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Wiggum15

Please NO Marines or NATO forces module !

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Does Poland still use a lot of Soviet era vehicles or is it mostly Western stuff these days? Yes I know I can google it but I think others here would be interested and folks here might have more up to date info than Wikipedia.

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Personally I'd prefer to see a British module over a German or French one. Looking at the current situation (and I realise the story isn't linked to reality) the French and Germans try diplomacy while the rest of NATO is sending troops forward for training exercises and into Ukraine itself. This to me shows a willingness to deploy before a conflict fully starts.

 

Or make a 'European Big Three' pack with all three nations priced the same as a full game. Of course before this I'd rather see the Polish military added.

 

Edit: Sequoia the Polish Land Forces seem to have a lot of indigenous equipment mixed with small amounts of Soviet equipment and newer NATO equipment (such as the Leo 2 with unique upgrades). It's Wiki I know but.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Polish_Land_Forces

Edited by -Eddie-

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You do realize that both of those things have a survival time rated in seconds?

 

There is a lot of footage that documents tank riders in eastern Ukraine. Both, the government and the Spereatists are doing it.

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I wasn't particularly serious about that. I doubt anyone would ride into battle on a MBT that is packed in explosive armor and a system that shoots shrapnel on incoming rounds.

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I wasn't particularly serious about that. I doubt anyone would ride into battle on a MBT that is packed in explosive armor and a system that shoots shrapnel on incoming rounds.

ERA tiles are designed to only get activated by direct hits from HEAT projectiles. At that point the tank rider would be completely screwed with or without the ERA tiles around him. Explosive APS is a different beast though, and infantry is generally advised to stay at least 50 meters away from tanks that have it activated.

But to Agusto point, there have infect been documented cased of tank riders going into battle on top of their vehicles. On the rebel side such tactic was used during the infamous attack by the LNR "August" battalion on strategic heights around Debaltseve. Not sure about the Ukrainian forces, but it would not surprise me to much either....

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I know. Still, I would not feel comfortable sitting on a bunch of plates designed to explode if something hits them, don't Sabot rounds ignite them as well?

I have seen photos of people riding around on BMPs and BTRs, never into battle though anf I don't really know why.

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Re: Tank riders

 

It's one of those things you do in the absence of other vehicles, or in a low threat environment.  It's really dangerous for the riders, and gets in the way of the tanker.

 

 

 

I have seen photos of people riding around on BMPs and BTRs, never into battle though anf I don't really know why. 

 

The inside of an IFV is a cramped, loud, smelly place.  None of them are comfortable, and a BTR/BMP operating at capacity is pretty much a solid block of soldier in the troop bay with equipment wedged in (Bradleys are not much better, but were designed to barely fit a larger soldier to begin with).  In low threat environments, like riding from place to place behind friendly lines, being on top of the IFV in the fresh air, with room to spread out would be pretty attractive, which is where you see most of these photos and videos coming from.  Also in places where mines are a bigger threat than direct fire, getting standoff from the mine, and having the floor and roof armor between you and a possible mine detonation is a pragmatic trade off to being more vulnerable to rare/uncommon gunfire.  

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I know. Still, I would not feel comfortable sitting on a bunch of plates designed to explode if something hits them, don't Sabot rounds ignite them as well?

I have seen photos of people riding around on BMPs and BTRs, never into battle though anf I don't really know why.

Newer generations of ERA can in fact be used against SABOT as well, but again you would not want to be sitting on a vehicle as it gets hit by SABOT either...There are several reasons why Russians choose to ride on top of their IFVs/APCs:

a) Better visibility

B) Better ventilation

c) Better chance to dismount quickly

d) Additional protection against land mines

e) Better chance to survive a vehicle hit

Of course this only works when fighting a non-conventional force with limited artillery support. That is why Russian officers have lately been cracking down on such practices.

Edited by DreDay

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Does Poland still use a lot of Soviet era vehicles or is it mostly Western stuff these days? Yes I know I can google it but I think others here would be interested and folks here might have more up to date info than Wikipedia.

 

It seems to be a combination of new Western equipment such as the Leopard 2, upgrades Soviet equipment like the PT-91 Twardy (aa modernised T-72M1 and older Soviet era T-72shttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Polish_Army

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leopards 2A4 version we have 120 - and by the end of the year we will have 105 leopards version 2A5 -all will be upgraded  to version 2a5PL - additional armor, upgraded gun, electronics, etc. 
 
There are 232 PT-91 - are worse than t72b3 (weaker armor and ammunition) - will be upgraded to version t72eu - the equivalent t72b3
 
and about 500 T72 - to be withdrawn from service and replaced by Anders Light Tank (or something similar)
 
Edited by waclaw

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BTR, do you have a source for Black Sea marines deploying T-72s (or any other tanks in their OOB)? I was under impression that they did not have a tank battalion...

 

A battalion set of refurbished T-72Bs arrived in Crimea in March 2014.

 

0_8d009_b09fd13b_XXL.jpg

 

edit: oops, missed BTR's reply.  Even found basically the same photo.

Edited by akd

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The main thing is the game engine, which I'm sure they will tweak even more. CMBS blows CMRT out of the water in terms of innovations and performance (on my humble computer), even though RT is engine 3.x.

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Concerning the attack from the sea and US Marines, didn't Steve or someone from Battelefront pretty much rule it out as unfeasible in the Black Sea? I am not saying that as an argument against the inclusion of Marines, but if they are included, there probably won't be any amphibious landing.

