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Frustrated by this recent CMCW announcement . . .


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BUT not for the reasons you would probably think. I finally came back to Combat Mission after a very long break and decided go all in on Red Thunder. I'm not a late war fan but figured I could finagle the design of some Crimean Offensive scenarios and maybe a campaign (April-May 1944). I have spent the last month researching like mad, putting my OCD to the test, even learning to translate a few bits and pieces on Russian maps. Now I need to put all that work on hold and start working on Cold War research/design ideas. If nothing else I guess that gives me until sometime in April to get at least a scenario for CMRT designed, tested and released.

All I have to say is, this CMCW better be the cat's meow.  😁 In all seriousness though, I know I won't be disappointed. 

For motivation for me to kick things into high gear, here is the current CMRT map I'm working on (800m x 640m). It's taking forever because I'm really trying to flesh it out with flavor objects . . . . 

 

crimean_crunch.jpg

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The coming CMRT 'Fire and Rubble' module is the cat's meow, too. Its (almost) too bad the Cold War announcement is stealing its thunder somewhat. Buy both! If not immediately, then with a decent interval between the two. The games ain't going anywhere.

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4 hours ago, MikeyD said:

The coming CMRT 'Fire and Rubble' module is the cat's meow, too. Its (almost) too bad the Cold War announcement is stealing its thunder somewhat. Buy both! If not immediately, then with a decent interval between the two. The games ain't going anywhere.

The timing of release of Cold War is very bad and typical for the way Fire and Rubble has been handled the past years. 

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16 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

The timing of release of Cold War is very bad and typical for the way Fire and Rubble has been handled the past years. 

I totally see the logic behind doing CM:CW and think it will be a huge hit. However, I agree on the timing. CM:FR is so close. Why not let it get out the door before sucking all of the oxygen out of the room? Especially after all the delays...seems a bit of a kick in the nuts.

I guess it boils down to Steam. My understanding is that CM:FR won't be released there until RT makes it to Steam in a few quarters. So, my guess is that the structural pieces and market big picture where such that BF and Slitherine decided the initial buzz loss for CM:FR was worth the positive impact of a brand new CM title on Steam + BF's store.

I won't be getting both right away. I'll pick up FR on day one and save CW for a possible purchase in the future.

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1 hour ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

I think the two are connected. Because CM:FR doesn't have a deadline and CM:CW has a very definite deadline, resources are flowing from FR to CW and I would not be surprised if CW comes out first.

Neither would I.

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6 minutes ago, Macisle said:

I'll still hold my money and wait for CM:FR.  CW is a maybe down the road.

I've already pre-ordered CMFR. CW is a big promise for the future, but for me especially when the other NATO-armies join the fray. I think many Europeans think the same, but I will buy CW, as I bought all CM games, to support this company.

I hope the release of CW announces a new era with more and quicker releases of games and modules. Perhaps the co-operation with Slitherine will make that possible. It's high time things are gonna change in that respect.

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2 hours ago, Macisle said:

guess it boils down to Steam. My understanding is that CM:FR won't be released there until RT makes it to Steam in a few quarters. So, my guess is that the structural pieces and market big picture where such that BF and Slitherine decided the initial buzz loss for CM:FR was worth the positive impact of a brand new CM title on Steam + BF's store.

giphy.gif

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I don't own RT yet, it is the only CMx2 title I have yet to pick up. I was considering it for after F&R drops but now I am most certainly going to use this part of the years gaming budged on CW. Dream come true really, but I will get to buying them all eventually.

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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I've already pre-ordered CMFR. CW is a big promise for the future, but for me especially when the other NATO-armies join the fray. I think many Europeans think the same, but I will buy CW, as I bought all CM games, to support this company.

I hope the release of CW announces a new era with more and quicker releases of games and modules. Perhaps the co-operation with Slitherine will make that possible. It's high time things are gonna change in that respect.

Big-picture-wise, CW hits a lot of key points. To name just a few:

  • Offers a completely new title on Steam at a time when the CM line is making itself known to a new audience there.
  • Introduces younger players less interested in WWII to the world of CM via a title that offers relatively modern combat in a very balanced form, faction-wise (unlike BS and SF).
  • Offers Cold War-era CM to all the older players from the age group that remembers it at a time when that includes potential customers from BOTH sides of the conflict.
  • Helps establish CM on Steam faster and more solidly at a time when competition is likely increasing and modern is eclipsing WWII as an interest area.

So, from a business standpoint, it's the right move fer sure. But, it would be dishonest to say that the timing is what you would normally want for a new module like CM:FR and the folks that have been waiting for it. It's obviously a sacrifice of the lesser for the greater. I'd make the same decision if I were BF, but that doesn't change the fact that a certain trade-off was made at the expense of FR.

