How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[The_Capt]

12 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

1.  As noted (and I get you aren't promoting it Degsy), this kind of chest-thumping DUUUDE talk cuts both ways.

So be careful what you wish for, Ivan; your technocrat Tsar is writing cheques your collective bodies can't cash, and never could.

2. That is, pushing down (or flanking) roads with.... 10-15 riflemen at a time, with effectively zero higher echelon support or coordination, still less elan (motivation), over half of whom these days speak little to no Russian.

....So, appreciating your expressed aversion to antipersonnel mines, which is fully backed by international law, common decency and lived (and died ) experience (btw, doing solar in Vietnam and Cambodia I have encountered officials my age missing legs but always far too polite to mention the cause to the big honky, so please understand my feelings on this aren't stone cold either), isn't the low-tech, to-date-drone-proof solution to these endless mindless trench raids in what is already largely an uninhabiitable wasteland kind of self-evident?

(yes, that florid question is entirely rhetorical; I literally have no idea why it isn't showing horrid, lethal results today. Or maybe it is, without fanfare?)

Actually AP landmines are not outlawed in accordance with the Geneva conventions (CCW). There are restrictions on their usage but the outright ban (Ottawa Convention) is a collective commitment by like-minded nations to no longer purchase or employ them. It holds no real weight under international law beyond a commitment to the convention itself. No one who uses AP landmines in accordance with the CCW rules is going to prosecuted for warcrimes, because according to international law no crime has been committed.

https://disarmament.unoda.org/ccw-amended-protocol-ii/#:~:text=Key Provisions,a certain period of time.

That all said, AP landmines are really a harassing, possibly suppressing weapon and not a wall. Wire obstacle will actually to more damage to trench raids than AP minefields normally can do. The only way to make AP field effective in “stopping” is to plant them in ridiculous densities, which takes a lot of time and resources. FPVs are probably more of a deterrent to trench assaults than AP mines right now. Given that some lines down south have been static for some time, it is theoretically possible to build up AP density, but that is a LOT of ground to try and deny. We are likely talking tens of millions of AP mines. The West can barely keep up on artillery ammo production. AP mines are a whole other thing, especially now that western production has dropped to near zero.

So, I have no doubt both sides are using AP mine systems of a whole bunch of varieties. They are a force multiplier and way to project friction onto an opponent but not decisive in themselves.

Edited August 30 by The_Capt

[Battlefront.com]

4 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

well that is not really true Steve,

Seriously?  I mean... seriously?

Steve

[danfrodo]

5 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Seriously?  I mean... seriously?

Steve

Gambling?  At Rick's Cafe?  I am SHOCKED!  

[paxromana]

7 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

Gambling?  At Rick's Cafe?  I am SHOCKED!  

Indeed.

[Hister]

Sorry to keep on regurgitating the Durov stuff but here goes.

I bumped into a Russian living in Ljubljana, Dmitrii Pugachev, who claims to be an ex Russian state prosecutor and criminal lawyer (for 10 years). He claims to have been a supporter of navalny and got into trouble when his group erected a memorial to Navalny and the war started. Supports Ukraine, is against the war, etc.

He wrote this thing quoted below in our fb Ukraine group when news about Pavel being arrested was released which in my mind makes him a FSB agent working under disguise but I might be over reacting. What do you think? Is he just an average Russian opposition guy or is he an FSB agent who springs in action to muddle the waters sort to speak when he needs to?

 

"Questions and answers about the arrest of Pavle Durov

 - Why was he arrested?

 Because Telegram's end-to-end encryption is as inaccessible to EU and US intelligence hacks as it is to the FSB.  In addition, upon request, Durov refuses to block channels that are controversial to various political forces.  This goes against the goal of full transparency.  Additionally, this arrest sets a precedent for an upcoming major attack on Elon Musk's Platform X, which is critical to US domestic policy concerns.

 - But aren't Telegram used by terrorists, drug mafia and pedophiles to transmit secret messages?

 Of course it is used.  Therefore, the connection is encrypted.  Illegals also use the telephone, electricity, public transport, buy goods in shops and breathe the air.  On this basis, full wiretapping, scanning on the subway, shopping in shops with a passport and a breathalyzer license can be introduced.

 - But then how can the police catch criminals?

 As usual: intelligence work.  By infiltrating their closed groups, provocations and arrests.  The FSB of the Russian Federation does this all the time with dissident groups without having the "secret keys" to Telegram.  Which, by the way, are not physically available at Durov, as they are stored exclusively on the devices of users who establish encrypted communication.

