Pete Wenman

You could very well be right regarding the SBF positions. However I'd expect Bil not to target his artillery on a hunch, also not sure about the call in time or how the cluster artillery even works exactly. 
What we do know is that both are indeed looking at the same flank, while Capt plans to advance (through the open?) and Bil seems to be preparing for an enemy push there. Or, at least he seems to be setting up some TOW M113s against that flank, has some tanks already in place there and ordered the second tank platoon to the same flank but out of sight. 
So I'm not sure he will be surprised if Capt pushes full strength there, he's sort of expecting it it seems to me. 
I'll guess for the outcome of the armour fight, a lot depends on artillery; Capt has ordered strikes on the crest while I suspect Bil wil also try to use his own (he's quite a lot). 
Not too worried about the infantry, if Soviet squads are 6men each like CMBS / Syrian CMSF2, I'm not sure how big of the difference is regarding infantry strength. Plus Bil has enough artillery to barrage the town. 
I think the winner of the armour enagement will decide who has the upperhand with infantry fighting for the town. 
But, I think it's difficult to be accurate without having seen the map in CM for ourselves. 

Lol - you could be right though
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I too like others think the lack of infantry will hurt Bil.
Yes if his tanks can survive they can have a go at destroying them, but once you have the infantry in buildings away from the edges of the village then it gets a lot harder as you then risk your vehicles to hand held AT.
The Capt seems to be prepared to walk infantry spread out down to the village?
I am looking forward to learning about the effects of DPICM on armour and that will only work if you can get it on target, often easier said than done.
My first understanding of this period of conflict was playing in the 80's with micro armour and using the WRG rules on table top.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargames_Research_Group
And just recently I played World at War Storming the Gap 85
https://store.lnlpublishing.com/world-at-war-85-series
This was being taught on TTS and allowed me to play the game with the designer. Excellent Table Top game and reminded me how the first M1 was no super tank as my tanks got taken out....
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2141595623
Really glad that times have changed and this period has now become fashionable and hence a market for folk to spend money on.
I think it is in part down to folk like me who were kids in that age, computer literate and with disposable income to relive their childhoods. Just seeing the number of people saying how they served in Germany and are up for this shows the demand I think (hope)...
🙂
 
 
 

Cheers Mate - While I'm probably biased I think some of the maps in game (and not just mine) are top notch, and on the large side.
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Having made the map for this, I've got a good insight into the terrain.
The village sits in the valley bottom but Bil has covered routes through the woods into the village from his side, while Capt has to cover a lot of open fields to actually get there.
I think it is a clever move for him to already have infantry moving to the village as Bil can only really engage them with his own scouts of which he doesn't have many, or his M60's with HE. Neither is an attractive option for him, nor one his force is well suited to given armour dominates on both side. If Capt can get a foothold then all his other units can remain in the treeline and cover the village by fire so denying it to Bil. The reverse also applies for Bil but I think his lack of troopers here make it hard for him.
My money is on Capt (at least for the moment)
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Cheers @Holien for starting the thread, and @Pete Wenman for sharing the map source (and the mapping work which we all will be enjoying soon enough). Having the maps helped me heaps to wrap my head around the AAR.
Bil's force doesn't seem to have much heft to hold ground. So my guess is that he expects to be killing lots of Soviet infantry (and tanks) before they can dismount with his arty and attack helicopters. All he needs is to stall Warren's attack long enough to pour molten lead on the heads of his enemies, and even the odds.
Much can go wrong with that.
Warren's proposition is much simpler and robust, in my opinion. Depends less on what Bill can or will do (and that would be the point, to render Bil's decisions irrelevant due to overwhelming local force ratios in his favour).
So in the spirit of those late 1970s manuals @akdhas been digging out, I would say Bill has a success probability of 0.3.

@Pete Wenman, having fought on this map about 6 times (or more?) in the testing process, I have to publicly extol your map-making skills: this one is great!
The LOS are tricky, due to the elevations and woods. When Bil comes out of the woods on his right, at the base of the valley, he will be exposed to the The_Capt's base of fire in the woodline. Both wood lines: on either side of the highway bridge.
Conversely, where Bil set up his TOW launcher (the M150 that got hit) that hull-down position is great for overwatch on the open area on Bil's right, from the valley bottom UP to The_Capt's left-flank woods.
It looks to me like there's gonna be a knife fight down in the valley.
 

