Is it just me, or is it too quiet...

[Thomm]

I found this gem of a post in the 1999 archive:

It has occured to me that the crew at Combat Mission have been wasting their time posting stuff on this board and putting stuff on that HQ site way too much. Perhaps, if they spent a bit little more time working on the game and not cluttering up this board and putting stuff on HQ they'd be done with the game faster. It's a utilitsation of time. I myself have not ordered the game, but I've rather observed the "going's on" here and with all these gaming fanatics here....every second counts...! At least that's the way I feel about it. Have I played combat mission yet? Yes. I downloaded the Win Version a few months ago. But guys....get to work, okay? Unless you want these savages to turn on you. Quit wasting time and grow up.

Priceless, eh?

Talk about a loose-loose situation for BFC!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Cpl Steiner]

I have recently reread the interview Steve gave about CM:SF. If you are worried about the progress of the game, I would advise you to read it again, as it gave me some renewed hope.

Gamecloud interview

In the interview, Steve clearly states that the game has been in development for two and a half years. It appears that the forum was therefore created not when they started development but rather once the game had reached a fairly advanced stage and was ready to have graphics added.

Perhaps the silence is actually the "silence before the storm" when BFC make a very big announcement (like the first Beta gameplay movie).

[ May 03, 2006, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Steiner ]

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Rollstoy:

Talk about a loose-loose situation for BFC!

As opposed to a tight-tight situation?

Michael

[Capt. Toleran]

Key quote from the article on Gamecloud:

"Steve Grammont -.....'We expect CM:SF, the first of many games from the CMx2 engine, to be released in Spring 2006'"

Given that we are now getting well into Spring, with not a word or screenshot from Battlefront on the progress from this game, I don't think it is too much to ask on the promotional forum for the game for some bones at this point. Unlike others, I am pretty happy about the modern setting of the game (I mean, cmon guys, 500 games in the past 6 years about WWII isn't enough for you?), but my patience is wearing thin as month after month, this forum has no new news. Really this thread is an apt description of what is going on, and it saddens me to think that the original Combat Mission forums was so active and alive, while this one is clearly almost a flatline. Considering that user feedback and organic word-of-mouth marketing has been an integral part of Battlefront's success, it is arrogant at this point not to share product details or a progress report with the few people here that actually bother to check on the game.

Some of us budget our gaming dollars in advance -- It would be nice to know approx. when I would need to set aside my money and time to play this game. I know others who buy products or services from vendors are usually given this courtesy, if even just a progress report.

[aka_tom_w]

We should really give Steve and the Boys the benefit of the doubt here, (really!) I am pretty sure they are all doing their level best (and then some!) to get CMSF out the door and on to your hard drive as soon as possible. (I understand they are motivated by the profit margin on the sale of their games.)

IMHO they have a very ambitious feature set and agenda and it would NOT surprise my one little bit if they have not run into a few real challenging coding snags. I have NO idea and NO inside information, but I am aware the same of all of the rest of you that they are actually inventing something that has never been developed before. (game of the scale and scope of CMSF) They have publically stated their desired feature set and there is NO other game out there or in even in development currently (as least not that I am aware for the HOME consumer market), that has now or plans to have anything close to their anticipated feature set. (seriously)

SO...

Lets cut them some slack and hope to have it out by next Christmas break. If we get it sooner than that I will be pleasantly surprised.

The fact that there is no CMSF web site by now might suggest at least to me (and I could be wrong) the game is still at least 2-3 months away from gold master status. (BUT of course I hope I am wrong.)

Just save your pennies and wait and see...

-tom w

[Josh Coady]

I'm pretty much in the same camp as Coaxial_Puppet. I'm mid-20s and my wargaming interest is mostly WWII, although I really liked operation flashpoint and have played a Korea game as well, but right now I'm back to WWII (highly fictionalized) playing Silent Storm. Like a lot of others, I got my start in wargaming with SL and then ASL.

Maybe the difference with the younger crowd is that we're more likely to play a variety of genres. My favorite games are Half-Life and its "War of the Worlds" sequel. I also liked Far Cry, Knights of the Old Republic, the Civilization games, Need for Speed, Homeworld, and Freespace.

Will I buy SF? Probably, but I'll wait 6-12mos for the price to come down. Would I buy it right away if the setting was WWII? Not necessarily, but it'd definitely be more tempting.

I think the appeal of WWII is that it is simply more epic and grandiose than current warfare. I think there is a more emotional connection to that setting than to other settings.

Thats not to say that I wont play SF and enjoy every minute of it.

-Josh

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by Josh Coady:

I think the appeal of WWII is that it is simply more epic and grandiose than current warfare. I think there is a more emotional connection to that setting than to other settings.

I agree that you can't do "epic and grandiose" in any war since WWII, and to attempt to do so would be a mistake.