 - But Telegram is used by Putin officials, Z-military officers and the Russian military.  With its help, funds are collected for weapons and ammunition.  The West must lead an information war!

 Telegram is also used by millions of free people, not only in Russia, but also under the yoke of other dictatorships.  It is also used by pro-Ukrainian activists who raise money for the needs of the armed forces of Ukraine and those who like to smoke at military oil depots.  It is used by people in Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc.  Once the encryption algorithm is compromised, it will surely go to the Darknet and become available to the intelligence services of various countries.  Millions of good people will be in danger, thousands will be imprisoned, many will be executed.  And Putin's boys will simply switch to VKontakte or ask Comrade Xi for a new messenger.

 - Isn't it strange that Putin's propaganda and all the Z-nicknames rushed to Durov's defense?  Doesn't that mean he's an agent of the Kremlin?

 When Putin sends a plane to put out fires in Turkey or send bread to starving people in Africa, don't you have Erdogan or Africans as Putin's agents?  This is ordinary political PR.  French bureaucrats have given Kremlin propaganda an excellent reason to shout that "everything is still worse in the West than here, come back!" In addition, there is an opportunity to quietly make a deal with Durov for yourself and force him in his dungeons to hand over the Telegram  Kremlin.  Don't be fooled, remember how Telegram's encryption algorithms have protected us from the FSB all these years and beyond.  Well, of course, do not consider the West worse than the Russian Federation: at least Durov is not being tortured there yet, and there is a chance that everyone can get him out.

 - Why is this so important?  Isn't Pavel Durov a suspicious billionaire in his mind?  Why even bother with him?

 We are not harnessed because of Pavle Durov's personality, but because of the PRINCIPLE.  This principle is the foundation of Western civilization.  What brought the West out of the darkness of the Middle Ages made it possible to build the well-fed and prosperous world as we know it.  Freedom of speech is not a "superstructure" but the deepest "foundation" of civilization.  In the free exchange of ideas, the evolution of rational memes occurs, new knowledge is born, conflicts are resolved without blood, and the endless massacres of state gangs for centuries turn into progress.  Without it, the West will turn into Asiaticism, progress will stop and be replaced by decline and rampage.  There are 193 countries on the planet and only 2 (TWO!) large independent social networks: Telegram and X. Each of them is 96.5 times more important to humanity than the wishes of the bureaucrats of any of the 193 countries.  This goal is worth fighting for."

 

P.S. He didn't budge when I confronted him about Telegram proven to have the ability to see everything posted on its platform.

Edited August 30 by Hister

[Letter from Prague]

Telegram is not end to end encrypted.

You can create one-on-one encrypted chats that work on only one device, but the biggest selling points and main usage of Telegram are group chats and one-way "news" channels, which are only encrypted such that random people listening in won't see the messages, but Telegram servers see everything unencrypted.

That is the official story, anyway, the history of Telegram has few "program your own crypto" moments - programming your on cryptography is a big nono because very few people can do it well and the tiniest mistake or misunderstanding can turn the whole thing broken. There has been few cases like that for Telegram, most famously when they were warned that some techniques are a bad idea, they arrogantly brushed people aside with "we're Russian mathematicians, we know best". So the whole thing can be completely broken, for all we know.

Also the servers that see everything? They are located mostly in Saudi Arabia of all places.

[Carolus]

Not wanting to weigh in on the Durov case, but just as a technical PSA for users of telegram or those who are wondering:

It is possible to have encrypted chats with telegram. This feature has to be specifically activated by the user for a specific 1-on-1 chat.

It is impossible to have encrypted group chats or encrypted channels with several users on telegram. All the channels you see and read stuff on? Entirely unencrypted. 

Only specific 1-on-1 chats can be encrypted - if the feature is specifically turned on before and "Secret Chat" is selected before starting a chat. Otherwise there is no encryption (beyond the data encryption any normal internet app uses - it's not the times of the past anymore when you could sit with a laptop and Wireshark in a lobby and wait for the ethernet password to get sent as raw text like 20 years ago, but this normal encryption is also absolutely zero barrier for law enforcement or, god forbid, an intelligence service).

 

Edit: Crossposted with @Letter from Prague, whoops!

Edited August 30 by Carolus

[FancyCat]

Quote

1/ Moscow police are to be paid a 50,000 ruble ($558) bounty for each person they 'persuade' to sign up for military service, including immigrants and homeless people. The initiative will create more incentives for corruption for Russia's already notoriously corrupt police.