Gotta add this: the period depicted is awesome. Meaning, literally, filling one with awe. The amount of arty and air and the damage they can inflict, as well as the numbers involved, and the Soviet T-64 vs the M48/early M60, new ATGMs, makes every encounter a very touch-and-go event. If you get cocky...you die. And once the dying starts, it just keeps going.
Look at how any vehicle spotted in this AAR has died. Sure, they're just BMPs and M113s, but the accuracy and deadly effect of munitions...and the number of shooters...is what makes this a well-balanced period. Soviet numbers are offset by the assumption that they'd be attacking. The equipment is balanced: it's up to the user to make the difference.
DPICM must be seen to be believed.
On this AAR: it seems like Bil is falling for The_Capt's razzle-dazzle. Of course, of anyone, Bil will suss it out soon enough and be in a very balanced position to parry it. (At least, that's my assumption.  )
 

Having made the map for this, I've got a good insight into the terrain.
The village sits in the valley bottom but Bil has covered routes through the woods into the village from his side, while Capt has to cover a lot of open fields to actually get there.
I think it is a clever move for him to already have infantry moving to the village as Bil can only really engage them with his own scouts of which he doesn't have many, or his M60's with HE. Neither is an attractive option for him, nor one his force is well suited to given armour dominates on both side. If Capt can get a foothold then all his other units can remain in the treeline and cover the village by fire so denying it to Bil. The reverse also applies for Bil but I think his lack of troopers here make it hard for him.
My money is on Capt (at least for the moment)
P

Difficult to say as armour dominates in most of the stuff I've played. This is a real combined arms affair, and so infantry are just part of the puzzle. In simple terms most/all infantry is mechanised  and so this affects how things play out. In addition artillery and air support often features in high volumes (real "air land battle" stuff). I was working on a small scenario that was mainly infantry only but that's on hold as I work on other stuff. I might get it finished in time for release but there is a lot of stuff going down at the moment. 
One example of how infantry plays out though as a teaser - A US mech plt defending a small hill, can put up good fight against a BMP2 plt attack with tank support if the US player is canny. However if the Soviet player hits the position with cluster munitions as a prelude to the attack its not unusual to see the platoon pretty much destroyed. So good tactics and co-ordination are the real key, perhaps in a way the game has not really seen before due to the peer level tech.
P

Difficult to say as armour dominates in most of the stuff I've played. This is a real combined arms affair, and so infantry are just part of the puzzle. In simple terms most/all infantry is mechanised  and so this affects how things play out. In addition artillery and air support often features in high volumes (real "air land battle" stuff). I was working on a small scenario that was mainly infantry only but that's on hold as I work on other stuff. I might get it finished in time for release but there is a lot of stuff going down at the moment. 
One example of how infantry plays out though as a teaser - A US mech plt defending a small hill, can put up good fight against a BMP2 plt attack with tank support if the US player is canny. However if the Soviet player hits the position with cluster munitions as a prelude to the attack its not unusual to see the platoon pretty much destroyed. So good tactics and co-ordination are the real key, perhaps in a way the game has not really seen before due to the peer level tech.
P

Just to add I think you will really like it. Plenty of cool moments already and some of the campaign battles and scenarios are real corkers !
P

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like we can expect both main forces to run into each other in a nice clash of steel that the Capt might win due to his overwhelming firepower advantage. My read of the coming manoeuvres:
https://imgur.com/scpRyd
I'm not sure Bil is expecting a large push over the southern part of the valley, so it'll be interesting to see if he sniffs it out in time.

It would definitely be an interesting strat if the Capt decides to use his infantry as M60 bait.

Having made the map for this, I've got a good insight into the terrain.
The village sits in the valley bottom but Bil has covered routes through the woods into the village from his side, while Capt has to cover a lot of open fields to actually get there.
I think it is a clever move for him to already have infantry moving to the village as Bil can only really engage them with his own scouts of which he doesn't have many, or his M60's with HE. Neither is an attractive option for him, nor one his force is well suited to given armour dominates on both side. If Capt can get a foothold then all his other units can remain in the treeline and cover the village by fire so denying it to Bil. The reverse also applies for Bil but I think his lack of troopers here make it hard for him.
My money is on Capt (at least for the moment)
P

If this ever makes it into CM can this be included please?
 

