Let's do this thing

[superwoz]

This CMFO/GL a great game and I hope the creators have been richly rewarded.:cool: I realize you guys get tons of requests for this and that from your customers. We all have our wish list of things we would like added or changed but over all this game is fantastic an we all thank you for that. I am relatively new to CM games because I started with CMFO when it was first released. It was a new and wonderful experience compared TOW2. One of the aspects I did like about TOW2 is the clean-up of solders weapons and equipment. CMFO is spotty in this area, hence the reason for this post.

I have yet to play CMBN so I’m not sure how weapons are collected but in CMFO and GL most soldiers won’t pick up submachine guns (SMG). The only ones who will are packing pistols so I imagine they are happy to pick up anything with a barrel longer than 5” . . . but seriously this has to be an oversight and I would love a correction. I asked for a fix on the forum after the release of CMFO but sadly the 1st patch was released and no fix for the SMG error. I quit playing CMFO out of frustration due to the disregard for such a simple and easy request. Clearly this is a defect in the gaming parameters and I imagine it would take one of you big brained designers all of 5min to fix. I had planned on buying CMBN after the release of 2.0 but I couldn’t take the chance that game was any different in this area.

Then Battlefront released one of my favorite subjects in a game; The Fallschirmjager in Italy! I had to have it and I hoped by now someone would have resolved this vexing weapons matter. Unbelievably it wasn’t fixed! Am I the only person who plays the axis version of this this game? SMG’s throw a lot more lead down range than bolt action rifles so when a soldier with a SMG goes down I want another to pick it up and do some killin’! I would like to have many more hours of exciting gaming with Battlefront products but this issue is making me crazy.

So as a loyal Battlefront gaming customer will you please correct the collection of fire arms oversight?

Regards,

Woz

[Ithikial_AU]

CMFO? CMFI

As for soldiers not picking up SMG's from KIA or WIA buddies there's a few other things that probably need to be considered...

- Does the soldier who's doing the 'buddy aid' already have an SMG/LMG?

- Did the SMG on the dead body have much ammo left?

- Was the equipment damaged?

The game doesn't tell you everything which I think it's one of it's strengths. Being that one step away from the battlefield forces the player to adapt to the changing battlefield situation rather than trying to control every small detail.

Just because you lose an MP40 or MG42 doesn't mean you can't win an engagement. If it does, time to reassess the tactics you're employing.

[womble]

CMFO? CMFI

As for soldiers not picking up SMG's from KIA or WIA buddies there's a few other things that probably need to be considered...

- Does the soldier who's doing the 'buddy aid' already have an SMG/LMG?

- Did the SMG on the dead body have much ammo left?

- Was the equipment damaged?

The game doesn't tell you everything which I think it's one of it's strengths.

Not that those considerations have anything to do with whether a trooper will pick up an SMG if they have anything better than a pistol already. It's very simple: they won't. They could be carrying a crappy Italian 7mm rifle and be out of ammo, and they still won't pick up the SMG, even if it had not been fired and the fallen bearer still had 5 full clips. The argument is that, for your generic infantryman, they'd rather have a long rifle, so they can fight back at any given range, rather than gimp themselves at longer ranges by taking the SMG. Lots of people think this (and issues like the StG44 user never changing it out even though it's empty and there are no other 7.92k rounds to be had on the battlefield) needs to be looked at, but I don't think it's high on BFC's list of tweaks to the TacAI.

[Erwin]

Not picking up different weapons... Is that a new feature? I would swear that in CMBN I used to end up with German squads with two or three MG42's that they picked up and replaced their rifles with.

[Baneman]

Not picking up different weapons... Is that a new feature? I would swear that in CMBN I used to end up with German squads with two or three MG42's that they picked up and replaced their rifles with.

Oh LMG's get picked up. Just not SMG's.

I wonder if this is an unintended consequence of BFC stopping the picking up of Stg44's.

Note that I don't know that Stg44's are no longer picked up, but they may have jiggered the algorithm to stop this, since buddy-aiding one of those is the worst thing that can happen ( I recall a while back having an MP40-armed guy buddy aiding one with zero ammo - now that was a teeth-gnashing moment )

Although I would still think it would be easier to just damn-well give us a source of 7.92K ammo.

[MikeyD]

Its just not a good enough excuse to pick up a weapon because its 'cool', to throw down your government issued big-bullet rifle and pick up a machine pistol with half the range and inability to pierce buildings. The folding stock M1 carbine is a 'cool' weapon too but nobody's thinking about tossing aside his M1 Garand for one.

[womble]

Oh LMG's get picked up. Just not SMG's.

I wonder if this is an unintended consequence of BFC stopping the picking up of Stg44's.

