Is Russia Overpowered In Black Sea?

[Erwin]

Just heard that (as suggested earlier), Poland's jets are not being given directly to Ukraine...  Seems some back peddling.

[Battlefront.com]

Generalized discussion of the situation in Ukraine should not be here, it should be here:

 

[BornGinger]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:56 PM, sid_burn said:

Steve has said before that in WW2 CM titles things like inefficient slave labour is modeled by having German armoured vehicles suffer catastrophic failures...

How is this portrayed in the games? I have never had any armoured German vehicle that stops working all of a sudden or, as far as I know, had problems hitting an enemy vehicle.

Is it possible that it is the vehicles "soft factors" that stop functioning properly, like for example the periscope and other mechanical parts that the player maybe don't keep their eyes on very much?

Edited March 10, 2022 by BornGinger

[db_zero]

Any plans to add Molotov cocktails? 

In the past modeling civilians has been mentioned and it was considered off limits.

With the modeling of Volksgrenadiers in Red Thunder would some sort of civilian militia be considered for an  expansion?

Stingers-In Black Sea I don’t recall them being able to knock out small drones. I watched some videos on Stingers and apparently they are now capable of shooting down small drones.

Don’t know if one’s given to Ukraine is capable of that.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by db_zero

[BornGinger]

2 hours ago, db_zero said:

Any plans to add Molotov cocktails? 

I think they said some time ago that the grenades and explosive bundles are both granades, bundles, molotov cocktails and what not.

But the molotov cocktails should probably cause more of a fire than what is happening with the grenades, if they are supposed to be "cocktails" as well.

[db_zero]

34 minutes ago, BornGinger said:

I think they said some time ago that the grenades and explosive bundles are both granades, bundles, molotov cocktails and what not.

But the molotov cocktails should probably cause more of a fire than what is happening with the grenades, if they are supposed to be "cocktails" as well.

Need to see flames and vehicles burning and crews and passengers screaming on fire otherwise it just wouldn't be right. Be like seeing James Bond going up to the bar tender and asking for a Shirley Temple. 

[John Kettler]

On 3/6/2022 at 3:35 PM, MikeyD said:

CM players, especially H2H QB players, seem wedded to the notion of 'balanced gameplay'. That in itself gives CM an artificial aspect. In a real world tactical situation either one side or the other is going to be at a decided disadvantage, especially in typical CM-size engagements. Who wins the war is contingent on which side racks up the larger number of lop sided victories and which side has the smaller number of lop sided victories. But CM players don't like playing guaranteed lose or guaranteed win scenarios. A recent Youtuber discussing CM: Cold War commented that players tend to play the Russians 'CM-style' in the game, which is not  quite the same as how the Russians would have done it. Our own gameplay prejudices skew the simulation.

MikeyD et al.,

At least in some competitive group format, the Nabla System, the brainchild of our own Jarmo Hurri (Nabla) and Mike Meinecke back in the CMx1 days, was specifically built for imbalanced and even sure loss scenarios, because the metric wasn't how you did in absolute terms, but in how you did relative to everyone else playing your side in that particular scenario. Instead of obsessing over how unfair the scenario was, the player on the feces covered end of the stick instead focused on not just combat performance but force preservation and especially evacuating unhorsed AFV crews and prisoners, since both counted double points in assessing your individual performance. No longer was it a fight to the last tank and last grunt. See no reason why what worked great in CMx1 wouldn't do just as well in CMx2

http://cis.legacy.ics.tkk.fi/jarmo/nabla-system/manual-alpha.pdf

Regards,

John Kettler

[Battlefront.com]

7 hours ago, BornGinger said:

How is this portrayed in the games? I have never had any armoured German vehicle that stops working all of a sudden or, as far as I know, had problems hitting an enemy vehicle.

Er, it isn't.  We do model inferior quality of things like armor and AP round penetrators, but nothing about mechanical breakdowns at all for any reason for any side.