2/ Interior Ministry sources have told the VChK-OGPU Telegram channel that police services in Russia will be incentivised to persuade people to join the armed forces, with bounties of 50,000 rubles in Moscow and 10,000 rubles ($109) in the regions.

 

[kraze]

On 8/28/2024 at 11:13 PM, billbindc said:

Nobody said Telegram was a private network. It was obviously suborned by the Russian state...which state is so inept and resource poor that it's military has been using it extensively to plan operations and communicate. The issue isn't *FSB* visibility into Telegram...it's that it is very likely that France and Five Eyes get a look at whatever small part they haven't already sieved. 

Durov also didn't "walk". He is under judicial supervision, has a court date coming up and has no passport. In the court of public opinion in France, he's being portrayed in French media (which I suggest you read before commenting) as a facilitator of child porn, human trafficking and drug dealers. 

Finally, much like you seem to be unable to differentiate anti-Putin from pro-Putin Russians you seem to think that the West is defined by the worst among us. Points for analytical consistency I guess?

 

I said he "semi-walked" - as in he got released on bail. Of course he still isn't free. But if French see him for what he really is - I'm happy.

It also doesn't matter if some russian is pro-Putin or anti-Putin. Putin is just an executive who was put on the throne by russians to fulfill their demands. It really doesn't matter who manages the empire. Empire is the issue here.

When russians were sending our ancestors to concentration camps in Siberia in 19th century - Putin wasn't born yet. I doubt getting shot in the back of the head by the democratic russian bullet is any different from getting shot by the authoritarian one.

Also I'm one of the most radically pro-Western Ukrainians out there. I know that it's either EU/NATO or we are dead. But I won't hold my breath when I see how people in high places in the West keep looking for "good" russians.

Edited August 30 by kraze

[Astrophel]

2 hours ago, Hister said:

 We are not harnessed because of Pavle Durov's personality, but because of the PRINCIPLE.  This principle is the foundation of Western civilization.  What brought the West out of the darkness of the Middle Ages made it possible to build the well-fed and prosperous world as we know it.  Freedom of speech is not a "superstructure" but the deepest "foundation" of civilization.  In the free exchange of ideas, the evolution of rational memes occurs, new knowledge is born, conflicts are resolved without blood, and the endless massacres of state gangs for centuries turn into progress.  Without it, the West will turn into Asiaticism, progress will stop and be replaced by decline and rampage.  There are 193 countries on the planet and only 2 (TWO!) large independent social networks: Telegram and X. Each of them is 96.5 times more important to humanity than the wishes of the bureaucrats of any of the 193 countries.  This goal is worth fighting for."

 

P.S. He didn't budge when I confronted him about Telegram proven to have the ability to see everything posted on its platform.

This is the poisonous part of the narrative and fits perfectly with the seditious russian attacks on potential fault lines in our western society.  Free speech is NOT the deepest foundation of civilisation, it has always needed careful managing since the first democratic greeks had to deal with sophist orators in their open parliament.  Remember, the Greeks invented ostracism to deal with populists selling snake oil to a gullible public - voices threatening the stability of the state would be expelled from Athens for 10 years on pain of death.

We saw recently in UK how dangerous "free speech" can be to encourage riot and mayhem.  Luckily nobody died.  Every step forward in civilised society has been made with careful attention to the boundaries of what can and cannot be said and published.  It has generally been a crime to try and undermine the state and its institutions by broadcasting misinformation and lies.  Read up on the history of libel laws for an insight into the length and complexity of this discussion

And then he goes on with the other russian talking point - turning into Asiaticism whatever that may be: fear of the other.  He is straight out of the russian playbook and a dangerous individual.

Telegram and X need managing if they are to contribute to progress.  Right now they are contributing to sedition mostly.

[chuckdyke]

Another interesting episode. Subtitles are excellent. 

 

[Carolus]

Could be an accident. Could be Russian meddling.

The interesting part is that it doesn't matter. When Russia kills or injures western citizens, violates Western airspace, or damages military facilties, there is no consequence. China watches, with thousands of regime-loyal, ultra-nationalist students and expats in Western countries waiting eagerly for instructions, and its high-sea fleet pushing other Asian nations out of their own sea territories. 

I do wonder how long this continues until somewhere a real war hawk starts a political campaign in a Western country, one which might have people in his staff which are not experienced, but are very angry, and which would lead to actual big diplomatic problems and actual escalation from the Western side.