I don't think so. They never have picked up SMGs. Since well before people started noticing the state of StG44 resupply options. I think it's BFC's long-held position that the SMG isn't sufficiently attractive to the standard GroPo to warrant them discarding their Garand/Kar98/SMLE/Carcano and the tactical range it gives them. What I'd like to see is pTruppen grabbing the SMG as an addition to their personal armamentarium. If the Choob Guy can carry a rifle and his Tube, why can't GI Joe pick up Sarge's Tommy Gun and sling his Garand on his back when things get close-quarters? I understand the real world concerns of having two weapon systems that can be confusing enough for a tactical disadvantage when swapping; I've suffered from it, but it doesn't seem to be an issue for simulating LMGers who swap to pistol according to the TacAI's wishes/presets rather than using the LMG all the time as the owner would no doubt like them to. Obviously, there are load issues to account for as well, but there's already a system for that.

IMO, if the Sarge is dead, his Asst wouldn't leave the SMG there, but if he's wounded, it's more likely his weapon would stay with him.

[mjkerner]

Its just not a good enough excuse to pick up a weapon because its 'cool', to throw down your government issued big-bullet rifle and pick up a machine pistol with half the range and inability to pierce buildings. The folding stock M1 carbine is a 'cool' weapon too but nobody's thinking about tossing aside his M1 Garand for one.

Very true, but take a breach team composed of 2 KAR 98's and one MP40, and the MP40guy buys the farm...one of the KAR's isn't going to pick up the MP40? Besides, the game already has the ability to have a pixeltrooper carry more than one weapon, so in the time period of our games, I would think it would be very possible that at least those types of teams that are likely to be designated for close assualt would pick up usable rapid fire, close assault weapons.

[Andrew H.]

Its just not a good enough excuse to pick up a weapon because its 'cool', to throw down your government issued big-bullet rifle and pick up a machine pistol with half the range and inability to pierce buildings. The folding stock M1 carbine is a 'cool' weapon too but nobody's thinking about tossing aside his M1 Garand for one.

This, basically. "Sarge is hit! Quick, grab his Thompson!" - didn't happen, as far as I have ever read.

[Lt Belenko]

This, basically. "Sarge is hit! Quick, grab his Thompson!" - didn't happen, as far as I have ever read.

The hell with his Thompson go for the wallet!!!

[MG TOW]

Have it map size and building population dependant....

I have read an account of a Canadian soldier who scrounged a "schmeiser" before going into a built up area. I'm not sure if he retained it and reverted back to his Enfield after. There is photographic evidence of CW troops in possession of MP40's. I'm sure some of the Thompsons we see were not issued rather than snatched up too.

But ... SMG ammo seems to get burnt up quickly in the game, while squads always have enough rifle rounds to spread around to its soldiers to keep going. ideally on a large map with few buildings to clear the smg might not be the weapon of choice if LMG's or rifles are available.

[A Canadian Cat]

What I'd like to see is pTruppen grabbing the SMG as an addition to their personal armamentarium. If the Choob Guy can carry a rifle and his Tube, why can't GI Joe pick up Sarge's Tommy Gun and sling his Garand on his back when things get close-quarters?

Now that would be good. Rifle men that pick up an LMG keep their rifle. I have not seen them use it after getting the LMG but it is there on their back. Picking up the SMG and swapping to it when they are close to the enemy would be a good thing .

[Michael Emrys]

The hell with his Thompson go for the wallet!!!

The hell with his wallet, go for his cigarettes!

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to have a modified version of the Acquire function attached to Buddy Aid. That way, a player could select which of a downed soldier's gear/weaponry to take.

Michael

[costard]

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to have a modified version of the Acquire function attached to Buddy Aid. That way, a player could select which of a downed soldier's gear/weaponry to take.

Michael

The short answer would be "No."

[Michael Emrys]

The short answer would be "No."

"Always with the negative waves you're making!"

Michael

[LukeFF]

If the Choob Guy can carry a rifle and his Tube, why can't GI Joe pick up Sarge's Tommy Gun and sling his Garand on his back when things get close-quarters?

Because that SMG would quickly be useless after the soldier burnt through the one magazine it has, and of course a soldier carrying both an SMG and rifle would be terribly gamey. Did it happen once in a very rare while? Probably so. However, we know that BF is dead-set against making outliers a common occurrence in the game, so the chance of seeing a feature like this is practically zero.

Side note: carrying a Garand slung across one's back is pretty discomforting, especially considering that it was meant to be slung on one shoulder instead. Those guys who had to carry a bazooka as well must've been the strongest guys in the company.

[Erwin]

Why not update the Acquire command to include the choice of what weapon (and ammo) is available to be scrounged? (In addition to making it easier to acquire ammo from vehicles without the need for boarding, and from adjacent units etc.)

Yes, if one is in longer range combat one prefers the rifle. But, most of the CM2 scenarios are on rather smaller maps and nearly all involve assaults, so the SMG would be often preferred.

[costard]

"Always with the negative waves you're making!"

Michael

"Ich bin der Geist der stets verneint"

[Michael Emrys]

You don't say...