Thanks to @Pete WenmanI can link the pictures to places in the map. My guess is that you're preparing to advance on the town with your right flank, and also covering your back. You're moving your armor to what to me looks like a very safe FUP. It also incidentally would be a good position for your armor to be part of a KZ. If I am not wrong, you're moving them to what looks like a hamlet with a few buildings and a treeline, with possible keyholed battle positions. Not sure who are the dismounts on your right flank, but I presume they are taking with them their Dragon missiles.

Apologies to all... here is the last half of the GIF that did not play properly in my turn 8 report.  Evidently three ATGMs were fired at this M-150.. two if which hit.

The Eighth Minute post updated as well.

Hi all, really looking forward to this module. I served in BAOR from 1983 - 1988, so a little after this initial release. From my time at least i would say one of the main concerns was NBC warfare, not so much Nuclear at this stage but definitely Biological and Gas. I would estimate we spent about 80% of the time whilst on Exercise in our NBC suits.
Nobody really knew what was going to happen, but initially there would of been a big fear of Chemical warfare, it would be good if this could be simulated somehow. i know at the time that any smoke, cloud, mist etc i saw and i would of had my mask on pronto.
Training in NBC gear was extremely tiring and cumbersome, especially in the Summer months so even if reduced visibility, higher exhaustion etc could be modelled.
I'm on the right in the picture below, taken about 85, with a typical bit of squaddie humour 😉. I see if i can find anything more relevant, i think i still have the old 'Survive To Fight' pamphlet in the loft.
cheers all 
 
 

all this ^^ plus you'd need a new death animation, as you shake, sh*t and vomit yourself to death.  When three combi pens is not enough and four will kill you.
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I hope Bil doesn't mind but the evolution of the Dollbach map. Note the map image predates the autobahn and bridge. It also gives an overview of the battlefield for those that like that kind of detail

P
 

You guys are determined to be tricky about this NBC thing aren't you?
Trust me, it is no fun and as it is Feb 24 in Australia, here is me (vehicle commander in the helmet) 30 years ago in Australian time, 29 years ago and one day in the time zones that most forumites are probably living in, wearing an NBC suit about 10 minutes before we launched across the Iraqi border ... because yes it was that long ago ...

We spent three days in that kit and that is nothing compared to having the overboots, gloves and respirators on.  Want to see how much fun it is ....
Communicating .... put your COVID mask on.  Put a pair of gloves on and put a pair of washing up gloves on over the top.  Now try dialing a telephone number and speaking and being understood over that phone.
Writing ... as above but pick up a pen and paper and then try and write down what you can hear from your telephone call.
Using a keyboard ... as above.
Marking a map ... as above but also put on a diving mask.
Shooting accurately - COVID mask, diving goggles and two pairs of gloves - in your own time carry on.
Anything physical ... put on your normal clothes, then put another layer on, add COVID mask, diving goggles, both pairs of gloves and just try and do anything.
Or go for the full option - dare I call it 'Iron' with all of the above activities - COVID mask, diving mask, two pairs of gloves and twice the amount of clothes you'd normally wear.
Don't forget to check that your gloves, mask and goggles are on properly at all times and readjust them as necessary.
When you have done all of the above, you will see that there are more soft factors to be adjusted to simulate NBC than those being suggested.
So it might be 'cool' it might be reflective of the era and I do support the use of chemical weapons as an inclusion in the game as I know this would have been the most likely scenario in a tactical environment; however, it isn't going to happen as @Bil Hardenbergerhas pointed out.
 

That tracks, somewhat-
Victim is a new term for having extra time to create more stuff- since the mid-2010's, if I track back to when we first started laying down the foundational ideas. It's always been BFC's timeline, but our relatively small but powerful team kept it going and thriving until they said "stop".
Two games, at once. A good thing.
There was no overlap that would create stalls between these two modules, though some of us transitioned to the modern game when done (and I have given some advice to the modern team gleaned from F&R experience). There aren't a lot of us, but there are enough for two fully functioning teams to work somewhat independently (as you now see).
F&R will stand on its own merits. It is a monster of a module.

Oh there is plenty of air in game, the problem is most of it is attacking you !
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Not really answering your question, but the issue with ATGMs in game is one of their flight time. Its not unusual to be seeing missile flight times of 10-15 seconds, which is a long time when every second counts. If the launcher can be brought under kinetic fire while the missile is in flight there is a good chance it can be killed before it's own round strikes. It seems much more noticeable in CW than previous titles.
It's an interesting dynamic and really ups the tension
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