The appeasers in power in the West should be careful not to yield too much ground to the peaceniks, isolationists and "friends of Russia" of their staff, because non-isolationist fascism could become a Ying to the current isolationist fascist Yang of the West. And that could become a concern.

 

 

Edited August 30 by Carolus

[Hister]

1 hour ago, Astrophel said:

This is the poisonous part of the narrative and fits perfectly with the seditious russian attacks on potential fault lines in our western society.  Free speech is NOT the deepest foundation of civilisation, it has always needed careful managing since the first democratic greeks had to deal with sophist orators in their open parliament.  Remember, the Greeks invented ostracism to deal with populists selling snake oil to a gullible public - voices threatening the stability of the state would be expelled from Athens for 10 years on pain of death.

We saw recently in UK how dangerous "free speech" can be to encourage riot and mayhem.  Luckily nobody died.  Every step forward in civilised society has been made with careful attention to the boundaries of what can and cannot be said and published.  It has generally been a crime to try and undermine the state and its institutions by broadcasting misinformation and lies.  Read up on the history of libel laws for an insight into the length and complexity of this discussion

And then he goes on with the other russian talking point - turning into Asiaticism whatever that may be: fear of the other.  He is straight out of the russian playbook and a dangerous individual.

Telegram and X need managing if they are to contribute to progress.  Right now they are contributing to sedition mostly.

Yeah, I told him before that his points are a school case of how fsb woud tackle this and asked him if he is an fsb agent.  

I in the past actually reported one Russian individual to our Sova intelligence and security agency and he was dealt with luckily. Slovenia is riddled with Russian agents.  

Edited August 30 by Hister

[Sgt Joch]

8 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Seriously?  I mean... seriously?

Steve

The revised set of official preliminary charges is now available:

https://x.com/Jacques_Pezet/status/1828881941745017122/photo/1
 

The number of charges has been cut by half and the language has been substantially watered down. There is no longer any implication that Durov was personally aware or personally involved in any of these illicit activities.

The real tell is in the third paragraph where they state that Telegram has not been responding to judicial inquiries (“réquisitoires judiciaires “) regarding multiple cases of child pornography, trafficking and hateful speech (“ multiples dossiers portant sur différentes infractions (pédocriminalité, trafics, haine en ligne)”) and that this investigation was started to determine the criminal responsibility of owners of the App in criminal activity committed by App users (“ouvrir une enquête sur l’éventuelle responsabilité pénale des dirigeants de cette messagerie dans la commission de ces infractions “).

This looks more akin to the recent clashes between Twitter and Brazil and Twitter and Australia where national governments are trying to impose national laws on social media Apps with a worldwide reach. These legal clashes happen regularly now, but actually arresting the CEO/owner over it does seem over the top.

 

[acrashb]

3 hours ago, Astrophel said:

Telegram and X need managing if they are to contribute to progress.  Right now they are contributing to sedition mostly.

Telegram I can't speak to.  X, on the other hand, is the main reason that we know how much the various organs of society have lied to us (e.g., most recently Biden's mental decline, laid bare in the debate but readily visible before that for those looking) and for how long (e.g., the Steele Dossier and before).

Free speech is fundamental, and as is well understood, is bounded by false speech that creates a 'clear and present danger' - a danger that is relatively obvious and immediate.  Telling us that it was 'managed' in Ancient Greece by ostracism simply tells us that our social technology has improved since then, as one would hope.
 

As for managing misinformation:

• as ever, the correct solution to misinformation is good information, attractively and therefore consumably packaged.
• putting governments and/or agencies in charge of misinformation is like putting an arsonist in charge of a fire department.

X now runs on the "freedom of speech, but not of reach" model.  So 'hateful' speech is demonetized and not pushed into feeds - it's still findable, like everything else on the internet, but is not amplified.  And X will and does comply with lawful demands.

I've come around to the idea that the various platforms are like utilities.  If the hydro company dislikes me, they still sell me electricity, but will of course stop in the face of a lawful order (e.g., stopping hydro going to a meth lab).

There's a lot of crap on X - including lunatic ideas like flat earth - which I don't see because I've "liked" things I like and blocked things I don't, leading the algorithm to present mostly good (by my lights) stuff.

• NOELreports (Ukraine)
• OSINTdefender (now mostly middle east)
• WarMonitor (Ukraine)
• WarTranslated (Ukraine)
• Institute for the Study of War (mostly Ukraine)
• Lots of awesome cat videos
• etc.

X is blocked / 'restricted' in Russia for a reason.  Although it is still accessible through VPN and via an Onion service (if this is still running).

