Please NO Marines or NATO forces module !

[akd]

Speaking of MARINES....

 

What's the deal with these?

 

 

 

Dead program.

 

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/04/marines-about-to-announce-new-amphibious-combat-vehicle-plan-our-sneak-preview/

[Kieme(ITA)]

Thanks for the replies. So USMC is stuck with AAV7s for quite some more time?

[Rokko]

Thanks for the insight.

[Imperial Grunt]

Thanks for the replies. So USMC is stuck with AAV7s for quite some more time?

 

Yep. But they have a new survivability/suspension upgrade that is being installed and a new coat of paint! 

 

The MPC (Marine Personnel Carrier- essentially an amphibious Stryker) is on track for fielding by 2020. The plan is that funding will be available in the near future to restart a new tracked amphibious vehicle program from the failed EFV program. A future RCT will have one Bn mounted in tracked Amphibious Fighting Vehicles (AFVs), on Bn mounted on MPCs, and one Bn moved by trucks or helos or good ole LPCs (leather personnel carriers...ie; boots). 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Imperial Grunt

[CORSAIR31]

It's not the same scheme than ex-Yougo !

I think NATO implication in this armed confilct is irrealistic. US or any Euro troops vs Russians is the biginning of WW III and quit the regional crisis, the theme of our favorite game !

Accent must be made on irregulars troops and ex soviets nations. UN troops with fight permission also.

[Pablius]

 

But with that said, shortcomings were recognized. It simply cannot provide sustained MG-like suppression like the M249 SAW can. This is fully acknowledged and is the reason why every company still has 9 M249s as T/E equipment to be employed as the company commander sees fit. That has essentially evolved to 3 M27 IARs and one M249 SAW per squad.

 

 

 

So, in game terms, assuming a Marines module, should the M249 SAW be:

 

1) A default weapon carried by squads 

2) An "Acquire" weapon as Javelins (not sure if it`s possible for the engine to do this with this kind of weapon)

3) Not present, it`s 2017 and we´ve moved on

[Imperial Grunt]

So, in game terms, assuming a Marines module, should the M249 SAW be:

 

1) A default weapon carried by squads 

2) An "Acquire" weapon as Javelins (not sure if it`s possible for the engine to do this with this kind of weapon)

3) Not present, it`s 2017 and we´ve moved on

 

Probably an option such as selecting a M25 or a M4/M320 for a US Army squad.

[GAZ NZ]

Space marines

[GAZ NZ]

Seriously i want to see Special Forces

both sides

they often work together

afganastan and iraqi US examples and NZ british aussie SAS working with conventional troops

Spetnazzzz

[GAZ NZ]

Current force projection is hypersonic drones , drones and airunits and special forces Usscom, Seals, Delta, SAS with overwhelming firepower - initial hit and run strikes.

Thats in the middle east now.

Would they apply this in the Ukraine?

[John Kettler]

Kieme(ITA),

 

The EFV (Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle) looks like an armored house on tracks on land, but watch it go at sea! A simply stunning design that does what no amphib vehicle has ever done before. Watch the magic that happens to turn an AFV into a 26 knot planing hull. It's a lot more than a bow deflector. Some useful history on USMC APCs and IFVs, from  AA-7 on.

 

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

Current force projection is hypersonic drones , drones and airunits and special forces Usscom, Seals, Delta, SAS with overwhelming firepower - initial hit and run strikes.

Thats in the middle east now.

Would they apply this in the Ukraine? 

 

No.  Hypersonic drones are still something that's closer to 2020-2025.  The use of SOF in the middle east has less to do with "this is force projection!" and more to do with "This is force projection when we don't want a large western ground presence and we're trying to train the locals to do the heavy lifting"

 

If Ukraine was getting hot and heavy SOF may show up, but things are going to involve a lot more heavy metal as it is.  

[LukeFF]

Seriously i want to see Special Forces

both sides

they often work together

afganastan and iraqi US examples and NZ british aussie SAS working with conventional troops

 

Afghani and Iraqi? ROFL, thanks for the joke of the day.

[Pablius]

The problem with SOF is that the game is not focused on...let`s say...finesse

 

They would end up there just for flavor, going along with regular troops...how do you simulate a complex assault on a compound? there are no "no-combatant" units to avoid, no taking of prisoners/hostages, no hold fire or silenced weapons only orders, etc

 

The only thing I can think of, is putting them behind enemy lines as target designators or deep recon forces, but I don't think it`s worth the effort, you could do that with regular sniper teams or recon units, even if it`s not their primary function

[DreDay]

The problem with SOF is that the game is not focused on...let`s say...finesse

 

They would end up there just for flavor, going along with regular troops...how do you simulate a complex assault on a compound? there are no "no-combatant" units to avoid, no taking of prisoners/hostages, no hold fire or silenced weapons only orders, etc

 

The only thing I can think of, is putting them behind enemy lines as target designators or deep recon forces, but I don't think it`s worth the effort, you could do that with regular sniper teams or recon units, even if it`s not their primary function

 

This has already been debated on several occasions. The proponents of SOF in CMBS (myself included) are not expecting to see some SWAT-like ninjas who free hostages and clear buildings "Kill-house style". We are proposing higher trained and better concealed sniper, recon, and assault teams whose standards of training and morale  go beyond what is simulated (for regular infantry units) in CM; and who use suppressed and silenced weapons making them so much more difficult to spot and to track down. I personally feel that those types of units can fit into CMBS quite organically...

