3.0 Released!

[Hister]

Did you have 2.12 prior to installing the Upgrade? 2.12 is required.

Martin

Yes I did.

I mistakenly started the game via the old CMBN desctop icon. I was asked to enter serial key which I did. It told me both of my modules (MG and CW) got updated. Then I got into the game and no MG icon in the main menu whilst all save games and scenarios/campaigns related to MG are grayed out.

I exited the game and clicked on new CMBN 3.0 desktop shortcut icon and I was again asked to enter 3.0 serial key which I did but again I got the same result. Hope I didn't lost one additional activation doing that!?

[Moon]

No, reactivating the game from the same PC does not use an activation.

Based on your other response in another thread, your install may be incorrect. Installing 2.0 after Market Garden is not the right way. Please reinstall:

http://battlefront.mojohelpdesk.com/help/article/127908

[Hister]

No, reactivating the game from the same PC does not use an activation.

Based on your other response in another thread, your install may be incorrect. Installing 2.0 after Market Garden is not the right way. Please reinstall:

http://battlefront.mojohelpdesk.com/help/article/127908

I actually have it installed in right order - just gave a wrong tip. I restarted the game for the 3rd time and MG icon showed up! Again, I haven't changed anything besides rerunning the game so something is going on on your side.

[Moon]

That's weird, but I'm not complaining if it works now if it stops working, or becomes intermittent (I.e. It works a few times and then suddenly stops), please submit a ticket at battlefront.mojohelpdesk.com. Make sure to include what OS you have and how much RAM.

Martin

[Hister]

OK, will do if necessary.

[sandman2575]

Hi -- Can I just confirm -- I currently have CMBN/MG v.2.12 and FI/GL v.1.12 installed. If I buy the 3.0 upgrades for CMBN and FI, can I then simply install those over my existing game installs? Or are there other steps involved?

Maybe an obvious issue but the confusion about version numbering is... confusing...

[waclaw]

as for me, the purchase is totally unprofitable - This upgrade should be done as a normal patch. (there is nothing revolutionary - simple patch)

CMBN 55$ + CF 35$ + MG 35$ + 10$ upgrade 2.0 = 135$ - so I spent only CMBN (CMFI/GL 80$)- it seems to me that this upgarde / patch should be issued for free

[Doug Williams]

as for me, the purchase is totally unprofitable - This upgrade should be done as a normal patch. (there is nothing revolutionary - simple patch)

CMBN 55$ + CF 35$ + MG 35$ + 10$ upgrade 2.0 = 135$ - so I spent only CMBN (CMFI/GL 80$)- it seems to me that this upgarde / patch should be issued for free

Allow me to direct you to the appropriate thread for your concerns:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=116220

[Battlefront.com]

Maybe an obvious issue but the confusion about version numbering is... confusing...

I know Someday I hope I can convince the power that is to change the version numbers to something that makes sense to the rest of us. But until then, it is what it is.

as for me, the purchase is totally unprofitable - This upgrade should be done as a normal patch. (there is nothing revolutionary - simple patch)

CMBN 55$ + CF 35$ + MG 35$ + 10$ upgrade 2.0 = 135$ - so I spent only CMBN (CMFI/GL 80$)- it seems to me that this upgarde / patch should be issued for free

When you go to work I assume you show up on time, you do the work that is asked of you, you aren't able to do other things with your time, and there are others relying upon you to do what needs to be done. I'm sure not everything you do is "revolutionary", so perhaps your boss shouldn't pay you for all that work. Sounds unfair, doesn't it? That's because it is.

Steve

[ratdeath]

Upgraded CMFI and CMBN

I am happy to pay $10 for each family to keep them up to date with the latest features.

Hoping for a pack/module with flamethrower units and ridable tanks

[waclaw]

I know Someday I hope I can convince the power that is to change the version numbers to something that makes sense to the rest of us. But until then, it is what it is.