 

 

Edited August 30 by acrashb

[LongLeftFlank]

20 minutes ago, acrashb said:

Telegram I can't speak to.  X, on the other hand, is the main reason that we know how much the various organs of society have lied to us (e.g., most recently Biden's mental decline, laid bare in the debate but readily visible before that for those looking) and for how long (e.g., the Steele Dossier and before).

Free speech is fundamental, and as is well understood, is bounded by false speech that creates a 'clear and present danger' - a danger that is relatively obvious and immediate.  Telling us that it was 'managed' in Ancient Greece by ostracism simply tells us that our social technology has improved since then, as one would hope.
 

As for managing misinformation:

• as ever, the correct solution to misinformation is good information, attractively and therefore consumably packaged.
• putting governments and/or agencies in charge of misinformation is like putting an arsonist in charge of a fire department.

X now runs on the "freedom of speech, but not of reach" model.  So 'hateful' speech is demonetized and not pushed into feeds - it's still findable, like everything else on the internet, but is not amplified.  And X will and does comply with lawful demands.

I've come around to the idea that the various platforms are like utilities.  If the hydro company dislikes me, they still sell me electricity, but will of course stop in the face of a lawful order (e.g., stopping hydro going to a meth lab).

There's a lot of crap on X - including lunatic ideas like flat earth - which I don't see because I've "liked" things I like and blocked things I don't, leading the algorithm to present mostly good (by my lights) stuff.

• NOELreports (Ukraine)
• OSINTdefender (now mostly middle east)
• WarMonitor (Ukraine)
• WarTranslated (Ukraine)
• Institute for the Study of War (mostly Ukraine)
• Lots of awesome cat videos
• etc.

X is blocked / 'restricted' in Russia for a reason.  Although it is still accessible through VPN and via an Onion service (if this is still running).

 

 

Yes, I too am wary of 'right thinking' elites feeling entitled to tell the 'low information' plebs what to believe and what's good for them. Which tends to be -- surprise! -- whatever benefits said elites.

I note also that one of the most prominent victims of ostracism was one Pericles.

I won't even mention Socrates.

But this discussion is really wandering far away from the Ukraine war here, however interesting.

[Lieutenant Ash]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/sweden-warns-of-heightened-risk-of-russian-sabotage/ar-AA1pEWZQ?ocid=socialshare&pc=NMTS&cvid=1b3538423dd94741b05f8122b0a14251&ei=142

Sweden reports heightened risks of Russian sabotage attempts on defence and other associated industries.

[Kraft]

45 minutes ago, acrashb said:

X, on the other hand

Hasnt a large part of the financing for ultra pro-trump anti-Ukraine Musk in buying Twitter come from 2 russian, putin connected oligarchs?

You may have tweaked your feed to what you like but musk can and does limit things he does not like and can behind the scenes give tweets he does like algorithm power.

Nothing about this is free speech.

At best, you've given a governments oversight, bound by laws and changing staff, to a billionaire with a fragile ego and russian funding. "Curious"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/what-do-xs-alleged-ties-to-russian-oligarchs-mean-for-musk/a-70088598

 

Edited August 30 by Kraft

[BamaMatt]

11 minutes ago, Kraft said:

Hasnt a large part of the financing for ultra pro-trump anti-Ukraine Musk in buying Twitter come from 2 russian, putin connected oligarchs?

 

 

Did you even read the article?

From the article:   The filing, obtained by the Washington Post, lists around 100 entities and individuals,...One of firms listed is 8VC, a venture capitalist company co-founded by Joe Lonsdale, co-founder of intelligence contractor and data analysis platform Palantir...On the fund's website, Denis Aven and Jack Moshkovich pop up in the staff section — the sons of sanctioned Russian oligarchs Petr Aven and Vadim Moshkovich.

When does two employees of one fund out of 100 entities and individuals become "a large part of the financing for ultra pro-trump anti-Ukraine Musk in buying Twitter come from 2 russian, putin connected oligarchs"

[Kraft]

39 minutes ago, BamaMatt said:

When does two employees of one fund out of 100 entities and individuals become "a large part of the financing for ultra pro-trump anti-Ukraine Musk in buying Twitter come from 2 russian, putin connected oligarchs"

Because its easy to funnel the money through this Hedge fund? He also worked for Peter Thiel, who is spouting the same vatnik talking points.

Remove the about 35 duplicates from the various fidelity funds and the list is quite a bit shorter.

