Double Deuce Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Since we're talking about briefings, anyone know if a set of CMCW Official Briefing Template stuff is in the works? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SovietOnion Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Cabal2323 said: I wasn't being nasty at all as a long time customer. Spending money doesn't excuse you from being nasty. Be constructive, not destructive with your feedback. Instead of implying the target of your criticism is a child, perhaps act like an adult and mind your manners. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SovietOnion Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cabal2323 said: I wasn't being nasty at all as a long time customer. Edited May 11, 2021 by SovietOnion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) So, because this was becoming a rather vocal issue, and I began to doubt us for a second, I exported 19 of the standalone scenario briefings (both Blue and Red) out of the commercial scenarios and cut and pasted them into Word. That came to 20727 words in total. Scrubbing through them all and using the Word spelling checker, we come to a grand total of 15 real spelling mistakes (not military slang or funny abbreviations) out of the sample. This yields an error rate of about .07%, which in just about any industry standard is well below the accepted manufacturing rate errors (outside of the nuclear and space industry). It is even lower than accepted experimental error in engineering. (https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/virtual_lab/LabZero/Experimental_Error.shtml#:~:text=Engineers also need to be,analysis techniques to get any). The worst offending scenario had 5 spelling errors and the writer is not a native English speaker, but we can make sure we get help with that. So now I am going to do a grammar and punctuation check but from that I can see so far (again thank you MS Word) we are doing better than a lot of adult students I know. Now we will continue to try and get better in all things in order to continue a solid wargame to you all...thank you for your patience. [Note, I am sorry but I cannot share the Word Doc here as it is company IP etc.] Oh and as an aside, I hold a Master's degree and still managed to spell "Frankfurt" wrong in Valley of Ashes, so human error happens. Edited May 11, 2021 by The_Capt 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 And a quick follow up. So looking at grammar and punctuation (here again MS Word has a very handy "double blue line system) we are looking at 86 errors in total so an error rate of about 0.4% of the briefings sampled. These were mostly Word disagreeing with coma placement but there were missing periods, missing hyphens and the dreaded double colon. Plus a few spacing issues and the odd dropped 's' which makes for some weird noun-verb alignments. So based on this, our spelling is not that bad but we could use some work on punctuation...and flossing, always getting in trouble for the lack of flossing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrTom Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) While you're at it @The_Capt there is one error that is so incredibly egregious that I in fact lose sleep over it at night, tossing and turning in the throes of mild annoyance: The scenario Killing Time at Kirtof in fact depicts a killing time at Kirtorf Anyway, you should see how bad real engineers (outside of education) are at spelling. I've seen some pretty obvious mistakes in several MS and NAS specs I've read over the years! Edited May 11, 2021 by HerrTom Even I can't do grammar good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 minute ago, HerrTom said: While you're at it @The_Capt there is one error that is so incredibly egregious that I in fact lose sleep over it at night, tossing and turning in the throes of mild annoyance: The scenario Killing Time at Kirtof in fact depicts a killing time at Kirtorf Anyway, you should see how bad real engineers (outside of education) are at spelling. I've seen some pretty obvious mistakes in several MS and NAS specs I've read over the years! Oh yes that is true. Word does not pick up proper name misspelling (and German towns were murder for this) so that may add to our total somewhat. But if one is not familiar with the locale I would hope that they would not lose sleep or in-game enjoyment...except in this case obviously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) The scenario briefings can be very cryptic. I am not really interested in the creative writing skills of the creator of a scenario. To admire his map making skills and triggers of the AI is enough. I would appreciate if they made a situation clear. Edited May 11, 2021 by chuckdyke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IICptMillerII Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 This thread should be renamed to "Grammar nazis: A Case Study" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornGinger Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) The briefings could need a bit of proofreading. BFC is a small company but that shouldn't need to be an excuse as the company is based in an English speaking country. If BFC was stationed in for example Mexico or China it would be more understandable if the scenarios that come with the games have broken English. Quote All your base are belong to us The famous words in the game Zero Wing. Maybe those who make scenarios which come with the games and don't speak English very good could use the spell and grammar checking option in a text program. There are free ones to download and use. Briefings that are in the scenarios we get from the Scenario Depot are another matter as they are so called custom made and there's no need to complain about those. Edited May 11, 2021 by BornGinger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Got to admit I dislike reading longish mission texts and "too much" info generally. I skip these most the time, whatever the writing style otherwise. Would prefer a full screen tac map (in briefing section) instead. Most the time would suffice to me personally to have relevant data all included here (simple sketch map and few points of interest). