Ukraine purchases/ed Javelin missile system. More to come?

[evilman222]

1 hour ago, John Kettler said:

Also iffy would be Russian use of Active Defense Systems while enshrouded in that turret cage!

From what I understand this is not nearly as much of a problem IRL than it is in CMBS. While Arena-M is supposedly able to deal with top-attack munitions, it does not appear to be in widespread use, and the original Arena (which I don't think is widely used either) is unable to counter top-attack weapons. While I can't say for certain, I suspect that Russia is unable to produce some of the electronic components of Arena (much as their thermal systems were historically reliant on foreign components), which has hamstrung the deployment of APSs for the past few years.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Has anybody been able to get Ukrainian troops to fire Javelin in the game?

I've created a very large (regimental sized) core file where Ukrainians can use Acquire to get Javelin CLUs & missiles from (Ex-Stryker) ammo dumps.....However they seem very reluctant to use them, against a building in my initial tests. 

Setting things up so they can take a pot-shot at a tank (before the rest of the three mech battalions obliterate it) is a lot of work, so before I undertake it.....Does anyone already know the answer?

@MOS:96B2P @Combatintman @MikeyD

[Kinophile]

6 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Has anybody been able to get Ukrainian troops to fire Javelin in the game?

I've created a very large (regimental sized) core file where Ukrainians can use Acquire to get Javelin CLUs & missiles from (Ex-Stryker) ammo dumps.....However they seem very reluctant to use them, against a building in my initial tests. 

Setting things up so they can take a pot-shot at a tank (before the rest of the three mech battalions obliterate it) is a lot of work, so before I undertake it.....Does anyone already know the answer?

@MOS:96B2P @Combatintman @MikeyD

To be clear, the UKR troops WILL fire a Jav against a hostile tank?

[Artkin]

@Sgt.Squarehead@Kinophile

Bada boom.

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

15 hours ago, Kinophile said:

To be clear, the UKR troops WILL fire a Jav against a hostile tank?

That was what I was trying to determine without setting up (yet another) test scenario myself.....Many thanks to @Artkin for doing so. 

Looks like it should be possible to use CM:BS to model a contemporary scuffle without too much difficulty.....With a few mods it could be pretty convincing.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Armorgunner]

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That was what I was trying to determine without setting up (yet another) test scenario myself.....Many thanks to @Artkin for doing so. 

Looks like it should be possible to use CM:BS to model a contemporary scuffle without too much difficulty.....With a few mods it could be pretty convincing.

Take it easy Andy. Maybe the New Year bone, gives you UKR Javelins? Right mait  

[John Kettler]

Just found a brand new video showing lots of great imagery (some from very close and above) of multiple Russian overhead armor configurations, some simple, others quite elaborate. The video mentions both the Bayraktar TB 2 drone and the Javelin as being design drivers, in terms of threats. The video specifically references the T-72B3M as having the overhead armor. The comments are quite amusing,
 

 Regards,

John Kettler

Edited January 7, 2022 by John Kettler

[John Kettler]

From an almost brand new YouTuber named Rus, listed as living in the US, comes this extremely well done video which gets into the meat of the screens, if you will, including the harsh  lessons of two wars.
 

Regards,

John Kettler

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Silly hats are all the rage, it seems! 

Suspect we'll see sandbags stacked on them when the tanks are in fixed defences.

PS - It amused me that in the first video, the presenter immediately starts talking away about brand new T-72B3Ms, while the video is simultaneously showing a comparatively uncommon T-72B1 obr.1986. 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Sgt.Squarehead

[chuckdyke]

I can see the barrier balloons making a comeback. It worked during the Blitz and Normandy. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Drones are typically a wee bit smaller than a Ju.88! 

This might be an option:

[Armorgunner]

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Silly hats are all the rage, it seems! 

Suspect we'll see sandbags stacked on them when the tanks are in fixed defences.

PS - It amused me that in the first video, the presenter immediately starts talking away about brand new T-72B3Ms, while the video is simultaneously showing a comparatively uncommon T-72B1 obr.1986. 

 

I f they put sandbags on top of the bar armor, they are utterly stupid. Since bar armor is not for early detonation. Its there to shave the warhead, so it can´t produce the plasma beam. But you already know that, so why do you think they put sandbags there?

[Sgt.Squarehead]

12 hours ago, Armorgunner said:

Since bar armor is not for early detonation. Its there to shave the warhead, so it can´t produce the plasma beam.

That's how it defeats shaped charges, not EFPs.....I believe Javelin uses an EFP.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Armorgunner]

12 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That's how it defeats shaped charges, not EFPs.....I believe Javelin uses an EFP.

Interesting!

But according to Wikipedia it uses a traditional shaped charge.

" The Javelin missile's tandem warhead is a HEAT type.^[7] This round utilizes an explosive shaped charge to create a stream of superplastically deformed metal formed from trumpet-shaped metallic liners. The result is a narrow high velocity particle stream that can penetrate armor." 

