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CMSF2 Demos Released!

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16 hours ago, Andy_101 said:

What am I doing wrong?

As was said above, urban warfare requires a methodical approach. One technique is to divide the battlefield into manageable phase lines whereby you only reach the final objective with a few turns left in the scenario. This sort of forces you to go slow. This does not apply to all scenarios, but something to consider when doing your initial planning. 

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Isolate small portions of the battlefield. Establish overwatch, suppression, and then move in.

To isolate, tanks do very well to dominate long streets. Of course, the enemy likes stationary tanks. ;) 

Isolate a block, move up. Watch it. If you can, get some units to flank it. If you cannot control the back of the block/building, at least cover most of the exits. 

Then, use firepower to suppress and move forward. It only takes 15-30 seconds of suppression. The goal is to get the defenders to duck down. Then, your guys move up and look in the windows. Like fish in a barrel. Next, SLOW or HUNT into the building with a tight covered arc so your men can see what's out the back.

That, at least, is one technique.

 

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Thanks everyone for the comments.  It's from the scenario Passage at Wilcox.  I'm trying to take hold of the centre compound.  I felt if I could take this compound I could direct operations from there, use it as a jump base into the other compounds.  But my chaps keep getting slaughtered.  I've tried all sorts of routes, including using engineers to blow holes through walls but to avail.  

From what I gather from the kind comments I've had it seems that sitting back and levelling it from afar is probably more effective (but also perhaps less exciting?).  Anyway, I think I will withdraw my troops and try something different.  Thanks!  A.  :)

Screenshot 2018-11-07 at 21.38.36.png

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Sitting back and levelling the town is why there are Preserve objectives in this scenario - it's certainly an option in this scenario (albeit a boring one), and I suspect the balance might be a little off for that reason.

Sometimes you don't have the option, as much as you might want it. Urban combat is nasty.

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3 hours ago, Andy_101 said:

Thanks everyone for the comments.  It's from the scenario Passage at Wilcox.  I'm trying to take hold of the centre compound.  I felt if I could take this compound I could direct operations from there, use it as a jump base into the other compounds.  But my chaps keep getting slaughtered.  I've tried all sorts of routes, including using engineers to blow holes through walls but to avail.  

From what I gather from the kind comments I've had it seems that sitting back and levelling it from afar is probably more effective (but also perhaps less exciting?).  Anyway, I think I will withdraw my troops and try something different.  Thanks!  A.  :)

I think that compound you are trying to take is probably a bait by the map designer to lure your troops into a trap. It is well fortified and occupied by several squads. I had to level half of the buildings to be able to take what's left of it. Otherwise you would have to encircle it to suppress all enemies in the compound without destroying the buildings but that exposes your troops to the other enemies on the map.

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As an experiment try using the vehicles to blow smoke.  In the game, smoke acts as if there are no walls to prevent it from obscuring everything in range including the other side of buildings.  Not certain, but might enable your guys to maneuver.

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These demos are great! Except for "Breaking the Bank. Its kicking my butt...damn 30mm AGL's. But I have not lost yet...

I can't wait for the upgrades.

Good job!

Edited by gunnersman

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19 hours ago, gunnersman said:

These demos are great! Except for "Breaking the Bank. Its kicking my butt...damn 30mm AGL's. But I have not lost yet...

I can't wait for the upgrades.

Good job!

I played Passage At Wilcox a second time around and bossed it (prior knowledge of enemy positions helped!).  Breaking the Bank is so much harder but I'm persevering!

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On 11/6/2018 at 11:51 PM, Andy_101 said:

I find this the most impossibly difficult game to play.  Don't get me wrong, I love it!  But trying to breach buildings where the enemy lay in wait leads to certain death every time. Entire squads get wiped out.  I've reloaded about a dozen times and with a dozen different strategies but every time my guys get slaughtered. What am I doing wrong?   

I'm suffering on Passage to Wilcox. I've had to adjust tactics to simply flatten every building from afar. Bastards still survive collapsing buildings but are quickly wiped out once in the open.