Michael

[tdogg]

I say allow SMGs to be picked up through the acquire button. I don't buy the this didn't happen in real life, plenty of examples of Germans acquiring ppshs and equipping themselves with them. So at least maybe it should be allowed for the EF. The suppression the SMGs dish out is so important, that it just hurts to loose one.

Just wait till we have SMG soviet companies in CMEF.

[superwoz]

I have also advocated for the expanded use of the acquire key. It would allow more flexibility for us gamers but battlefront apparently doesn’t use great ideas from its customers. :confused:

I also agree with tdogg concerning the ‘real life’ comment. The SMG’s were very popular with the Germans as seen in pics from the Eastern Front. Towards the end of the war there were squads made-up entirely of MP40’s. Currently if the Germans won’t pick-up their own SMG’s when CMEF comes out they surely won’t be able to acquire the PPSH. That is complete and total BS! :mad:

Speaking of BS, I am shocked to hear that soldiers can’t retrieve the mighty MP44! WTF! I am so glad I didn’t purchase Normandy. I’m already unhappy with the SMG error but I would have been furious purchasing Normandy with the MP44 blunder. The MP44 is the original assault rifle which illustrated the short comings of the bolt action rifle. After Hitler was shown the power of the MP44/ STG44 he wanted one in every soldiers hand conversely the game won’t let soldiers recover them! Unbelievable! Seriously battlefront, WTF! :mad:

This game overall is so thoughtfully designed consequently I have trouble understanding why this issue of weapons retrieval persists. It is an easy parameter fix for the software engineers so I am now convinced battlefront isn’t concerned with what its customers want. I am a small business owner and customer service is how I have a successful business. I won’t be purchasing anymore battlefront products.

[sburke]

geez dude really? Six posts in 11 days going from a great product to now I won't buy anything anymore? Did you not refill some prescription or something? Even if BF was listening to you (which I'd almost guarantee they won't now), what did you expect them to do in 11 days?

And wtf is it with you German weapons dudes? Brit Paras can't pick up Stens either which are killer weapons in close combat yet I don't hear anyone freaking out threatening to never buy the product. JFC I am about sick of German uber weapon nuts.

[A Canadian Cat]

Woah Nelly relax nothing happens quickly around here.

I have also advocated for the expanded use of the acquire key. It would allow more flexibility for us gamers but battlefront apparently doesn’t use great ideas from its customers. :confused:

Yes, they do. But you should know it can take a year or more and the might not even tell you they did it. As an example several of us posted that we wanted changes in the FOW settings for the Elite skill level. A year later they made one step in the direction and six months after that they finished. It now works pretty much exactly how we wanted it. And they never even told us they made the change.

Thanks again BFC BTW.

Currently if the Germans won’t pick-up their own SMG’s when CMEF comes out they surely won’t be able to acquire the PPSH. That is complete and total BS! :mad:

No it is not BS. Yes, the Germans used captured PPSH weapons but they most certainly did not pick them up and run and gun during battle (at least not regularly). Think about it would you pick up a weapon you had no chance to inspect for damage, booby traps and just start using it - hell no!

Speaking of BS, I am shocked to hear that soldiers can’t retrieve the mighty MP44!

Really, where did you hear that. I have seen them pick them up before. In fact it can be kind of frustrating because a rifle man will buddy aid and pick up an MP44 with only a single clip of amo. After they run out they do not switch back to their rifle.

This game overall is so thoughtfully designed consequently I have trouble understanding why this issue of weapons retrieval persists. It is an easy parameter fix for the software engineers so I am now convinced battlefront isn’t concerned with what its customers want.

Now there is the bull. Nothing is ever as easy as you think and issues with AI are certainly never easy. As @sburke said 11 days is not long enough to be making statements like that. Well, not with any credibility anyway.

[tdogg]

@ sburke, not to make it sound so German centric with the buddy aid pick up smg request. You are right I do cringe when my sten toting Brit goes down as well. It seems to hurt less for the US because the garand puts out a fair amount of suppression.

It just seems like it should be an added feature for CMEF if it is not going to be a CMx2 addition.

[sburke]

Okay, I was having an "oh my god not another uber weapon issue" moment. I'll get over it.

The issue of buddy aid is players want it to be way too specific and not include in that the possibility that the aforementioned weapon might be out of ammo, damaged etc.

What it comes down to IMHO is CM is a game where you don't so much command a unit to do anything as create the conditions for it to do something. What I mean by that is you don't click a unit, tell it to do action X and then it just goes and does it. It is a lot more involved than that. Spotting has a huge impact. The TAC AI might change unit decisions etc. Loose plans in my experience tend to work better than trying tightly scripted plans.

When it gets down to the level of buddy aid, I can certainly see guys picking up the MG or AT weapon, those were uniform decisions based on the need of the squad to have more firepower. The individual small arms however are too prone to variable conditions. What is the terrain like, does it make sense to pick up an automatic, how much ammo do I have? That level of decision making is I think too much to expect. That is an individual's decision, not a squad's decision per se. BF may disagree and intend to have that level of decision making eventually, but I won't miss it if they don't.