When you go to work I assume you show up on time, you do the work that is asked of you, you aren't able to do other things with your time, and there are others are relying upon you to do what needs to be done. I'm sure not everything you do is "revolutionary", so perhaps your boss shouldn't pay you for all that work. Sounds unfair, doesn't it? That's because it is.

Steve

but I have already paid for this "upgrade" by buying .................. CMRT, why should I pay three times more for the same thing?

the problem is with the nomenclature - for me it is payable patch - you call it an "upgrade" (marketing sounds a lot better) - for me it is semantics - simply, Call a spade a spade.

on CMFI / CMBN / CMRT I spent 280 bucks (even though I knew that I will not be have time to be played - treat it as a support for the series) - for those customers who buy all the games of the series, along with the modules I gave them the "upgrade / patch" for free - rewarding them for their loyalty.

[Fizou]

but I have already paid for this "upgrade" by buying .................. CMRT, why should I pay three times more for the same thing?

the problem is with the nomenclature - for me it is payable patch - you call it an "upgrade" (marketing sounds a lot better) - for me it is semantics - simply, Call a spade a spade.

on CMFI / CMBN / CMRT I spent 280 bucks (even though I knew that I will not be have time to be played - treat it as a support for the series) - for those customers who buy all the games of the series, along with the modules I gave them the "upgrade / patch" for free - rewarding them for their loyalty.

Because its not only work done for CMRT, they also have to spend time and resources to have this ported to CMFI and CMBN. Easy..

What I do hope is that tank riders will be added via a pack or something later on. Charge what it costs to implement but please dont leave it out.

[A Canadian Cat]

Ooops... Suddenly, my MG module started working - for no reason that I can see. However, my MG games are back.

Hope Hister's comes back too.

Glad to hear things are working for you guys. I found a similar thing - after installing the initial launch had the MG stuff greyed out. I shut down and restarted and all was well.

[A Canadian Cat]

but I have already paid for this "upgrade" by buying .................. CMRT, why should I pay three times more for the same thing?

Are you serious? Do you not understand that the normal way things go in the gaming industry is that CMBN would be released and patched for a while and then that would be that, nothing more, ever, for that game. Done.

Any other company out there would be offering us CMRT all shiny and new and leave CMBN and CMFI alone, never to get any improvements. You make it sound like there is no work to be done to release new features in CMBN and CMFI but nothing could be further from the truth.

I for one applaud BFC's efforts and appreciate their work.

[Macisle]

but I have already paid for this "upgrade" by buying .................. CMRT, why should I pay three times more for the same thing?

the problem is with the nomenclature - for me it is payable patch - you call it an "upgrade" (marketing sounds a lot better) - for me it is semantics - simply, Call a spade a spade...

Gosh, my new Honda has more features than my old one. I want those same features added to my old Honda, but the bastages at the dealership actually want me to PAY for them. They say my request is an "upgrade." Baloney, I say. They can play all they want with words, but I say this is just like a recall and I should get those new features for free.

Darn it, I already PAID for my old Honda. Any time a new model comes out with additional features and I buy it, I should get all the new features put on my old cars by Honda for free.

They can talk all the gibberish they want about "upgrades." These would all be recalls.

I mean, hey: I call a spade a spade!

[Whiterider]

Any other company out there would be offering us CMRT all shiny and new and leave CMBN and CMFI alone, never to get any improvements. You make it sound like there is no work to be done to release new features in CMBN and CMFI but nothing could be further from the truth.

I for one applaud BFC's efforts and appreciate their work.

Totally agree.

[Toblakai]

Are there some (small) bugs fixed or is it "just" an upgrade with new features?

[Vanir Ausf B]

I don't know for sure, but I am assuming that the hull down spotting disadvantage bugs are fixed in the 3.0 upgrade.

[Battlefront.com]

but I have already paid for this "upgrade" by buying .................. CMRT, why should I pay three times more for the same thing?