Edited by AlanSA

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5 hours ago, AlanSA said:

I'm suffering on Passage to Wilcox. I've had to adjust tactics to simply flatten every building from afar. Bastards still survive collapsing buildings but are quickly wiped out once in the open.

Want a real treat? Try playing it as an H2H on PBEM as I am. My opponent, with whom I've been playing PBEM H2H since he introduced me to CMBB close to 20-years ago, chose the scenario and the sides. An AI is a piece of cake compaired to a human mind.

Assuming you are playing Blue, my advice is don't rush it! You have what, 90 or 120 minutes to complete it. Dismount your pixeltruppen, and advance them forward using cover and concealment, and fire and maneuver. There's absolutely no reason for "Hey diddle diddle, right up the middle." Put your vehicles in hull down in overwatch positions. You WILL LOSE SOME! Just make sure that all your vehicles have a combined good LOS to most, if not all of the town so you can take out immediately, any enemy units that pose a threat. Keep them in overwatch until you can safely move them up. Don't forget that your engineers have demo charges. Use them to breach outer walls and buildings. Most of all, TAKE IT SLOW!

Edited by Vet 0369

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16 hours ago, AlanSA said:

I'm suffering on Passage to Wilcox. I've had to adjust tactics to simply flatten every building from afar. Bastards still survive collapsing buildings but are quickly wiped out once in the open.

Excellent :) My plan works! There are few problems that cannot be overcome by the application of more HE...

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It's not an easy one. Having play tested this for George, I can say that I got my a$$ handed to me at first, before starting over with a more prudent approach. Slow and steady wins the race. The defenders are well situated to foil any rash moves.

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1 hour ago, George MC said:

Excellent :) My plan works! There are few problems that cannot be overcome by the application of more HE...

:D👍💥

12 minutes ago, Ultradave said:

It's not an easy one. Having play tested this for George, I can say that I got my a$$ handed to me at first, before starting over with a more prudent approach. Slow and steady wins the race. The defenders are well situated to foil any rash moves.

I have started over in many of George's scenarios :) Part of my learning process ... still underway. 

13 hours ago, Vet 0369 said:

Want a real treat? Try playing it as an H2H on PBEM as I am. My opponent, with whom I've been playing PBEM H2H since he introduced me to CMBB close to 20-years ago, chose the scenario and the sides. An AI is a piece of cake compaired to a human mind.

Challenging 🔥  Most of all, TAKE IT SLOW! Good advice 👍

Buzz

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3 hours ago, Ultradave said:

Having play tested this for George, I can say that I got my a$$ handed to me at first, before starting over with a more prudent approach. Slow and steady wins the race.

@George MC's scenarios often remind me of a puzzle box, with a key or series of keys to be found, each unlocking a layer of the scenario.  B)

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19 hours ago, Vet 0369 said:

Want a real treat? Try playing it as an H2H on PBEM as I am. My opponent, with whom I've been playing PBEM H2H since he introduced me to CMBB close to 20-years ago, chose the scenario and the sides. An AI is a piece of cake compaired to a human mind.

Assuming you are playing Blue, my advice is don't rush it! You have what, 90 or 120 minutes to complete it. Dismount your pixeltruppen, and advance them forward using cover and concealment, and fire and maneuver. There's absolutely no reason for "Hey diddle diddle, right up the middle." Put your vehicles in hull down in overwatch positions. You WILL LOSE SOME! Just make sure that all your vehicles have a combined good LOS to most, if not all of the town so you can take out immediately, any enemy units that pose a threat. Keep them in overwatch until you can safely move them up. Don't forget that your engineers have demo charges. Use them to breach outer walls and buildings. Most of all, TAKE IT SLOW!

Thanks. The scenario is 110min. I am the antithesis of a player who rushes. Eaten through more than half the time and only now getting stuck into MOUT . I can always do with more time and more smoke!

