Why ride the suicidal Hanomag halftrack when you can walk?

[Bulletpoint]

Also, have any of you noticed the things that look like gun ports on the sides of some of the halftracks? Especially the one that has the number "132".

[Rokko]

Those are stowage compartments.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Rokko

[BLSTK]

 

There may have been a shortage of fuel.

But apparently there was no shortage of black paint.

[Combatintman]

There may have been a shortage of fuel.

But apparently there was no shortage of black paint.

You are aware that when you have to explain the joke it won't be funny - but just to prove me wrong ... over to you.

[RockinHarry]

As said, a slight silhouette/stance improvement for sitting psoldiers can be achieved by swapping 2 animation files. See screenshot here:

For testing purposes (kar98k-seated-knees-high.ani - renamed to - kar98k-seated.ani) - effects riflemen:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8si8k9hz7mnmb2/kar98k-seated.ani?dl=0

and (unarmed-seated-knees-highest.ani - renamed to - unarmed-seated.ani) - effects others, like the lMG men:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rvtnrt03n3rylei/unarmed-seated.ani?dl=0

place into data/z

Edited March 12, 2016 by RockinHarry

[RockinHarry]

I think you're right. if we imagine that the troops are standing up and keeping one arm outside the halftrack to steady themselves as it rolls along. Incoming bullets might hit the side and get deflected upwards, hitting the arm and elbow, but would be stopped by a wooden log. And the log would give support to the elbow, giving something to lean on for balance.

Yep, that´s from my understanding as well. They´d likely be tightened just outside the rim of the side armor plates. It´s hard to find any pics, but I´m fairly sure I saw some occasionally. Need to dig my collections. However, I do not think that it was too common a practice from photo evidences and splintering wood can be as dangerous as other shrapnel. I´ve seen photos with 251´s having sandbags beside the front MG (like prescribed by this SS grenadier), but it seemed it was older 251 models with MG´s not having the gun shield yet.

Anybody knows the size of the ingame soldier models? AFAIK average sizes of males in the 1940ies was in the 1,70m (5 ft 7 in) for most US and europeans.

[RockinHarry]

Nice homepage you have. Bookmarked

https://thedesertfoxsite.wordpress.com/

 

[c3k]

Great pix of the real life seating position. THAT is the kind of stuff which can get a change. 

[BLSTK]

You are aware that when you have to explain the joke it won't be funny - but just to prove me wrong ... over to you.

@ Combatintman

I am willing to make an exception. Just for you.

Have you ever seen numbers painted that big? Anywhere?

Even the Bismarck's call numbers were smaller.

[Combatintman]

That may be so but it is far from obvious that the colour is black and the shortage of fuel reference is not overly clear.

[Doc844]

Nice pic looking through the rear hatch, I definetly think this proves their is a problem with the dimensions of the half tracks in game, in relation to pixeltruppen size. 

[Lt Bull]

Interesting thread.  This thread is not really a surprise to me however.  I too have wondered before if perhaps the supposed "protection" conferred from being within a HT (as opposed to being outside of it) is actually a detriment to infantry well-being in CM.

I am surprised just how much more exposed infantry travelling in CM HTs (at least the German ones) are compared to actual photos of WW2 infantry travelling in HTs.

I wonder ff the higher seating position of CM infantry HT passengers actually is to blame for what seems to be a perception that they are more vulnerable to small arms fire than what we might otherwise think.

 

[Karabekian]

Have you ever seen numbers painted that big? Anywhere?

 

 

Is it a propaganda (press) shot? The large numbers (as well other unit markings) were increasingly common later in the war. 

[Seedorf81]

Probably an idea from one of Hitler's generals, being fed up with having to tell his Fuhrer he hadn't enough men. Now he could honestly say that he had "men in big numbers".

[BLSTK]

With larger numbers of the elderly entering the ranks it was probably deemed a necessity to use larger numbers.

If only to avoid the inevitable "friendly fire".

"Alles klar?"

Edited March 13, 2016 by BLSTK

[sandman2575]

With respect to OP --

This isn't just a problem for the Halftracks. It goes for pretty much any unbuttoned AFV. It seriously drives me crazy how, in CM, unbuttoning is pretty much suicidal.

Recently playing the "Firebrigade von Saucken" scenario in RT -- a Maxim killed the tank commander of one of my unbuttoned Tigers from a distance of over 500m -- in three bursts.