So your argument is that since CMBN Upgrade 3.0 released in 2014 is *EXACTLY* the same as v1.0 released in 2011, you should not have to pay anything extra? Well, that is true. To use the v1.0 version you purchased 3 years ago you do not have to pay a thing. To use the version of the game you DID NOT purchase in 2011, there is a small charge for the extra features and continued support.

the problem is with the nomenclature - for me it is payable patch - you call it an "upgrade" (marketing sounds a lot better) - for me it is semantics - simply, Call a spade a spade.

We are... it's an Upgrade. Patches are things that fix or make small tweaks to existing features. Upgrades are things that add new functionality or significantly change basic behavior. It is standard software terminology that has been used for about 20+ years.

on CMFI / CMBN / CMRT I spent 280 bucks (even though I knew that I will not be have time to be played - treat it as a support for the series) - for those customers who buy all the games of the series, along with the modules I gave them the "upgrade / patch" for free - rewarding them for their loyalty.

You are rewarded for your loyalty by us providing a very inexpensive way to keep up with improvements. Specifically, we do not require you to repurchase the whole game ($55) or have your investment die of old age. These are the two standard behaviors in the games industry, but not for other applications such as Word, PhotoShop, OSes, etc. Those products all sell Upgrades at a discount to loyal customers, just like we do.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Because its not only work done for CMRT, they also have to spend time and resources to have this ported to CMFI and CMBN. Easy..

Correct. These things don't just happen. In fact, the effort to produce Upgrades is significant. If there was no reimbursement of our expenses by customers we wouldn't make them. Which would mean that when you spend $100+ on a Base Game with some Modules your game would progressively get older and more outdated each year compared to the new games being released. To "upgrade" you'd have to repurchase the whole thing from scratch. Which totally sucks from a customer's standpoint. Hence the Upgrade offer

What I do hope is that tank riders will be added via a pack or something later on. Charge what it costs to implement but please dont leave it out.

Unfortunately the scope of work for tank riders was too massive to be included in a $10 Upgrade. Each model plus (IIRC) 2 LODs has to be hand tweaked by a 3D artist, hand coded by Charles, and tested for problems. There are always problems (guys sitting above the deck, into the turret, facing the wrong direction, using the wrong animations, etc.) because placing these hotspots is more art than science. The assuredness that a certain number of hotspots will need some tweak or several means the development cycle is repeated for a subset of the total number of changes. To give you some understanding of the process we go through...

From memory there is about 200 vehicle models between CMBN and CMFI. If we figure an average of 10 "hotspots" for soldiers per vehicle (some have more some have less), that's a total of 2000 hotspots that have to be created for the base models, times 3 to include the LODs. That means about 6000 hotspots have to be added, coded, tested, and tweaked before we're done. Knock the workload down by a small bit because there are a few models that are 100% the same between releases or nations (there's still some work to do, just not as much) and exclude the vehicles that don't need the feature at all. Oh, let's say 5000 hotspots. I dunno what each hotspot averages out to in terms of work, but 3 minutes each is probably very conservative. That means the cost of an Upgrade has to cover 250 hours of labor just for this one feature, plus the other features, plus the other testing, plus the sales related expenses, plus the "opportunity cost", plus our risk, plus profit.

Are you serious? Do you not understand that the normal way things go in the gaming industry is that CMBN would be released and patched for a while and then that would be that, nothing more, ever, for that game. Done.

Any other company out there would be offering us CMRT all shiny and new and leave CMBN and CMFI alone, never to get any improvements.

This is the standard games industry behavior. Partly it is defendable because very often the sequels are more-or-less a ground up new game or have had so much new work done they are effectively new games. Something like Halo 2 is nothing like Halo 1 and Halo 3 is wildly different than the other two. We do not do that sort of radical overhaul each game because a) it isn't necessary, we couldn't afford to, and c) none of you wants to wait 3 years between releases. The game is $55 which means after *5* Upgrades you will have spent as much as the Halo 1 guy did when he bought Halo 2. And for sure if you look at the feature changes in *2* Upgrades for CM already, I think it will be hard to argue that after 5 that CM won't look and feel radically different from 5 versions earlier.