Ran into my first snafu assaulting the same building Andy mention earlier. Do Pixeltruppen suffer suppression or moral hits if the buildings around them are brought down or the level above them takes damage?

I've included a screen capture of the building in question in my game. The enemy squad that the arrow is pointing at are seemingly unperturbed about the fire power destroying everything around them. They're unleashing accurate automatic and RPG fire on anybody that gets near them. 

CM Shock Force 2 Demo 2018-12-16 21-56-16-36.jpg

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1 hour ago, AlanSA said:

Thanks. The scenario is 110min. I am the antithesis of a player who rushes. Eaten through more than half the time and only now getting stuck into MOUT . I can always do with more time and more smoke!

Ran into my first snafu assaulting the same building Andy mention earlier. Do Pixeltruppen suffer suppression or moral hits if the buildings around them are brought down or the level above them takes damage?

I've included a screen capture of the building in question in my game. The enemy squad that the arrow is pointing at are seemingly unperturbed about the fire power destroying everything around them. They're unleashing accurate automatic and RPG fire on anybody that gets near them. 

CM Shock Force 2 Demo 2018-12-16 21-56-16-36.jpg

 Well, let's look at it this way; is this complex an assigned objective, or are the Fanatic Red's in the complex preventing you from taking your objectives? If no to both, then ask yourself why you are risking your pixeltruppen to take a complex that provides no benefit to the outcome of the mission. I don't know what the Red objectives are, but I suspect they relate to slowing you down, while inflicting the maximum number of casualties possible. What better way to do that than to entice you into a meat grinder like this? Maybe you can just bypass the complex. That's what I'm thinking of doing, but of course, when playing human opponents, you can never be certain how they will disposition troops, or what ground they will designate as important.

Edited by Vet 0369

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5 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

@George MC's scenarios often remind me of a puzzle box, with a key or series of keys to be found, each unlocking a layer of the scenario.  B)

He! Thanks :) key is interlocking defences set in layers!

However once you manage to unlock part of the defence it gets easier quicker.

I try to model defensive/offensive setups on what the RL protagonists would use/do and avoid gamey setups.

Although a lot of it comes down to spending a lot of time doing terrain analysis to work out setups and AI plans 

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10 hours ago, Vet 0369 said:

 Well, let's look at it this way; is this complex an assigned objective, or are the Fanatic Red's in the complex preventing you from taking your objectives? If no to both, then ask yourself why you are risking your pixeltruppen to take a complex that provides no benefit to the outcome of the mission. I don't know what the Red objectives are, but I suspect they relate to slowing you down, while inflicting the maximum number of casualties possible. What better way to do that than to entice you into a meat grinder like this? Maybe you can just bypass the complex. That's what I'm thinking of doing, but of course, when playing human opponents, you can never be certain how they will disposition troops, or what ground they will designate as important.

Unfortunately not. They're on the flank of an objective. Troops moving to assault that objective are taking fire from the building. The scenario map size seems too narrow for bypassing buildings for the most part.

Edited by AlanSA

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7 hours ago, AlanSA said:

Unfortunately not. They're on the flank of an objective. Troops moving to assault that objective are taking fire from the building. The scenario map size seems too narrow for bypassing buildings for the most part.

Well then, it looks like it's time for the Bradley's, and Abrams to reduce the complex to rubble. After you reduce the buildings to rubble with the Abrams and Bradley's, call in a 120mm mission with all tubes on maximum with personnel rounds. That should clear out the survivors in the rubble.

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Not sure if it's a glitch or I'm missing something but I've found machine guns on the Bradley's and G-Wagons often don't obey orders to open fire on either direct or area targets . For example when I give my gunner on a G-Wagon an area target he'll stand there twiddling his thumbs "spotting" then eventually it will say "firing" but no tracers are visible. After that there will be no more "firing" on the target area through multiple 'minute' turns.

I have on occasion seen them open fire with visible tracers but very rarely.

Edited by AlanSA

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