38 minutes ago, Freyberg said:

They both sound very cool - I'll buy them both and I don't care which one comes out first.

Yes, they both look to be excellent and I am excited about both titles. But, I'll only be buying one initially and don't mind waiting for the one I most want, which is FR.

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I think @Macisle makes some good points. 

do think there's an imperative to get a World War 2 combat mission onto Steam, because it is still a popular genre that has a lot of fans. But, with June 6th coming up, we can probably take a guess as to which WW2-era combat mission will be coming first. So I think that's probably also at play, I wouldn't be surprised if they're also doing work to get Combat Mission: BN ready for Steam integration and that too may be sapping resources from RT.

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1 minute ago, Sprocketman said:

I think @Macisle makes some good points. 

do think there's an imperative to get a World War 2 combat mission onto Steam, because it is still a popular genre that has a lot of fans. But, with June 6th coming up, we can probably take a guess as to which WW2-era combat mission will be coming first. So I think that's probably also at play, I wouldn't be surprised if they're also doing work to get Combat Mission: BN ready for Steam integration and that too may be sapping resources from RT.

Thanks. I agree on WWII still being very popular. I'm very much a WWII gamer myself. I just think I'm seeing a natural shift towards more current as time moves on.

IIRC (and sorry if I'm wrong), BN is slated to be the first WWII title to hit Steam. That makes total sense. It's got the most content and it's Western front -- which is where the money is. Steve has said so many times, while acknowledging the passion of Eastern front fans. So, until Russian gamers start outspending Americans for targeted WWII content, if something's got to give, it's going to be Eastern front.

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I actually think the WWII interest waxes and wanes.

If the FPS genre is anything to go by, seven or eight years ago the fad was futuristic shooters with jetpacks and wall running and exosuit nonsense. Then the industry found renewed interest in the past, with Battlefield releasing a WW1 and then a WW2 shooter, and Call of Duty releasing its own WW2 shooter in-between. Now you (correctly) perceive the interest as trending more modern with Call of Duty Black Ops (Cold War era), and Call of Duty Modern Warfare being the latest big ticket shooter titles - and the next Battlefield is rumored to be modern-set as well.

My rambling point is that I don't think it's a permanent shift where WW2 interest is doomed to decline, but instead cyclical. Hopefully in a few years we'll see interest in World War-era games on the ascent once again!

Edited by Sprocketman
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27 minutes ago, AlanSA said:

Poor developers just can't win with some people.

 

That's not the point. As stated we're all delighted by the news about CMCW. But to see a game appear out of nowhere with a fixed release date, while waiting for years and years for a module that still hasn't a release date, is somewhat difficult to understand.

Edited by Aragorn2002
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7 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

CMCW did not steal any resources from F&R.  
 

They were concurrent developments and in fact CMCW did not impinge on any F&R testers/content developers until very late in development.  @BFCElvissaw to that ;) 

Bil

In that case I regret that you weren't involved in the creation of the Fire and Rubble module, Bil. 😀

 

Edited by Aragorn2002
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Whether we play history or alternative history, the alternative history is the Fulda Gap Battles and leave the North German Plain offside. The Russians were blocked from capturing Hamburg by the British at the end of WW 2. I wait like Battle for Normandy till all the modules have come out. With Fire and Rubble, it is something to complete Red Thunder. The Olde Hansa League Cities are too important to be left out. Hamburg, Lüneburg, Gdansk to name a few. Logistics and supply. I can't see the Soviets managing by road transport only. 

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12 hours ago, MikeyD said:

The coming CMRT 'Fire and Rubble' module is the cat's meow, too. Its (almost) too bad the Cold War announcement is stealing its thunder somewhat. Buy both! If not immediately, then with a decent interval between the two. The games ain't going anywhere.

Oh, I'm planning on getting and using it especially with access to partisans for my Crimean scenarios. 

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12 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

Great looking map! Making maps in CM's editor certainly requires a bit of artistic ability. 

I'm a dog person myself. Will you take a woof? 😁

The good thing with the games all using the same basic engine is I get to practice mapmaking which I love doing. I could work on them all day but maps without scenarios isn't going to cut it IMHO. I really need to learn the use the AI to at least make a semi-presentable and challenging opponent.

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8 minutes ago, Double Deuce said:

Oh, I'm planning on getting and using it especially with access to partisans for my Crimean scenarios. 

We should all buy everything that BF can throw at us. A company like this will never appear again. Mind you, I'm driven by sheer egoism. 😉

Edited by Aragorn2002
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