PanzerMiller Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It is obvious why fast and quick commands result in tired troops. It is less clear to me why the hunt command has the same effect? I've been wondering the exact same thing for some time now...this doesn't really make sense to me. "Hunting" to me suggests movement that is slow and deliberate but not necessarily physically demanding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I believe the idea with "Hunting" is that the troops are hunched over, trying to present a minimal target for the enemy, while still moving forward. They are also moving slowly while trying to spot the enemy. Try moving forward in a posture other then normal walking, while carrying a lot of gear over rough terrain, and at the same time being aware that your life may end at any moment and I imagine it would be quite tiring. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 One advantage of playing RealTime is that except for the smallest scenarios you can't move everybody all the time. Which means your units have "natural" pauses. Definitely can come in handy! HUNT means your guys are intensively looking for trouble, intensively seeking to minimize noise, intensively using cover, etc. If doing this stuff drained a unit as much as normal walking, don't you think all troops all the time would be using HUNT like behavior in real life? Yet they don't. Ponder that for a bit and get back to me Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 HUNT depicted in this vid on LRRPs (Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols) in Vietnam. This is stealthy movement, noise discipline, hand signals, maintaining surveillance in all directions, etc. See 10:30-11:34. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0tiqI6Z3OE Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I can attest to the fact that moving around with that amount of gear in anything other than a normal walking gait after a certain amount of time is tiring. Doing it a forest isn't making it any easier. It just is fatiguing work as well as mentally draining since you have to be alert the whole time as well. I'd rather do the airborne shuffle for five miles than that kind of movement for a half mile bad knees and all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, exactly that! I can walk for miles in the woods without tiring, but a couple of circuits around a mall and I feel exhausted Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 That's a different "HUNT" command, Steve. -One that must be stifled...lest the missus get angry. (Which is actually the main reason I hate going to the mall--it's too fatiguing!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake_eye Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 In a wooded area, I have found the Hunt command useful, since the unit moves when there are no near threat. On the contrary the unit does not comply with it if the enemy is close, that is a warning for the player. That way, I use the hunt order for the scout, then the quick and move orders for the trailing units. IN RL recon takes time and is physically and mentaly exhausting even when the combat load has been left behind. Besides, I have found the Hunt order a tiring one if it is done with the same unit few times Pretty good AAR Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMiller Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 HUNT means your guys are intensively looking for trouble, intensively seeking to minimize noise, intensively using cover, etc. If doing this stuff drained a unit as much as normal walking, don't you think all troops all the time would be using HUNT like behavior in real life? Yet they don't. Ponder that for a bit and get back to me I have indeed pondered...point taken, I guess Specifically, I was thinking of all this in a relative sense -- in terms of game mechanics, the "tiring times" for Slow, Hunt, Quick and Fast with Move as the reference. No, I haven't done my own tests -- but I'm hoping someone else has...! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I have indeed pondered...point taken, I guess Specifically, I was thinking of all this in a relative sense -- in terms of game mechanics, the "tiring times" for Slow, Hunt, Quick and Fast with Move as the reference. No, I haven't done my own tests -- but I'm hoping someone else has...! Out of curiosity I ran a recent test to verify some of the comments as unless I had a unit with a low fitness rating I have rarely had an issue with hunt and in those cases quick was out of the question. It was not a highly detailed test, just more of a spot check to see what I should be expecting. I don't play trying to calculate exactly how I can do anything, I like conditions and expectations to be a bit fuzzy. What I found was in moving across a plain flat map it would take about 3 turns for a hunting unit to begin to show effects. An unfit unit would after that same period actually stop as they were getting worn down. A unit on quick would generally go about 50-100% further depending on quality. The only times I have seen a unit tire on move was either really lousy terrain (water etc) or lugging an MG. Now generally I rarely have a unit moving for 3 full turns so that explains why I have not had any real awareness of relative effects. If I am planning a move for that long, it is literally "move" with no expectation of contact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMiller Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Good stuff, sburke...I knew some tester out there would come through... Yeah, there are so many variables in this equation: terrain, unit type, unit condition, unit experience(?)