This sort of thing is beyond ridiculous. Firstly, unbuttoned commanders or Halftrack gunners will happily sit exposed, unresponsive, for many seconds after it's obvious they are receiving fire. But worse, the commander or gunner is a ridiculous bullet magnet. Unbuttoning in CM is essentially the kiss of death, no matter how safe you think your commanders are.

Now, I'm not saying tank commanders should be invulnerable. If you unbutton 50 m. from concealed terrain or buildings that may well contain enemy troops, you're asking for trouble. But that's not how it works in CM. As soon as you unbutton, you will attract bullets from any position with clear LOS, even at distances near the limit of small arms weapon range.

Also during Firebrigade von Saucken -- another of my panzers was sitting quietly for many turns in cover, apparently undetected by the enemy. I did a little experiement -- saved the game, and then had that tank unbutton. Sure enough, he unbuttons and immediately attracts small arms fire, and is killed. I was all but 100% certain that would happen, and it did.

I *really* wish this could be changed -- it is immensely frustrating and 'suspension of disbelief' killing. I essentially never unbutton my AFVs anymore. The button in the game panel should essentially be disabled or removed if it's going to be this absurdly lethal to unbutton.

 

[Maarten]

Ah, yes, of course. Mounting extra protection on the outside would make more sense. Sometimes I think all this obvious stuff going over my head is the reason my my male pattern baldness.

[MOS:96B2P]

Is it just me, or does it look like their butts are levitating over the seats?

 Yeah, it doesn't seem like the troops are down in the seats all the way.  

Also I'm not sure the halftrack is wide enough.  The interior seems wider in the photo @Maarten posted.

Edited March 14, 2016 by MOS:96B2P

[Fizou]

Looks like the heads are a bit high in CM. This guys head looks to be below the edge.

These guys heads seem to be just above the edge but clearly not as much as the CM screen.

Hard to know what kinds of SPW these are though (sure a grog will have me sorted in no time).

 

 

[BLSTK]

Here's a quick fix: double the height of all HTs. Or at least the height of their so-called "protective skins".

Edited March 14, 2016 by BLSTK

[Bulletpoint]

 

For a moment I thought that guy was checking the water cooling in his computer

 

On a serious note, it looks like he might be sitting on the floor or on a box, not on the benches in any case. All photos I've seen indicate that eye level was at the edge of the armour plate.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[kch001]

It does like the soldiers should be lowered about 15 - 20 cms.. 

Also I agree that a "cowering" posture for vehicle crew and passengers is needed. The normal reaction is to duck if somebody is shooting at you. 

[JoMac]

 Yeah, it doesn't seem like the troops are down in the seats all the way.  

Also I'm not sure the halftrack is wide enough.  The interior seems wider in the photo @Maarten posted.

Yes, we need a New Lowered Troop Stance in Vehicles to represent troops slouching over or ducking when fired upon...If there's not going to be a new Stance, then at least increase Troops use of Micromanage of Terrain ( which also represents troops slouching over or ducking ).

Also, it appears that Vehicles & Troops have two different Scales...It looks as if Troops are about 10-15% bigger then Vehicles ( or Vehicles are 10-15% to smaller then Troops ). 

[General Jack Ripper]

As said, a slight silhouette/stance improvement for sitting psoldiers can be achieved by swapping 2 animation files. See screenshot here:

For testing purposes (kar98k-seated-knees-high.ani - renamed to - kar98k-seated.ani) - effects riflemen:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8si8k9hz7mnmb2/kar98k-seated.ani?dl=0

and (unarmed-seated-knees-highest.ani - renamed to - unarmed-seated.ani) - effects others, like the lMG men:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rvtnrt03n3rylei/unarmed-seated.ani?dl=0

place into data/z

Could you post some screenshots showing the changes?

[RockinHarry]

Could you post some screenshots showing the changes?

It´s still in a previous post of mine:

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/122096-why-ride-the-suicidal-hanomag-halftrack-when-you-can-walk/?page=2#comment-1658121

It´s safe to drop the two animation files from the links above into data/z folder and see yourself, then delete again when finished testing. Soldiers have knees (as file name already indicates) somewhat higher and head slightly down forwards, possibly making an overall difference of 2-3 inches, so that the lower rim of the steel helmet roughly coincides with the upper rim of the halftracks side armor. The game uses these animation files already for vehicles like kubelwagon and possibly other light vehicles from german, US and CW OOB. It´s not a solution overally, as obviously vehicle and soldier scales do not accurately match and tacAI problems remain anyways.