[GAZ NZ]

Afghani and Iraqi? ROFL, thanks for the joke of the day.

In afgan and iraq sas and socom have worked with local forces

i have plenty of battle footage of it

not sure what jokes about

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

In afgan and iraq sas and socom have worked with local forces

i have plenty of battle footage of it

not sure what jokes about 

 

I think either:

 

1. He thought you meant either of those military forces showing up to help in the Ukraine

 

2. Or just a general purpose statement about the effectiveness of those two military forces.

 

Either of which can be seen as a reason for humor. 

[LukeFF]

I think either:

 

1. He thought you meant either of those military forces showing up to help in the Ukraine

 

2. Or just a general purpose statement about the effectiveness of those two military forces.

 

Either of which can be seen as a reason for humor. 

 

Yep, it was number 2. 

[Apocal]

The bitching about SOF getting owned by the capital systems of the CMBS battlefield (APS-equipped armor, automatic grenade launchers, massive ROF autocannons, near-universal airbursting HE) would be enormous. Like, it is hard enough for players to accept "recon battles" where the only objective is to push forward far enough to get spots on enemy heavy weapons, could you imagine when they go in with tier 1 operators and get facerolled by everything that counters dismounted troops?

[Nerdwing]

The bitching about SOF getting owned by the capital systems of the CMBS battlefield (APS-equipped armor, automatic grenade launchers, massive ROF autocannons, near-universal airbursting HE) would be enormous. Like, it is hard enough for players to accept "recon battles" where the only objective is to push forward far enough to get spots on enemy heavy weapons, could you imagine when they go in with tier 1 operators and get facerolled by everything that counters dismounted troops?

 

Plus AH-6 versus Igla 

[Stagler]

No delta seal force SF.

 

Light infantry SF, and light infantry SF only.

 

VDV recon, and rangers. Light infantry company size formations without vehicles. Even then their organisation wouldn't be too different from just picking an infantry only unit and putting their skill and equipment on the best setting.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

No delta seal force SF.

 

I have to differ here.  Here's two places they potentially fit in:

 

1. As available support for unconventional fighters.  Both Russia, and NATO members have in the past used SOF as liaison/augmentation for friendly unconventional forces.  Basically it'd be a way to give your Ukrainian National Force of Liberation in Donbass forces Predator or fixed wing support/Give separatist militias something similar.  

 

2. As small supersquads intended for tiny scenarios.  We've already seen a few platoon level (so like, three squads+HQ) scenarios that are both popular and well thought out.   A SOF element of 2-3 squad sized (or 4-6 team seized) elements+JTAC kind of element is totally on line for that sort of scenario.  

[Stagler]

 

 

1. As available support for unconventional fighters.  Both Russia, and NATO members have in the past used SOF as liaison/augmentation for friendly unconventional forces.  Basically it'd be a way to give your Ukrainian National Force of Liberation in Donbass forces Predator or fixed wing support/Give separatist militias something similar.

 

They would not operate as such. There is no equivalent.

They would operate as a platoon strength element. Russia does not operate any platform like reaper with the same support base, availability or provision of integrated istar capability. Closest analogue is Pchela which is owned by artillery brigades, or Zala which is raven equivalent.

Special purpose troop units would operate on the battlefield at platoon/company level dismounted from their vehicles as light infantry as the 45th ORP does at this time. Alpha or Lynx units would not fit into CMBS - they are not battlefield forces.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Stagler

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

They would not operate as such. There is no equivalent.

 

The presence of 'Uussican SOF within the separatist ranks seems to indicate otherwise.  And the recent admissions of Putin seem to indicate they are used in that sort of role as policy, regardless of title or stated mission.

 

Either way, if we're simply going above board, US Army SOF, and Delta both do extensive operations with host nation forces in both a training/advising*, and technical support role.  For future modules, the UK operates much the same way, and there's some strong smells of Deutchland in places.  Including those teams as a defacto Ukrainian uncon JTAC node is in my opinion, a given

 

*In the sense they attach themselves to the host nation force.  We already see the "regular" forces version of this with US liaison teams, but those are not the sort of elements we'd commit to non-uniformed allies.

[Stagler]

The presence of 'Uussican SOF within the separatist ranks seems to indicate otherwise.  And the recent admissions of Putin seem to indicate they are used in that sort of role as policy, regardless of title or stated mission.

 

Either way, if we're simply going above board, US Army SOF, and Delta both do extensive operations with host nation forces in both a training/advising*, and technical support role.  For future modules, the UK operates much the same way, and there's some strong smells of Deutchland in places.  Including those teams as a defacto Ukrainian uncon JTAC node is in my opinion, a given

 

*In the sense they attach themselves to the host nation force.  We already see the "regular" forces version of this with US liaison teams, but those are not the sort of elements we'd commit to non-uniformed allies.

 

There are no Russian troops in Ukraine!

 

 

 

No I jest. Seriously though, they don't operate like that. People are much confused about the term spetsnaznacheniya - the types of troops that are scattered around DNR and LNR units are not those that are within the scope of a CM game. Next we will be buying 4 man seal squads in the editor. Sure you have the US advisory section available to the Ukrainian troops. But there is no Russian equivalent with access to the same capabilities as the advisory teams at this time. Russia surges their in disguise units and actually has them operate on the pointy end, in large groupings. Then withdraws them. Individuals and small groups attached to DNR and LNR militia HQ elements are from ministry of interior and military strategic reconnaissance, do we have CIA/DIA officers ingame? No we don't.