...as with you, I don't expect an exact, quantitative relationship on hand during my gameplay -- but I would like some general sense of how I can expect my truppen to perform. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 If we are equating tiredness to mental, as well as physical degredation, perhaps FIBUA should be more draining. There are plenty of accounts of how utterly exhausting it is to maintain constant awareness, note most WWII units had not trained with specific sectors/arc boundaries for a modern squad. Most photos of German troops, in Stalingrad, have all the troops facing in a 180 arc and looking very strained. Perhaps, in future versions mental and physical states could be separated, though that would lead to quite a few subjective algorithms I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 You might think this is tank porn.. well it is.. but it also has a purpose: It is a view of my lead ISU-122... I am sending the ISU-122 Section forward to the river line to give more emphasis to a center-left side attack to hopefully mislead Elvis... doubt it'll work.. but the more I push into the center and the left the more he will need to either keep in place to meet it, or redeploy to counter it. Composite Image: 4-4 DANGER AREAS A danger area is any place on a unit's route where the leader's estimate process tells him his unit may be exposed to enemy observation. Ranger Handbook The area between KT3 and KT 4 is a danger area.. you need to cross these areas as quickly as possible... the following image shows my movement from KT3 into KT4. My Rifle and LMG teams will be in their overwatch positions before the SMG team rushes across. Composite Image: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miller41 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Thats the kind of post where I actually learn things and I sure appreciate how you teach as well as play in these AAR's Bil. I am using your battle drill site as well and it is all great info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 2nd Squad's SMG team passed through the Danger Area without problems... This image shows my next moves.. KT2 has almost been completely cleared.. no enemy contact at all n there. 5th Company is now tight behind my scouting 4th Company platoon... note that I intend to break this force up into three parts, all with the same goal, but I will show the move towards Objective Blue for several turns before I move on to Axis Yellow. In KT3 I know there are enemy teams out there so I have almost a full platoon in flank protection while I move another along the edge of the woods and on towards Objective Blue as shown... I want one squad on each side of that clearing with a third following up. My ISU-122s are in position on the river bank... I might move them forward some more to peek around the corner but I have not made up my mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 That picture gives a great perspective thanks! The Red tide moves onward! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Oooh, the suspense is killing me! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 My ISU-122s are in position on the river bank... I might move them forward some more to peek around the corner but I have not made up my mind. Hmm. Would it not be better to clear the corridor between the two parallel red arrows with your infantry and drive them up to OBJ BLAU this way? Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 That is not my intent at his point in the battle. My intent is to perhaps make Elvis doubt whether I am going to use this route or not. That will at least force him to keep something along Axis Red to counter any potential move. I have the OT34 present in the area you mention to help along that route to Blau. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collingwood Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Bil, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed your screenshot of the ISU-122. Tankoviy Desantniki, totally new armor - the best CM porn in years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMiller Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Bil, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed your screenshot of the ISU-122. Tankoviy Desantniki, totally new armor - the best CM porn in years. Now all we need is a little tank-on-tank action... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Now all we need is a little tank-on-tank action... So I wasn't alone in thinking that when I saw that gun on the ISU-122? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 I thought this image was too pretty not to share... the softer side of tank porn, my ISU-122s in position (hopefully acting as distractors): I did have some contact this turn.. looks like the remnant of the very first team I encountered.. it appears to only have one member... ...by the end of the turn the enemy soldier was running for the rear being chased by my precious SMG ammo... Overview of where the encounter occurred at the top of KT3: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 One new terrain detail longtime CM players might be overlooking. Big trees, small trees mediums sized trees. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 One new terrain detail longtime CM players might be overlooking. Big trees, small trees mediums sized trees. tree grog and this tree is just righhttt. seriously though the forests we can create now are very impressive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.