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 minute ago, RockinHarry said: Got to admit I dislike reading longish mission texts and "too much" info generally. I skip these most the time, whatever the writing style otherwise. Would prefer a full screen tac map (in briefing section) instead. Most the time would suffice to me personally to have relevant data all included here (simple sketch map and few points of interest). The same! Sometimes briefings contain impirtant info (on enemy and its plans), but most of the time it is dull and empty text masquerading military orders. Every man to his taste, but I generally prefer tactical map to briefings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng cavscout Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 2 hours ago, The_Capt said: And a quick follow up. So looking at grammar and punctuation (here again MS Word has a very handy "double blue line system) we are looking at 86 errors in total so an error rate of about 0.4% of the briefings sampled. These were mostly Word disagreeing with coma placement but there were missing periods, missing hyphens and the dreaded double colon. Plus a few spacing issues and the odd dropped 's' which makes for some weird noun-verb alignments. So based on this, our spelling is not that bad but we could use some work on punctuation...and flossing, always getting in trouble for the lack of flossing. I hate misplaced comas. Next thing you know you've got ESP and you're the main character in "The Deadzone" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, The_Capt said: Word does not pick up proper name misspelling (and German towns were murder for this) so that may add to our total somewhat. Play around with Word there are more languages to choose from apart from English. Kind regards. Edited May 11, 2021 by chuckdyke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 4 hours ago, The_Capt said: Oh yes that is true. Word does not pick up proper name misspelling (and German towns were murder for this) so that may add to our total somewhat. But if one is not familiar with the locale I would hope that they would not lose sleep or in-game enjoyment...except in this case obviously. Just want to highlight again that scenario has a duplicate paragraph. In case you ever want to fix the briefings. Again, don't mind. The briefings are not better or worse than the other games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, stikkypixie said: scenario has a duplicate paragraph If you mean this Quote Mission Team Papa is deployed to delay the expected enemy advance across the KIRTORF plateau by 60 minutes Team Papa is deployed to delay the expected enemy advance across the KIRTORF plateau by 60 minutes That was just me being too clever by half. When I was in the British Army it was (and likely still is ) convention when giving orders that the mission paragraph was always repeated for emphasis. Apologies it caused confusion P 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 5 hours ago, The_Capt said: Oh yes that is true. Word does not pick up proper name misspelling (and German towns were murder for this) so that may add to our total somewhat. But if one is not familiar with the locale I would hope that they would not lose sleep or in-game enjoyment...except in this case obviously. While we're at the German city names, there's a spelling error in the briefing map (should read "Würzburg", not "-berg") Also, there's this road sign in the flavor objects, I'm not sure if "Hunfield" is a kind of inside joke among American soldiers and was put there deliberately, but the real town is called "Hünfeld", of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarletto Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Cabal2323 said: I wasn't being nasty at all as a long time customer. I was pointing out a definite quality control issue. For a company that wants their games to reach as a large of an audience as possible (steam), they have to do better. To say you didn't have enough times to even open up and read the briefings says everything. You should be embarrassed to admit that in a public forum. To use the excuse that is was rushed is also lame. When the restaurant F's up your meal because they were rushed, I am sure you don't take the same attitude. I could have proofed all those briefings in a single evening. Sorry, not buying it. I can read 30 students papers in a hour and their grammar and spelling is atrocious. By the way I do enjoy the game. The graphics engine is at the end though. Can't see myself investing in another game after this if it is the same engine. 30 student papers in a hour, not a very good Teacher then. Would not trust any grade you gave, unless all you asked your students was to write Cat. Anyway the more you write, the more nasty and trollish you appear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexUK Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 On 5/10/2021 at 1:33 AM, Cabal2323 said: I have been with the company since some of their first games. I will start by saying this is the sloppiest release I have ever seen. Has anyone at Battlefront actually played this game? I mean really played it. Like read the briefings start to finish? Who proofed the briefings? Certainly not a grown adult. I feel like some of the briefings are [story] being told by a 4th grader. Not the level of excellence we have seen in all previous briefings in games. They are full of grammatical errors and incomplete sentences. I get the impression they were written by a non- English speaker. I teach 4th grade writing and math and I just couldn't shake that I was reading a very novice [writers] writing. Take some pride gentlemen. 11 hours ago, Cabal2323 said: I wasn't being nasty at all as a long time customer. I was pointing out a definite quality control issue. For a company that wants their games to reach as a large of an audience as possible (steam), they have to do better. To say you didn't have enough times to even open up and read the briefings says everything. You should be embarrassed to admit that in a public forum. To use the excuse that is was rushed is also lame. When the restaurant F's up your meal because they were rushed, I am sure you don't take the same attitude. I could have proofed all those briefings in a single evening. Sorry, not buying it. I can read 30 students papers in a hour and their grammar and spelling is atrocious. By the way I do enjoy the game. The graphics engine is at the end though. Can't see myself investing in another game after this if it is the same engine. I proofed a bit. I wasn't keen on the tone either. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Der Zeitgeist said: I was hoping for this one myself ... Some might say it is appropriately metaphorical for this thread ... 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domfluff Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Something for the first module, perhaps. Can you find a scenario set around Wank that really demands being made? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 It is a real town they also used to make Wankel Engines somewhere in Germany. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 47 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: It is a real town they also used to make Wankel Engines somewhere in Germany. Yes I know ... I've been there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbarbaric Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 12 minutes ago, Combatintman said: Yes I know ... I've been there. meh, stop bragging like that is some kind of achievement. let's face it, we have all been there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 hours ago, domfluff said: Something for the first module, perhaps. Can you find a scenario set around Wank that really demands being made? It would probably be a bit w ... you get it ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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