Musk made a complete 180° policy switch and is very interested in the common putin stooge talking points, before he was tweeting rainbow flags and equal rights for gays, and now he is the biggest enabler of society splitting extremists, but only of the putin friendly type.

Quote

Did you even read the article?

Yes.

Edited August 30 by Kraft

[billbindc]

7 hours ago, Letter from Prague said:

Telegram is not end to end encrypted.

You can create one-on-one encrypted chats that work on only one device, but the biggest selling points and main usage of Telegram are group chats and one-way "news" channels, which are only encrypted such that random people listening in won't see the messages, but Telegram servers see everything unencrypted.

That is the official story, anyway, the history of Telegram has few "program your own crypto" moments - programming your on cryptography is a big nono because very few people can do it well and the tiniest mistake or misunderstanding can turn the whole thing broken. There has been few cases like that for Telegram, most famously when they were warned that some techniques are a bad idea, they arrogantly brushed people aside with "we're Russian mathematicians, we know best". So the whole thing can be completely broken, for all we know.

Also the servers that see everything? They are located mostly in Saudi Arabia of all places.

And the end to end encryption Telegram uses is not all that hot. It is quite unlikely that it hasn't been broken to some degree by US agencies. 

[Battlefront.com]

58 minutes ago, BamaMatt said:

Did you even read the article?

From the article:   The filing, obtained by the Washington Post, lists around 100 entities and individuals,...One of firms listed is 8VC, a venture capitalist company co-founded by Joe Lonsdale, co-founder of intelligence contractor and data analysis platform Palantir...On the fund's website, Denis Aven and Jack Moshkovich pop up in the staff section — the sons of sanctioned Russian oligarchs Petr Aven and Vadim Moshkovich.

When does two employees of one fund out of 100 entities and individuals become "a large part of the financing for ultra pro-trump anti-Ukraine Musk in buying Twitter come from 2 russian, putin connected oligarchs"

Agreed, but the primary source of revenue for Twitter is advertising and that has decidedly swung to the hard right.  ANYBODY that looks at the X articles posted here can see that for themselves.  The ads are now almost exclusively right wing messaging, including that we're about to have a civil war in the US.

Also, I always chuckle at the right bleating on and on about freedom of speech and then, when they get the keys to power, quickly start shutting it down.  There's a large number of tangible examples of this on X since Musk took over, with arbitrary bans on people from the middle and left while the right wing gets no such treatment.  Here is the latest where Twitter labeled an NPR story about Trump as "Warning: this link may be unsafe,”

https://news.yahoo.com/news/why-did-elon-musk-x-191202552.html

So, let's be clear.  History has shown, and is now showing yet again, that the more extreme the political beliefs the more they try to limit the speech of others. Musk is in total control of X and he is, by any reasonable definition, a person who holds extreme political views.  Extreme belief in true freedom of speech is NOT one of them.

Steve

[Carolus]

2 hours ago, acrashb said:

Telegram I can't speak to.  X, on the other hand,

...from that part onwards I imagine most people could perfectly predict what the rest of the post would contain. I certainly did. 

It is amazing how easily people can be programmed nowadays as long as you title the script "freedom of speech" and "marketplace of ideas" before you execute it. Like clockwork. 

[acrashb]

9 minutes ago, billbindc said:

And the end to end encryption Telegram uses is not all that hot. It is quite unlikely that it hasn't been broken to some degree by US agencies. 

Telegram uses MTProto 2.0, a custom cryptographic protocol.  As I told an entrepreneur at one point, "if we develop our own cryptography, we will be laughed out of every boardroom and not allowed back".

At the very least, Telegram using it's own crypto and not allowing audits violates the zero-trust model.  Users must trust Telegram.

 

[Kraft]

17 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Here is the latest where Twitter labeled an NPR story about Trump as "Warning: this link may be unsafe,”

https://news.yahoo.com/news/why-did-elon-musk-x-191202552.html

So, let's be clear.  History has shown, and is now showing yet again, that the more extreme the political beliefs the more they try to limit the speech of others. Musk is in total control of X and he is, by any reasonable definition, a person who holds extreme political views.  Extreme belief in true freedom of speech is NOT one of them.

Steve

The same happened to the Bellingcat ! Article about the childrens cancer hospital that was targeted by russian ballistic missiles.

The article went in detail to prove it was russian ballistic missiles, none shot down by patriot, and a deliberate targeted attack.

Musk pressed the 'this link is a virus' button and the russian stooges spread their misinfo, quoting infowars and literal russian government "sources" claiming zelensky bombed it..

Edited August 30 by Kraft