To make a modern war simulation gripping and dramatic, I think you have to look at it from another angle - that of comradeship. At the end of the film "Black Hawk Down" there are those lines: "Why do we do it? It's about the man next to you".

While there has always been comradeship in war, it becomes paramount in the modern age because the "good guys" are often volunteers, the wars they fight are usually unremarkable "police actions" in third world countries, and the cause is not national survival but some leader's idea of "foreign policy". In such a setting, soldiers in modern armies become more like mercenaries - fighting for pay and for each other.

I hope the CM:SF campaign mode emphasises this angle and doesn't harp on too much about "saving the world". As long as the soldiers are fairly cynical about the endeavour they are embarked upon, I think CM:SF will create some good drama.

[Capt. Toleran]

I guess what is interesting is what can be gleaned indirectly from board activity and participation. Clearly, when compared to CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK, this upcoming title is not nearly as anticipated or sought after, at least in terms of board activity. This makes one think then that a large % of the target audience will be, as others have speculated, organizations that would ultilize CMSF for training.

That being said, I wonder if they (Dept. of Defense, possibly) have been given any more info than we have on when the game will launch. Usually companies are used to some kind of timeline of delivery from their vendors -- I can't see Battlefront giving the DoD the "It's ready when it's ready" response they give us.

I really hope that this product was meant more for institutions, because as this point, this game is fast-tracked for commercial failure if this is the way Battlefront is going to cultivate their relationship with their fan base. Others called it years earlier when Battlefront started doing the things they said they wouldn't (distribution through a 3rd party, for instance), and it is apparent now that they have strayed far from their grass-roots marketing techniques, and now treat us as little more than a nuisance to sell products to.

I don't post on the boards often guys, so when I do, rest assured it is because I am completely disgusted with what has happened here. CM games used to generate so much interest and debate -- This forum truly is barren now. When the game comes out, I will of course order it -- I just hope it sells enough copies to justify sequels.

[Drusus]

Some time ago I remember this forum was very active. And Steve posted here almost every day. IIRC he even said that now is your time to comment our plans. The thing is, they are propably busy implementing all the core systems. If I am not wrong, there will still be another round of asking the community about the small details.

The decision that they are not posting screenshots from the game twice a month or telling us how the coding is progressing isn't about treating us as little more than a nuisance. There propably just isn't good screenshot that would look like the released game. Either block tanks and not-implemented-jet mortar rounds and so on. Or 3D studio and make great looking screenshots. Unfortunately not from the game, though. About the features. The list of features would, if I am not wrong, look very much like it did 3 months ago.

I agree that it would be nice to have a status update. But maybe there just isn't too much to tell us at the moment. And they might just want to concentrate on one thing. Making the game.

I don't agree that Battlefront is doing a bad job about the fan base overall. CMSF forum is a bit dead at the moment, though there are some who haven't abadoned it. But look, there is free public test for Dropteam. With a dev team that does listen to players. And free release of the 1848 game. Les Grognards is looking very promising and there is lots of dev team input on that forum.

I am sure that when CMSF gets to the beta test stage (or even alpha stage) there will be much more posts from BFC and the forum will be with lots of informative and interesting posts. And I am sure we will see the "my M1A2 got knocked out, this is unpossible" posts.

And last thing. The best forums aren't the ones with lots of activity and lots of posts. I don't want to see the first post spamming here. I choose quality over quantity.

[Capt. Toleran]

Well, the question is, was there ever a down period during the CMBO boards, or any of the sequels? I don't remember any. I do remember a lot of bones, screenshots, AARs, and lively debate. Numerous members have asked for screens, any screens, even crappy placeholder screens. We're into the period originally suggested by Battlefront for product release, and we don't even have a demo. Sounds kinda vapor-warey to me.

At this point, it's not just the CMSF game that people are interested in, it's the CMx2 engine that will determine whether they will be turning to Battlefront in the future for their tactical wargaming needs, whether it be WW2, Korea, Vietnam, etc.

And really, considering they had a fraction of the staff back then that they did now, it is amazing that not one developer, alpha/beta tester, or forum admin can be bothered to chime in on progress. Having worked in Marketing/Advertising for the entire decade, plus also having gotten my MBA, I can tell you this is not a great way way to build a groundswell for your next product -- But hey, it's their company (and our dollars at stake).

Alright, enough from me, I'm going back to rant mode. I just wanted to kick this thread up to the top a few times with the futile hope that someone would respond, or that there would at least be a clammoring of similar opinions. It seems that I was wrong.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Capt. Toleran:

Well, the question is, was there ever a down period during the CMBO boards, or any of the sequels? I don't remember any. I do remember a lot of bones, screenshots, AARs, and lively debate.

I guess you just drowned out the constant whining about CMBB bones and CMAK bones that went on for months on end.

