modules and features?

[sburke]

Excuse me??

If you want to play just the CW part of Market Garden or just the US side of it, that's your affair. But the US part alone was a HUGE campaign. Of course both nations fought together in many of the same battles too (Guards and US Airborne)

Hehe heh and how anyone would NOT buy a module staggers my imagination. C'mon now CW is $35. Good lord people you'd think BF was stealing your retirement nest egg or something. I figure it this way, if it isn't worth $35 to ya then don't hop on the forum lamenting you don't have x unit available. If it wasn't worth it to buy it then it shouldn't be worth complaining you didn't get it.

[Michael Emrys]

It's almost worrying that Steve popped up in another thread, this close to release... Usually he's "in purdah" as release dates get imminent.

Uh, you sure about that? My totally subjective impression has been that when Steve pops up after a long absence it usually portends that his share of the process is pretty much done. And that means that aside from some last minute polishing, the game is about ready to go to press.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Nothing lowly about you Phil

I second that. Phil has been a good dude and a credit to the company. Sadly, that means he'll probably get shot in a foiled mugging attempt soon

Michael

[sburke]

I second that. Phil has been a good dude and a credit to the company. Sadly, that means he'll probably get shot in a foiled mugging attempt soon

Michael

Nah Phil is just a bot that Charles created so he doesn't have to come out here and see the rabble that buys his game. *ducks* ouch Phil, just kidding.

[MikeyD]

Don't mess with Phil. Phil created 'Movie' mode. That makes Phil Rambo.

... in a good way.

[Lt Belenko]

That's what they should model. Guys boarding a vehicle, but one guy is slow and the driver doesn't notice and the vehicle takes off leaving him behind. It could happen!

Wasn't this issue fixed with the last patch?

[GSX]

Hehe heh and how anyone would NOT buy a module staggers my imagination. C'mon now CW is $35. Good lord people you'd think BF was stealing your retirement nest egg or something. I figure it this way, if it isn't worth $35 to ya then don't hop on the forum lamenting you don't have x unit available. If it wasn't worth it to buy it then it shouldn't be worth complaining you didn't get it.

Who was complaining? Already owning the CW module I'm interested in what the MG module will add to the Base Game both content and terrain wise. While I totally agree that £25 won't bankrupt me, it would be a lot to pay for a CW module that only added some German Paras and a big bridge. Though I'm not expecting this either.

Cheers

[sburke]

Who was complaining? Already owning the CW module I'm interested in what the MG module will add to the Base Game both content and terrain wise. While I totally agree that £25 won't bankrupt me, it would be a lot to pay for a CW module that only added some German Paras and a big bridge. Though I'm not expecting this either.

Cheers

Faith- I think no one could say BF skimps on the modules. I am pretty certain you will be very very happy.

[Battlefront.com]

Your base game and module policy has always been that you don't need a module to play another module. Does this mean that you don't need The CW module to play the Market Garden module? If this is so then it won't leave much of a representation of MG only having US units on the Allied side.

This was, indeed, a tricky one for us. As you say our philosophy is twofold:

1. Customers shouldn't be forced to purchase Addon A so that they can use Addon B. That's a model other game companies use and we feel it's counter productive for everybody.

2. Customers shouldn't have to re-purchase stuff in Addon B that they already have in Addon A.

Anybody that knows anything about Market Garden that this definitely creates issues for us. We'll get into more detail about how we dealt with this very soon, but the short of it is we are including some of the Commonwealth units (British and Waffen SS in particular) in Market Garden and making up for the "reuse" by including more stuff than we would have included otherwise. In the end the overall value of Market Garden is high, yet it doesn't cheapen the reasons for buying Commonwealth.

If we hadn't already announced Market Garden as a Module we would have been better off making it as a Pack (smaller scope, lower price). In fact, all the head scratching I did over Market Garden directly led to the Pack concept.

Steve

[James Crowley]

Speaking of the 'Pack concept', are there any firm plans for packs yet?

I'm thoroughly enjoying the Scottish Corridor campaign and would love to see more of these thoughtful, detailed and excellent campaigns making it into 'packs'.