Steve

[Chrizwit3]

11 hours ago, BornGinger said:

How is this portrayed in the games? I have never had any armoured German vehicle that stops working all of a sudden or, as far as I know, had problems hitting an enemy vehicle.

For first time playing Blunting the Spear. Still on first mission, still confident of some level of win. Conditions pretty much perfect for armour. For all that; two immobilised tanks, three halftracks. Plus couple of "how can you not see that chuffing tank, you idiots" and a T34 still running around somewhere with a 75mm hole in its' top rear armour. Thought it was standard if it can go wrong it will. But now, now it all makes sense.

 

Edit. Bugger, just seen Steves' reply. Going to pretend didn't.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Chrizwit3

[BornGinger]

1 hour ago, Chrizwit3 said:

two immobilised tanks, three halftracks. Plus couple of "how can you not see that chuffing tank

Those have nothing to do with how German material is of low quality. They are just part of the game which all suffer from.

Line of sight is often very strange in the game and vehicles often get stuck in a little splash of mud for no reason at all.

[Chrizwit3]

31 minutes ago, BornGinger said:

Those have nothing to do with how German material is of low quality. They are just part of the game which all suffer from.

Line of sight is often very strange in the game and vehicles often get stuck in a little splash of mud for no reason at all.

Apologies.  Yes fully aware that part of game and happily accept that. Actual beliefs are, if anything, game underplays the chaos and frustrations of real world combat. To the point even the vagaries of spotting add to the experience rather than subtract. (Which accept, pretty bloomin' fringe view).

However had called a night on game as Panzer IV immobilised itself in a wood about twenty metres shy of flanking annoying T34. Take a break, check forum as been following both this and of course the uber Ukraine thread, saw your comment, made me smile. Slave labour, that's the problem, not me relying on one tank ploughing through a wood, when have an entire battalion of the buggers. But hardly post, so who's to know the tone.

[Probus]

@Battlefront.comSteve,

  I created a quick battle to just play a bit of what is currently going on.  Some things I noticed we need to add to CMBS DLC pack:

• Ukrainian drones.
• Varied western AT weapons for Ukraine.
• Varied western MANPADS.
• Captured Russian equipment.
• Heavier personal armor.
• Ukrainian irregulars.
• UKR Foreign Legion with light and heavy weapons.
• Russian "V", "Z", "O" etc... markings (that would make a good mod).
• Trucks that immobilize themselves because of Chinese tires.
• Equipment that either randomly break during the game or start out with down systems.

Engine Updates?:

• Remote firing SKIF (if doable in the engine).
• New advance command whilst reversing.
• Farmer's tractors?  

Also Many new "Road" or convoy based maps/scenarios.

Just to name a few...

[Combatintman]

Well for all those that moan about moving large numbers of vehicles down roads in CM as being a tedious and drawn out exercise at least now know that CMBS delivers hard core realism.

[John Kettler]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:09 AM, BornGinger said:

Those have nothing to do with how German material is of low quality. They are just part of the game which all suffer from.

Line of sight is often very strange in the game and vehicles often get stuck in a little splash of mud for no reason at all.

Can tell you from long and bitter experience that vehicles can and will bog on dry ground.  Not only that, they can and will Immobilize! If you have a high end AFV, that's the one this will happen to--with its flank exposed, no less. Contrariwise, if your oppnent had one it will kill everything of value, starting with your Combat Mission hopes and dreams, while being immune to anything you try to do to it. 

Regards,

John Kettler

[Kinophile]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:46 AM, Probus said:

@Battlefront.comSteve,

  I created a quick battle to just play a bit of what is currently going on.  Some things I noticed we need to add to CMBS DLC pack:

• Ukrainian drones.
• Varied western AT weapons for Ukraine.
• Varied western MANPADS.
• Captured Russian equipment.
• Heavier personal armor.
• Ukrainian irregulars.
• UKR Foreign Legion with light and heavy weapons.
• Russian "V", "Z", "O" etc... markings (that would make a good mod).
• Trucks that immobilize themselves because of Chinese tires.
• Equipment that either randomly break during the game or start out with down systems.

