Ukraine purchases/ed Javelin missile system. More to come?

[Haiduk]

1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

How much of a role do you think the warm weather is playing in this situation?  It has been 40 & 50 degrees Fahrenheit.  There was even some rain a few days ago.  Frozen ground would be better for a quick advance.  Vehicles would not be as dependent on improved roads.  Especially the follow on logistic vehicles. 

A decision may have to be made.  Fight in the mud, risk bogging down, and lose the ability for a quick, short blitzkrieg type war.   Or go home?  What's your opinion? 

Also I was curious about defensive measures.  Just in broad general terms.  I've really not seen anything on the news about this.  I would think that the Ukrainians would have mobilized every piece of construction equipment in the country.  Both government and private equipment.  Digging anti-tank ditches, blowing bridges and preparing other bridges to be quickly blown, obstacle belts etc.  Anything, in broad general terms, you can talk about?  

   

I doubt Putin will launch large scale war, but can attack on Donbas only for one reason - to force Ukraine to the direct negotiation with "republics". The war of 2014-15 was a "war of artillery", so this will take place and in 2022. So, I don't see any obstacles for "fight in the mud". Debaltsevo battle, for example, partially was like that.  If Russia will attack openly along whole border, they will use mass helicopter landings and missile strikes

Since 2015-2016 there are two defensive lines already built on Donbas. Other activities around possible invasion are not disclosed. There is also very few info in social networks about Ukrainian troops movements, though i have seen news about some counter-measures on Kyiv direction. Already three days our troops and dozen of frontline setlements on Donbas are under continous fire of 120-122-152  calibers 80-100 shelling per a day, most of them with over 82 mm calibers. But this is just pressure of Putin and "invitation" to concessions on Russian terms. Next week can be a tipping point.

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Haiduk

[John Kettler]

On 1/7/2022 at 8:24 AM, Armorgunner said:

I f they put sandbags on top of the bar armor, they are utterly stupid. Since bar armor is not for early detonation. Its there to shave the warhead, so it can´t produce the plasma beam. But you already know that, so why do you think they put sandbags there?

Armorgunner,

There is no plasma jet created by a shaped charge detonation. This is explicitly stated on the second and third pages of this link,  which is a US Army overview of the shaped charge concept.

https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/terrorism_and_pyrotechnics/explosives/Shaped_Charges_Penetrators/Shaped Charge Concept, An Overview - Walters.pdf


An Overview of the Shaped Charge Concept

William Walters Mathematical Sciences Center of Excellence Department of Mathematical Sciences
U. S. Military Academy, West Point, NY

(Visiting Scientist from Weapons and Materials Research Directorate U. S. Army Research Laboratory
Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD)
 

Detailed discussions of the shaped charge concept and an extensive list of sources (too numerous to list here) are available elsewhere, e. g., [1], [2], [3], [4]. This concept is not well understood by people outside the warhead community. For example, the jet is not a “cutting plasma”, it is not a liquefied or molten metal jet, the cone does not impact the

armor intact, the jet temperature is not 20,000 C, and the density of the jet is not several times that of steel, and the jet does not burn its way through armor, as reported in many newspaper, TV, and even semi-technical journal articles.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited February 22, 2022 by John Kettler

[Armorgunner]

On 2/22/2022 at 7:03 AM, John Kettler said:

Armorgunner,

There is no plasma jet created by a shaped charge detonation. This is explicitly stated on the second and third pages of this link,  which is a US Army overview of the shaped charge concept.

https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/terrorism_and_pyrotechnics/explosives/Shaped_Charges_Penetrators/Shaped Charge Concept, An Overview - Walters.pdf


An Overview of the Shaped Charge Concept

William Walters Mathematical Sciences Center of Excellence Department of Mathematical Sciences
U. S. Military Academy, West Point, NY

(Visiting Scientist from Weapons and Materials Research Directorate U. S. Army Research Laboratory
Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD)
 

Detailed discussions of the shaped charge concept and an extensive list of sources (too numerous to list here) are available elsewhere, e. g., [1], [2], [3], [4]. This concept is not well understood by people outside the warhead community. For example, the jet is not a “cutting plasma”, it is not a liquefied or molten metal jet, the cone does not impact the

armor intact, the jet temperature is not 20,000 C, and the density of the jet is not several times that of steel, and the jet does not burn its way through armor, as reported in many newspaper, TV, and even semi-technical journal articles.

Regards,

John Kettler

I was a little fast on the keyboard, when I wrote that to Andy

[Haiduk]

New party of Stingers, in this time from Latvia.

[John Kettler]

22 hours ago, Armorgunner said:

I was a little fast on the keyboard, when I wrote that to Andy

Armorgunner,

Happens to the best of us. When over and over again you read and hear "plasma", it's easy to slip up and write it yourself. 

Haiduk,

Sure hope they unloaded swiftly and dispersed those Stingers--so as not to win a Kalibr strike!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Haiduk]

@John Kettler

At least one helicopter was downed with Stinger

[kluge]

Speaking of bar armor

 

[Haiduk]

AT-4 already arrived

[Kinophile]

I hate those in-game. So hard to get a good kill v CMBS armor/aps.

[Haiduk]

Browning M2 arrived

[Haiduk]

Now M14 %)

 

[Haiduk]

Ukraine purchased 5100 light AT weapon MATADOR for 25 millions Euro. First 2450 launchers already in Ukraine, rest will come up to the end of May

This is Israeli-Singapoure design weapon, which produces in Germany

[Thewood1]

Interesting video on ATGM vs tank in Ukraine.

 

[Erwin]

It's not just the traditional "tank" that needs changing, but probably ships and probably any manned craft.  Working with DoD contractors some years ago we concluded that the future to be in mass (relatively inexpensive) robot/drone swarms.  At least until all the high tech runs out or is destroyed and we end up with man-man "caveman" era combat albeit with guns etc.  

The current ideas to counter to mass swarm attacks are EW and/or laser/railgun technology that can fire many times per second and not run out of "ammo".  

Perhaps what we think about as a heavily armored and protected vehicle will be the transport for the railgun.  However, as tech gets lighter and smaller that tech too could be mounted on massed aerial autonomous craft.  

 

[Haiduk]

20 Australian Bushmasters arrived to Ukraine

Edited April 8, 2022 by Haiduk

[Haiduk]

Mini-Bayraktar UAVs probably in Ukrainan service now: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/04/new-bayraktar-uavs-spotted-in-ukraine.html

 

[Haiduk]