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The main thing is the game engine, which I'm sure they will tweak even more. CMBS blows CMRT out of the water in terms of innovations and performance (on my humble computer), even though RT is engine 3.x.

 

Huh, what innovations ?

Yes, modern warfare stuff but nothing fundamental like a better TacAI, a new LOS tool or a playback function.

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Huh, what innovations ?

Yes, modern warfare stuff but nothing fundamental like a better TacAI, a new LOS tool or a playback function.

 

That "modern warfare stuff" is the innovation, UAV's, laser warnings, ERA, precision artillery ETC, are all part of fundamental changes to the engine. Whats wrong with using "target" as an LOS tool, I am open to change but unless you say whats wrong with it or bring up an alternative than it will stay the same.

Edited by Raptorx7

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That "modern warfare stuff" is the innovation, UAV's, laser warnings, ERA, precision artillery ETC, are all part of fundamental changes to the engine. Whats wrong with using "target" as an LOS tool, I am open to change but unless you say whats wrong with it or bring up an alternative than it will stay the same.

 

Target does suffice as a LOS tool but a better would would be preferable. Kind of like the Commandos: Behind enemy lines view thing when you clicked on the soldiers, that would be cool.

 

I for one want a "Marines" module. USMC and VDV are a given I would think, although I do want Morskaya Pehota also.

Edited by Stagler

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leopards 2A4 version we have 120 - and by the end of the year we will have 105 leopards version 2A5 -all will be upgraded  to version 2a5PL - additional armor, upgraded gun, electronics, etc. 
 
There are 232 PT-91 - are worse than t72b3 (weaker armor and ammunition) - will be upgraded to version t72eu - the equivalent t72b3
 
and about 500 T72 - to be withdrawn from service and replaced by Anders Light Tank (or something similar)
 

 

It would be interesting to have PT91s in the game but I can't imagine Poland committing them to a limited fight in Ukraine when they have Leo2's. I just looked up the Anders. Now that would be fun.

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Regarding Poland, I think something important hasn't been mentioned, the KTO Rosomak, which comes with both 30 mm manned and unmanned turrets. Rosomak also brings the fascinating Spike ATGM into play. Apparently, the Rosomak has versions armed with Bushmaster and Spike and others that transport two Spike ATGM teams. The combat proven Rosomak comes in all sorts of interesting configurations, and even the baseline vehicles have thermals!  30 mm Bushmaster, armor good through 30 mm APDS, amazing terrain crossing capabilities and amphibious. Cool vid, but looks like YT squashed the audio.

 

 

Also, having now seen the ANDERS Light Tank of a family of ANDERS AFVs, I find it more nearly resembles something from SF than a conventional AFV. Note the design cue taken from the Merkava, with the big rear door and wide open fighting compartment aft of the turret. Vetronics and visionics are obviously of a very high order, too. What are those metallic cylinders which emerge from the hull side?

 

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

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Concerning the attack from the sea and US Marines, didn't Steve or someone from Battelefront pretty much rule it out as unfeasible in the Black Sea? I am not saying that as an argument against the inclusion of Marines, but if they are included, there probably won't be any amphibious landing.

I obviously cannot speak for Steve, but I have been told by two separate US military anlysts that full Russian control of Crimea does indeed make it very difficult for any foreign navy to conduct military operations in the Black Sea... I am not an expert on naval operations, so unfortunately I cannot add much to it, nor do I completely understand why they see it that way... but I still find it interesting though.

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There already is playback, correct?

I mean the option to playback the whole scenario with no FOW after you completed it or at least a option to save some turns and watch them later with no FOW.

Edited by Wiggum15

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The stage is really set for including the Poles (if not this time, then when?) and if you do that you might as well bring along the Leopard-toting Dutch and Germans. The only major unique Polish equipment is the Patria AMV.

The Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians would probably be at home defending their extremely endangered borders.

Edited by Duckman

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the Leopard-toting Dutch and Germans. The only major unique Polish equipment is the Patria AMV.

 

Im afraid the Dutch are "Leopard-less" now http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/snow-leopards-dutch-sells-their-remaining-tanks-to-finland-020936/

 

I would say the mix of upgraded cold war ear WP kit along some modern EU stuff makes the Poles unique at least in my eyes.

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Personally, I have no interest in separatist forces. I would rather marines, and special forces for both sides, and other NATO forces like UK. Much better units with plenty of toys to play with.

Edited by Vinnart

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I obviously cannot speak for Steve, but I have been told by two separate US military anlysts that full Russian control of Crimea does indeed make it very difficult for any foreign navy to conduct military operations in the Black Sea... I am not an expert on naval operations, so unfortunately I cannot add much to it, nor do I completely understand why they see it that way... but I still find it interesting though.

One of the interesting things about the US navy coming into San Francisco during fleet week is when the navy decides a new policy and then flexes it's muscle during the party. Years ago they announced a new direction where the navy would no longer limit itself to deep ocean warfare but declared an intent and ability to go in harm's way. They then launched and retrieved aircraft right in the bay, awesome is the only word I can think of.

The Black Sea is pretty darn big and the Navy would have additional air cover from land based air. Crimea as a defensive air platform would be hit intensively by NATO air. I don't see any particular military reason why the navy could not project power in the Black Sea when the eastern Mediterranean is not really much bigger. The real issue is access to the straits. If that is presumed to be allowed, then I think it is well within US Navy's capabilities to move into the Black Sea and pretty much do whatever it pleases. What is going to stop it?

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