Engine Updates?:

• Remote firing SKIF (if doable in the engine).
• New advance command whilst reversing.
• Farmer's tractors?  

Also Many new "Road" or convoy based maps/scenarios.

Just to name a few...

you forgot John Deere Tractors.

[Simcoe]

Based on what we're seeing. Is the traditional Combat Mission scenario of a reinforced combined arms company all rolling up together still plausible? If not what, what WOULD be more plausible?

[Grey_Fox]

7 minutes ago, Simcoe said:

Based on what we're seeing. Is the traditional Combat Mission scenario of a reinforced combined arms company all rolling up together still plausible? If not what, what WOULD be more plausible?

Battalion+ sized stuff, and larger map sizes to allow you to disperse more when needed.

[Simcoe]

13 minutes ago, Grey_Fox said:

Battalion+ sized stuff, and larger map sizes to allow you to disperse more when needed.

Do you think the maps would be even larger than the Cold War battalion level scenarios?

[Rinaldi]

6 hours ago, Simcoe said:

Do you think the maps would be even larger than the Cold War battalion level scenarios?

I think there's a strong argument for it being necessary, if it was possible. 

[keas66]

Kind of curious about how you feel the about how well Drones / UAV's are represented in-game currently and their supposed  extreme vulnerability to AA fire  as mention in the manual .  I have been getting the impression from a lot of the footage that  the drones can be seen / heard  but not too many of them are getting shot down ? . Will be interesting to see  an after action report on this whole part of the battle space .

 

Also of course ....adding TB2  and anything seen in the conflict .

[General Jack Ripper]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:05 PM, Battlefront.com said:

I've seen no evidence that anything in CMBS is wrong

CMBS is, and always has been modeling a hypothetical scenario.

Let me say that again, HYPOTHETICAL.

One more time for posterity, and because some people have comprehension problems: HYPOTHETICAL.

There. There is no solution because there is no problem. Happy St. Patrick's Day to you all.

See y'all in a few more months I guess.

[General Jack Ripper]

On 3/6/2022 at 1:34 AM, MikeyD said:

To get a good approximation of Russians in CMBS go look for those Youtubers who decided to give the Steam CM franchise a spin without ever having played the game before. A lot of 'How does this work?', 'Oh! I just blew up!', 'Oh no, my men are dying!' and 'I'll just run him into the middle of the field and..."

Oh man that is always fun to see and is quite entertaining in a morbid way.
I don't know how many times I see some big time gaming youtuber playing CM and I think, "Man if I was playing this guy in a PBEM I would have kicked his ass three times by now."

[General Jack Ripper]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:49 PM, THH149 said:

If only Russian MoD had purchased the professional version of CMBS, Russia would've modernised their armed forces on the cheap with better training, and actually taught someone something useful. 

I once saw a documentary on RT about the use of video games to teach tactics and strategy to the military, but the games they showed were Blitzkrieg and Sudden Strike. If they had actually bought something like Combat Mission and given all their officers a copy...

[A Canadian Cat]

1 hour ago, General Jack Ripper said:

On 3/8/2022 at 5:49 PM, THH149 said:

If only Russian MoD had purchased the professional version of CMBS, <snip> better training, and actually taught someone something useful. 

I once saw a documentary on RT about the use of video games to teach tactics and strategy to the military, <sinp>. If they had actually bought something like Combat Mission and given all their officers a copy...

But would they have had the self awareness to set the motivation of the troops to low, the training levels to a mixture of regular and conscript and the leadership to -2. That's what we are seeing IRL right now.

[General Jack Ripper]

2 minutes ago, IanL said:

But would they have had the self awareness

I cannot speak to that except to say self-awareness is a rare trait in human beings.