Scrummage Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Reading about the Italian squads being "the size of platoons" i was wondering how literally i should take this. A 40 men unit is an awfully big maneuvering unit, even if broken up in smaller "teams". It sounds interesting enough, i would to play with an "underdog" nation like Italy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Italian squads are 20 men. Now, having 20 men in one Combat Mission Squad is obviously ridiculous from a game play perspective. What we've done is made the squad the CM-equivalent of a section, with two squads of 9 men and a HQ of 2 that contains the squad leader. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrummage Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 So gameplay wise nothing really changes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 A whole lot changes actually. The rifle platoon has two of these squads, and the platoon contains nothing heavier than a few Breda M30 LMGs which have to reload every 20 rounds, and the rest of the small arms almost entirely consist of rifles. The company doesn't have heavy weapons either. It's just rifles. You have to go to the battalion support company to find HMGs and light mortars. There are also zero radios. None at all. Makes command and control quite interesting. Combine that with typically lower experience and motivation, and you've got a unit that handles very, very differently from a US or German formation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Even with all the men those poor italians are undergunned - with their bolt action rifle and low power bullet, and not a smg in sight. That is, unless they find themselves up against a U.S. all Springfield rifle unit who haven't been issued Garands yet. Then it 20 bolt action rifles versus 11 bolt action rifles... and a B.A.R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 One of the "sections" in the squad has two Breda LMGs, and the squad leader has a chance for an SMG, so an Italian squad is not just 20 rifles. But of course those LMGs were total crap... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Hmm, CM:PTO may just have found a new base army to use for the Japanese.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Hmm, CM:PTO may just have found a new base army to use for the Japanese.... LOL man you are always thinking aren't you? Glad to see it. Sounds like the models for the pixeltruppen are significantly different as well and may hopefully offer more options. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 LOL man you are always thinking aren't you? Glad to see it. Sounds like the models for the pixeltruppen are significantly different as well and may hopefully offer more options. Face it, BFC is going to do PTO, sometime...after today's news and information, it's clear that their stock is rising, or they are getting really focused, or both. But they are cranking, compared to the long slow build since CMSF came out. CMBN sales must have been very good, and that's good news to me! In the mean time, your mods are really going to spice up CMBN. I already have tried them out, and am building a map for myself. Way cool! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Which of course would be a gateway to The Nam...and then I could die. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I'll be very happy when War in Pacific is released - by that time agme improvements should really be impressive! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I'll be very happy when War in Pacific is released I would recommend not waiting that long 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Which of course would be a gateway to The Nam...and then I could die. Mord. You and me both. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Which of course would be a gateway to The Nam...and then I could die. Actually, you could die now and avoid the wait. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think the best way to think of the Italian Squad is a REALLY weak German Rifle Platoon with yet one more level of C2 to attempt to maintain. Normal C2 Company -> Platoon ->Squad/Team Italian C2 Company -> Platoon -> Section (real world a Squad) -> Squad/Team (real world a Team) Even if the Italians had radios, this longer chain of command would present difficulties for players. Trying to get higher level support, for example, now has one more point of failure. On top of this, the Italians are forced to keep their Squads (size of Platoons, remember) closer together in order to provide effective mutual support. That's because they are armed like WW1 units as well as sized like WW1 units. Volume of fire back in WW1 was achieved by mass of rifles, not rate of fire from automatic weapons. Tactical flexibility in WW1 was therefore far more limited and it's why most nations broke away from this model before the outbreak of WW2. Apparently the Italians didn't get the memo Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorgath Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Do you have to maintain C2 with telephone wires too? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Normal C2 Company -> Platoon ->Squad/Team Italian C2 Company -> Platoon -> Section (real world a Squad) -> Squad/Team (real world a Team) Given that, as of CMBN, the chain-of-command section of the UI accommodates no more than four levels (from top to bottom: squad > platoon > company > battalion), does the greater number of C2 levels with the Italians mean that the corresponding part of the UI is different in CMFI? Or is the Italians' structure different enough that it actually can fit within the existing four-level UI? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 No, the Section level is in CMBN as well. Look for it mostly in the Heavy Weapons formations. Therefore, it's not a new thing for CMBN (but was new for that release) in general terms. However, it is not a common thing to see in CMBN and wasn't ever used for basic "rifle" formations. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Even with all the men those poor italians are undergunned - with their bolt action rifle and low power bullet, and not a smg in sight. That is, unless they find themselves up against a U.S. all Springfield rifle unit who haven't been issued Garands yet. Then it 20 bolt action rifles versus 11 bolt action rifles... and a B.A.R. Does this mean a US squad with Springfields is possible for a unit with a poor equipment rating? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Does this mean a US squad with Springfields is possible for a unit with a poor equipment rating? Yes Padding 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 If I can recover my stuff a friend's supposed to be watching for me (before his life went into the toilet on the other coast), I have the Italian module for Avalon Hill's "Up Front" card game. Frankly, I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I first saw them played. I used to think the Japanese had big squads. Verged on the surreal! I recall a ROW battle in which the fight was so intense my teniente storming a trench actually killed a Brit with his Glisenti pistol. Also, I think it takes brave men to crew an ATG entirely devoid of a gunshield. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Yes Padding I don't even want to think of what went through our modder communities heads when they saw this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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