[GSX]

This was, indeed, a tricky one for us. As you say our philosophy is twofold:

1. Customers shouldn't be forced to purchase Addon A so that they can use Addon B. That's a model other game companies use and we feel it's counter productive for everybody.

2. Customers shouldn't have to re-purchase stuff in Addon B that they already have in Addon A.

Anybody that knows anything about Market Garden that this definitely creates issues for us. We'll get into more detail about how we dealt with this very soon, but the short of it is we are including some of the Commonwealth units (British and Waffen SS in particular) in Market Garden and making up for the "reuse" by including more stuff than we would have included otherwise. In the end the overall value of Market Garden is high, yet it doesn't cheapen the reasons for buying Commonwealth.

If we hadn't already announced Market Garden as a Module we would have been better off making it as a Pack (smaller scope, lower price). In fact, all the head scratching I did over Market Garden directly led to the Pack concept.

Steve

That sounds reasonable, thanks for the clarification and I look forward to the MG module when it arrives.

[jakla1027]

Speaking of the 'Pack concept', are there any firm plans for packs yet?

I'm thoroughly enjoying the Scottish Corridor campaign and would love to see more of these thoughtful, detailed and excellent campaigns making it into 'packs'.

+1

Battlefront,

I know you don't want to make announcements before your ready to, & I'm not asking you to. But could you explain the "Packs" more? Are you planning on releasing packs after a base game & all of its Modules are released? What is the planed TOE of a pack? Will we see units/equipment, & possible what if equipment/units? (I'd like to see a what if for Normandy that included the American M6 tank, or German E-75 ) Like I say I don't expect an official announcement, more of a general definition of what kind of content we'll see in Packs.

Thanks,

[kohlenklau]

jakla,

Do a search (listed by posts) for packs....

Steve said this way back on 19 Feb 2013:

Originally Posted by Battlefront.com

"Astute readers will note that I mentioned the term "Packs" up above. This is a term we have not used publicly much, if at all, so far. However, you will see a lot more mention of this in the months and years to come. So let me take this moment to start the education process

A big bottleneck in Modules is the tight focus of the content. This means we have to fully develop the theme and also provide Campaigns and Battles to support that theme. It is very time consuming for many reasons.

You have seen me talk about the "odds and ends" concept relating to Normandy. Specifically releasing a bunch of rare/strange vehicles, formations, and perhaps even terrain. A "Pack" is just that... a collection of things which are collectively cool, but not related to each other thematically. For example, we might include British Funnies, German converted French vehicles, German Stomach/Ost Battalion TO&E, the church of St. Marie Iglesias, Rommel Asparagus, etc. See what I mean about no real common theme other than "ooo... that would be cool!"?

The point about Packs is we can do them faster than we can Modules. We can also price them according to how much stuff we cram into them. Maybe we do a couple of fairly small, more focused Packs ("German Normandy Defense Variety Pack" and "British Funnies and Oddities"), maybe we do a larger Pack ("Normandy Oddities"). It all depends on our schedule and what we think is worth doing.

The last part is important for us. Since we can crank out more Packs in a year than Modules, this means overall you guys will get more stuff to play with in a shorter period of time. The downside is there will be few, if any, Campaigns or Battles in the Packs. And that means you can't get in and start playing with the new stuff until people make battles with them or you like to play QBs. A Pack, however, could simply be a bunch of Campaigns and Battles. It's all very flexible and we're not going to get nailed down to anything right now, hence not making much mention of it until now.

Steve"

[iMolestCats]

I think someone needs to make a thread that we could list suggestions for these "packs", anyone willing to do that?

[jakla1027]

kohlenklau,

Hey thanks very much, that's what I was wondering.

[Erwin]

The possible flaw in this concept is that there has been a decline in the number of scenarios and campaigns (especially) produced by volunteers as every new module/pack gets released.

[James Crowley]

The possible flaw in this concept is that there has been a decline in the number of scenarios and campaigns (especially) produced by volunteers as every new module/pack gets released.

Less a flaw, more a fact of life.

Making scenarios is complex and time consuming; campaigns much more so.

In the 'old' CM1 days you could cobble a scenario together fairly easily; not necessarily a good one but certainly a passable one. But with all the extra work required, particularly around AI, in the more complex and detailed enviroment of CM2, it is little wonder that not many folk have the time or perseverence (or in my case skill) to make new battles.