I don't know for sure, but I am assuming that the hull down spotting disadvantage bugs are fixed in the 3.0 upgrade.

Anything fixed/tweaked in previous versions is carried over to other patches/Upgrades automatically unless it involves specific changes to models, scenarios, or requires new units. In the case of Upgrade 3, this means tank riders, AI Triggers, and flamethrowers are not automatically available with the Upgrade. They can, however, be introduced either by players (AI Triggers) or through Unit Packs (flamethrowers). Model changes that aren't significant usually get rolled into patches/Upgrades, but sometimes it's not a good fit. For now, tank riders isn't a good fit. We're contemplating a solution for that.

Steve

[m0317624]

You are rewarded for your loyalty by us providing a very inexpensive way to keep up with improvements. Specifically, we do not require you to repurchase the whole game ($55) or have your investment die of old age. These are the two standard behaviors in the games industry, but not for other applications such as Word, PhotoShop, OSes, etc. Those products all sell Upgrades at a discount to loyal customers, just like we do.

Steve

I think the main problem many customers have with this paid engine upgrade system is threefold.

First there is no other company in the industry who does it this way. Engine upgrades are either free patches, part of expansion packs/DLC or in the form of re-releases with reduced price for existing customers. No company outside BF actually charges for them separately. Being different, whether good or bad, attracts complaints by itself.

Secondly, this is beginning to become a problem due to the many different main lines BF is releasing. A customer who bought every CM family line now has to spend $20 upgrading the two older titles. When Black Sea will be released, he will likely have to spend $30 upgrading the three older titles. And so on. These upgrades are not optional, all newly developed content for said titles depends on them. A better solution would be to either have one free main engine with loads of paid interdependent modules (such as modern flight simulators do) and occasional paid engine upgrades, or to give the customer one single price to update all of his family lines instead of charging extra for each additional game family.

The third problem is that, right now, this upgrade isn't really worth $10 except for hardcore fans or those with a lot of disposable income. It's a few graphics upgrades, some gameplay changes (AAA fire, spotters, ROF) which might produce balance problems with existing scenarios, three UI tweaks and a bunch of support for future content. Of the three main game changers, AAA fire, tank riders and flame weapons, two are not implemented yet and one will be very rarely seen in existing content. Until BF releases content for the older titles that utilizes half the features of this upgrade, I see little use in buying it. And then I can likely buy it half-price as part of a bundle.

[AlexUK]

Thanks Steve, I think it is always helpful to get an idea of what is involved with working the upgrade. I am guessing that some people are thinking that it is simply a case of copying and pasting code from the already upgraded family. One way of diffusing the rows over the cost of upgrades may be to be more open up front of what was required for the upgrade.

[DaddyO]

this upgrade isn't really worth $10

I dunno, command links by itself is a big deal for me. I admit not having tank riders will be disappointing, but after listening to Battlefront's explanation I think I understand their point of view. In the end, if they didn't do something to recoup their costs of development we would just have old versions dying on the vine.

We all got what we paid for, it's just a bit confusing because I misunderstood how it worked. I had been figuring all along I would just buy Red Thunder to get the engine upgrade, which would apply to all titles. I figured wrong, and now I understand why.

[db_zero]

Honestly the 3.0 upgrade doesn't really excite me all that much. I'll eventually get to it, but not until I finish h2h games.

Some have said AT guns were tweaked in RT. If so then that may be one worthwhile change.

Personally I would have preferred to see a 3.0 update for Shock Force and Afghanistan. A target briefly and graphics upgrade for SF would have been completely worth it-even if Black Sea eventually makes an appearance.

[togi]

Hello BFC team,

CMBN is infested the shadow bug that had seen lastly in CMRT.

I couldn't have played RT with shadows , now also BN. The vehicle looks darker like under the shadow at open field with no reason suddenly .

So please make something to solve this issue ,

note: I don't want to wait additional four moths for this known issue. As you know we are still waiting for four months for RT

thanks