRT, CMBN, and CMFI, but the three seem to be strung out a bit too much right now, with certain titles having lagged behind others in terms of content and bug fixes at various times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 @LukeFF. Agreed, but I think folks are getting just a little ahead of themselves. Yes BF has their work cut out for them. I suspect even they weren't/aren't sure what this process will mean. It will likely get even more complicated as they work on multiple game family releases concurrently. How to keep the engine up to date when you potentially have two sets of features to add in a crossover and back porting. I think we all need to just take a deep breath and calm down a bit. Folks act like there is some kind of road map for this and I don't think they realize there really isn't. BF's situation is not directly comparable to any other gaming company I know of and definitely not within this genre. BF is in a learning process. The difficulty of trying to get a uniform process for their base with new installers and how to handle back porting features are just two examples of this being a little more complicated than anyone really understood. From BFs view I expect the installers are a bit more important. It has a direct impact on their help desk and therefore a direct drain on their energy. I expect we are just scratching the surface on the difficulties in back porting features and the pricing model for that is something BF may be wrestling with a lot in the future. As an avid fan of the game and company I appreciate their intent as well as the difficulties they face in implementation. I can afford to be patient. I can't afford for them to fail as a company. This is the only PC game that I can't do without. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 ...BF is in a learning process... That's why I'm taking the time to make sure my feelings on the upgrade package are heard. As a loyal customer and fan, they need to hear when something actually bothers me--since so few things they do fall in that category. It's just meant to be constructive criticism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronCat60 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 There is a lot of work that goes into coding and graphics for a game of this magnitude. I had a neighbor who did this work for Microsoft and he showed me the amount of coding work for a game. It was staggering. Mord said it best, you don't think twice about spending $10.00 on petty, temporary stuff. Ten bucks will buy two 20oz Mocha's double shot with whip on top and a flavor added in Washington state. A hour later your pissing that money into a urinal. But oh wailing and gnashing of teeth because Battlefront charges $10 for a upgrade that will give you endless hours of enjoyment. Read this great post by a administrator and hopefully it will open your eyes. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=116325&highlight=tank+riders&page=5 It's the fifth entry down. "You can't please all of the people all of the time." A. Lincoln Free your mind and your ass will follow! Mech.Gato 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placebo Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Value of upgrades to people is not universal, I have just bought the 3.0 upgrade for CMBN. It was not needed for the game but I wanted to buy my £6 for decals and updated air support. Not good value for money compared to other games DLC but well worth it as A: I can afford it and B: I love the game and want to get the most out of it. I do not understand the constant complaining about the business model BF have, you do not need this 3.0 upgrade to play the game so do not buy it if you do not want it. Surely it is no more complicated than that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I do not understand the constant complaining about the business model BF have, you do not need this 3.0 upgrade to play the game so do not buy it if you do not want it. Surely it is no more complicated than that. Just to point out... If you plan to play other people you generally have to stay up to date which means upgrading. -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Just to point out... If you plan to play other people you generally have to stay up to date which means upgrading. Not really. If you can convince your opponent(s) to maintain an install of ye olde CMxx, which they can do, then you will still be able to play someone who has upgraded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placebo Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Jon, that is a good idea as i have a couple of PBEM games going so that would get me using the update quicker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think it's probably "polite" to keep a copy of your v2.12 CMBN install as it is before you upgrade. It's certainly wise to make one before you hit the "run" button on the setup.exe. Something that would smooth over this particular gripe some would be a launcher that let you select which version from the ones you have installed that you wanted to run. And a way for the games from each version to be distinguished in the game files folder. Not a problem with BN, since its game files folder is within the directory that contains the exe, but for FI and RT with their MS-stupid folder structure... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Steve, I believe it would probably be a good idea to keep the Big Bundle completely up to date, and at the same price point or even lower, so new players always have the option to buy everything with one purchase. So the current CMBN Big Bundle should include the 3.0 Upgrade, IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck97 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 If you don't want hit decals or faster framerate or AA guns firing skyward then don't buy the product. Hello, just a quick question regarding this quote: Is there really an improvement with 3.0 regarding framerate and/or loading times? That would be reason enough for me to upgrade CMBN and CMFI to 3.0 each. Thanks in advance! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hello, just a quick question regarding this quote: Is there really an improvement with 3.0 regarding framerate and/or loading times? That would be reason enough for me to upgrade CMBN and CMFI to 3.0 each. Thanks in advance! Honestly, not that I noticed. But you do get the AA guns that shoot at a/c, and the decals, and the AI triggers. ...and it's $10 bucks which is chump change these days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck97 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Honestly, not that I noticed. But you do get the AA guns that shoot at a/c, and the decals, and the AI triggers. ...and it's $10 bucks which is chump change these days. Okay, thanks for your quick reply. I'll get those upgrades anyway. At least performance won't suffer from it I hope. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 ...and it's $10 bucks which is chump change these days. Yes. $10 *is* chump change. Perhaps it is the whiners that don't understand BFC's majority customer base? $10 is what we spend on coffee and lunch at work five days a week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Honestly, not that I noticed. But you do get the AA guns that shoot at a/c, and the decals, and the AI triggers. ...and it's $10 bucks which is chump change these days. The editor is faster anyway. Love to be able to move on a high level in the editor with speed! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm fine with no mod support. Like I'm not arguing for it. However, there are good arguments for not having and bad arguments. BFC has stated that modding would be a lot of work to setup, cause a possible slew of technical problems and make those problems harder to correct, and eat into their business model. So they aren't going to have it. ^Good argument for why. The other argument is that there wasn't a (insert obscure vehicle) in Normandy at 12:00 o'clock June 20th 1944, and if we allowed modding someone might put it there! And then our precious historical realism will go out the window! How dare anyone have fun that isn't sanctioned by me! ^ This is a bad argument. And I will argue with someone that presents a bad argument for why something isn't included. The way BFC is doing versioning and purchasing/pricing is poor, but they can be engaged separately to an extent. Versioning the software into something more coherent would just make everyone happier. I understand that is a long term thing, but I don't think that means I need to shut up about it. Purchasing and pricing can be bandaged over with some better web design. The versioning system has created a bigger mess for the whole thing, but some intelligent store front design could cover them up pretty well. At the top of any given store page list all the products that are being sold. So: CM:BN CM:CW (CM:BN required) CM:MG (CM:BN and V2.0 required) V2.0 (A upgrade to CM:BN *features*) V3.0 (a upgrade to CM:BN, v2.0 required *features*) The user immediately knows what all is available. Then breakdown the list into coherent groups. Edit: Coffee and Software aren't comparable items. Everyone stop doing it. Please. Like actually. I'll give you an award. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Dollars do compare to dollars though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Edit: Coffee and Software aren't comparable items. Everyone stop doing it. Please. Like actually. I'll give you an award. You're absolutely right. - Coffee is a perishable item that many purchase and drink every day - Software is purchased once and can be used for years And yet, and yet...some people will spend $50-$80 on coffee every month for their daily hours worth of java rush - and then turn around and complain about spending $10 on software that they can use again and and again. And that makes NO sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Because coffee is a perishable it does make sense. When you buy foodstuffs/perishables you know pretty accurately what you are getting and how it will improve your life at that moment. Software (or really any other non-perishable purchase) doesn't provide that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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