FGM-148 Javelin - Wikipedia

TOW-2B Top attack missile uses an EFP warhead though. BGM-71 TOW - Wikipedia So you maybe mixed them up? Sweden was first with top attack missiles in 1988, with the BILL 1 Top attack - Wikipedia. And our joint England/Sweden missile (NLAW, MBT LAW, Dont know what you call them in UK, we call them Rb 57) use the BILL 2 warhead with 2 EFP warheads I belive? At least the main warhead is a EFP.

 

But I would want to know if bar armor is working against EFP´s to. But since EFP is not contact triggered. BAR armor should have no effect against EFP warheads. Since they detonate above the BAR armor?

Edited January 8, 2022 by Armorgunner

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Ah, maybe I was confusing Javelin with TOW-2B.....Getting old & senile! 

[Armorgunner]

On 1/8/2022 at 7:38 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Ah, maybe I was confusing Javelin with TOW-2B.....Getting old & senile! 

Welcome to the club

[Artkin]

On 1/8/2022 at 1:38 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Ah, maybe I was confusing Javelin with TOW-2B.....Getting old & senile! 

This might be impossible unless there's a way to dismount the tow from one of the american vehicles. This might be possible? I forget in what instances you can do this

[Sgt.Squarehead]

The only way to get Ukrainians (&/or Uncons in CM:SF2) to use TOW would be mods (of the US unit & voice files).

[John Kettler]

Haiduk,

To your knowledge, have the Estonians sent Ukraine any Javelins yet? If yes, how many, please, if known? Also, the recently delivered to Ukraine ~200,000 pounds of lethal aid from the US is supposed to have Javelins as part of the poorly characterized package. Any idea how many arrived? Lastly, what's the most recent count on the NLAW Express flights from the UK? The last number I saw was 8. Using the supposedly conservative figure of 216 NLAW per C-17, that means Ukraine has gotten 1728 NLAWs from the UK.

Regards,

John Kettler

[The_MonkeyKing]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43648/ukrainian-troops-test-javelin-missile-against-russian-cage-style-improvised-tank-armor

 

[Haiduk]

16 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Haiduk,

To your knowledge, have the Estonians sent Ukraine any Javelins yet? If yes, how many, please, if known? Also, the recently delivered to Ukraine ~200,000 pounds of lethal aid from the US is supposed to have Javelins as part of the poorly characterized package. Any idea how many arrived? Lastly, what's the most recent count on the NLAW Express flights from the UK? The last number I saw was 8. Using the supposedly conservative figure of 216 NLAW per C-17, that means Ukraine has gotten 1728 NLAWs from the UK.

Regards,

John Kettler

US permited that Baltic countries would send different weapon (Javelin, Stingers and some other), but they didn't do it yet. Maybe it will happen in nearest time. USA already sent three planes with M141, Javelins and some sort of small arms bullets, maybe for sniper rifles. Reportedly 300 Javelin missiles have arrived.

UK oficially reported about 2000 NLAWs  

[John Kettler]

3 hours ago, Haiduk said:

US permited that Baltic countries would send different weapon (Javelin, Stingers and some other), but they didn't do it yet. Maybe it will happen in nearest time. USA already sent three planes with M141, Javelins and some sort of small arms bullets, maybe for sniper rifles. Reportedly 300 Javelin missiles have arrived.

UK oficially reported about 2000 NLAWs  

Haiduk,

Many thanks! By my math, and absent any more than 8 C-17 loads of NLAW, the UA has now recently received over 2000 ATGMs, of which roughly 15% are Javelins and the rest NLAWs. Definitely food for thought across the border!

Regards,

John Kettler

 

[Haiduk]

Due to newest information, now we have 377 Javelin launchers and 1200 missiles for them

USA is going to send more then 40 planes with a weapon and ammunition. Seven already have deliverd own cargo

So, what we received except Javelins and M141:

- Mk.19 III grenade launchers

- grenades for them

- 7.62x51 mm bullets

- MG belts with 5.56x45 mm bullets for M249 MG. There is unknown either M249 arrived too or will be next, or this is ammunitin for Ukrainain Fort-401 MG (licensed Negev), which has limited usage in National Guard 

- XM162 buckshot for shotgans. I don't know why this.

Aditionally helmets HGU-56/P RWH and NV googles AN/AVS-9 were bought in USA, which will allow to train 25 helicopter crews for night missions. Before this neither Mi-24 nor Mi-8 crews had the ability to night flights.  

Edited February 4, 2022 by Haiduk

[Bufo]

Does Ukraine have anything to fire 7.62 NATO?

Edited February 5, 2022 by Bufo

[Haiduk]

3 hours ago, Bufo said:

Does Ukraine have anything to fire 7.62 NATO?

Since 2020 sniper rifle UAR-10 (based on Zbroyar Z-10) in 7.62x51 almost completely substituted SVD rifles, which almost exhausted own barrels resourse for years of war. But even before 2020, rifles Z-10 and some other in .308 caliber already were on armament of different sniper units.

UAR-10

Edited February 5, 2022 by Haiduk