Oh, add to that frustrated game-designer wannabes who kept coming onboard to post their brilliant ideas on customer relations.

Just after their resumes, I mean.

[Capt. Toleran]

Ha! I guess I was able to drown them out (and I do remember the complaints) because:

A) There were actual bones to go back and look at

B)There was so much more going on on those boards. They were like a 24-hour party.

Ok, I broke my promise, but I will try to keep my lips zipped.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Capt. Toleran:

Ha! I guess I was able to drown them out (and I do remember the complaints) because:

A) There were actual bones to go back and look at

B)There was so much more going on on those boards. They were like a 24-hour party.

Ok, I broke my promise, but I will try to keep my lips zipped.

Nah, why hide now; you're articulate and well spoken at least. Given a choice between you and tom's lame cheerleading, I'll take grandiosity any day. Seriously.

[MikeyD]

Y'know, if we're blindly speculating on why we've heard so little about progress with CMSF I could throw in my own worthless 2¢.

Blind speculation #1:

The game's about 90% done, runs flawlessly in Apha, but skinning everything is looking like more of a grotesque time-consuming challenge than they ever expected. That alone could add months to the schedule.

Blind speculation #2:

All those new partnerships and cooperative releases are placing an undue burdon on BFC's small staff. At some point they made a list of projects in order of importance - and we can guess where their own in-house CMSF game fell on that list.

Blind speculation #3:

'Somebody' was hauled into court for taking sexual liberties with an endangered species, and as a result a vital member of the BFC team has been tied-up (literally and figuratively) with time-coinsuming non-BFC-related troubles, slowing down the the progress of the game.

Blind speculation #4.

Homeland Security has whispered into their ears concerns about the game's overly-topical subject matter. They've been legally compelled to halt their work, plus they've been forbidden by law to divulge to anybody that Homeland Security had anything to do with it.

Hey, my guesses aren't any worse than anyone elses on the board!

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Given a choice between you and tom's lame cheerleading, I'll take grandiosity any day.

Cut him some slack he's Canadian, we should understand that makes things like thinking a bit before you post tough for him. Mike where did you say you were from?

[Wubbits]

Blind speculation #5.

Battlefront is waiting for E3 to tell the world that CM:SF is in beta. With lots of cool pics and gameplay vids that carefully skirt arround current gameplay bugs

Wubbits.

[aka_tom_w]

when is E3?

-tom w

[Midnight Warrior]

There is also blind speculation 6:

They have hauled in a fat government contract and are up to their eyes in alligators trying to get that out the door before they return to servicing us. And if that is the case that might not be all bad for us.

[Josh Coady]

E3 is May 10-12.

-Josh

[LongLeftFlank]

Originally posted by Midnight Warrior:

There is also blind speculation 6:

They have hauled in a fat government contract and are up to their eyes in alligators trying to get that out the door before they return to servicing us. And if that is the case that might not be all bad for us.

Especially if it's a Syrian government contract...

Code more quickly, infidel dogs, or by the false teeth of the Prophet, we will show you a different kind of "skinning".

[hoolaman]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

Blind speculation #4.

Homeland Security has whispered into their ears concerns about the game's overly-topical subject matter. They've been legally compelled to halt their work, plus they've been forbidden by law to divulge to anybody that Homeland Security had anything to do with it.

Hmmm, I find this one intriguingly possible. There is so much real gear in this game with varying degrees of top-secretness and even brand name infringements, that it wouldn't take more than a threat of legal action by the military industrial complex to scuttle the whole concept.

[ng cavscout]

Originally posted by Wubbits:

Blind speculation #5.

Battlefront is waiting for E3 to tell the world that CM:SF is in beta. With lots of cool pics and gameplay vids that carefully skirt arround current gameplay bugs

Wubbits.

Steve, MadMatt, and the Others probably just want an excuse to go and ogle the E3 "booth babes"....

True Crime girls

Namco girls

Conquer girls

[PanzerMike]

This board is indeed as good as dead, a far cry form ye olde times. Used to lurk here all the time

Now I check this board every now and than, but there is no news whatsoever :-(

I too don't think this is the way to go for BFC, but they think otherwise. Shame really.

I am an 'old' boardgamer that used to play World In Flames. Matrix Games are at last converting this classic to the PC. The developer is in close touch with the forum members. Very nice.

I hope this board will rise from it's ashes once CMSF goes gold. Relive old times, yeah ! Especially once CMx2 returns to the battlefields of Europe in 1944.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by NG cavscout:

Steve, MadMatt, and the Others probably just want an excuse to go and ogle the E3 "booth babes"....

Didn't somebody post something a month or so back that said there wasn't going to be any of that at the show this year? Hardly any reason to go any more...

Michael

[mav1]

What about the Arab and Israel wars. That war was about national survival.

[ May 04, 2006, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: mav1 ]