So paying (I presume) the 'experts' to crank some out is realistically the only way to guarantee a flow of good quality scenarios and campaigns.

And, of course, we all owe a debt of gratitude to those few, stout individuals who voluntarily put the effort into making, scenarios, campaigns and mods for our favourite game.

[Michael Emrys]

Making scenarios is complex and time consuming; campaigns much more so.

In the 'old' CM1 days you could cobble a scenario together fairly easily...

And there was plenty of time to do so. How long was the gap between BO and BB? A couple of years, wasn't it? Now look at the BFC publishing schedule nowadays. It must be some kind of challenge to manage to crank out a scenario between the time a game/module comes out and a new game/module is in the hands of players.

Michael

[heyhellowhatsnew]

I think it's pretty funny I went on battlefront.com on a whim because I was like okay it's totally coming out today.

I don't know why I had that feeling. Oh well.

[sburke]

GL Released?

What's he that wishes so?

My cousin heyhellowhatsnew? No, my fair cousin;

If we are mark'd to F5, we are enow

To do our country loss; and if to live,

The fewer men, the greater share of bandwidth.

God's will! I pray thee, wish not one gamer more.

By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,

Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;

It yearns me not if men my garments wear;

Such outward things dwell not in my desires.

But if it be a sin to covet another module,

I am the most offending soul alive.

No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from some FPS shooter game.

God's peace! I would not lose so much bandwidth

As one man more methinks would share from me

For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more downloader!

Rather proclaim it, heyhellowhatsnew, through my host,

That he which hath no stomach to this refresh party,

Let him depart; his passport shall be made,

And crowns for convoy put into his purse;

We would not F5 in that man's company

That fears his fellowship to wait impatiently with us.

This day is call'd Monday.

He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,

Will stand a tip-toe on Tuesday,

And rouse him at the name of Battlefront.

He that shall live this day, and see old age (Emrys),

Will weekly on the vigil feast his neighbours,

And say 'To-morrow is Monday.

Then will he strip his sleeve and show bruised fingers,

And say 'These wounds I had last Monday'

Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,

But he'll remember, with advantages,

how many times he pressed F5 that day. Then shall our names,

Familiar in his mouth as household words-

c3k, GaJ and Bil,

Womble and that new guy, Slysniper and Vanir-

Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.

This story shall the good man teach his son;

And Monday shall ne'er go by,

From this day to the ending of the world,

But we in it shall be remembered-

We few, we happy few, we bunch of impatient losers;

For he to-day that presses F5 with me

Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,

This day shall gentle his condition or make him a nervous wreck;

And gamers now-a-bed

Shall think themselves lucky they were not here,

And hold their manhoods (wait, what?!)

That checked the battlefront website on Monday.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

There I go again... got a feeling in my stomach it was released, checked the main site.

nothing. Haha. I like owning myself like this

[Markus86]

maybe it's time for the F5 bird

[Buzz]

How about a Gustav Line "Bestiary" file included with launch?

Like a "Dealership" file to se all the enchanted by extraordinary units / vehicles in our Toy Box. Might help average folks decide what they want to play with tonight

[Battlefront.com]

And there was plenty of time to do so. How long was the gap between BO and BB? A couple of years, wasn't it?

Just about 2 years, with just about 1.5 years between CMBB and CMAK as I recall.

Now look at the BFC publishing schedule nowadays. It must be some kind of challenge to manage to crank out a scenario between the time a game/module comes out and a new game/module is in the hands of players.

'tiz indeed a challenge

We have never judged our games based on quantity, but rather quality. We've had the discussion of the quantity of scenarios a billion times before. The usual conclusion is we have fewer scenarios with CMx2 than CMx1, but the quality level is much higher. CMx1 had a very low bar for making scenarios which meant even moderately motivated and/or skilled people could crank stuff out with little effort. With CMx2 the bar is raised quite a bit higher and so the skills and motivation levels are also higher. Add to that the increased controls and diverse victory conditions in CMx2 and you get a lot more variety and quality for any given 10 scenarios than you would for 10 in CMx1.

If the number of scenarios available for CMx2 were an actual problem, I assure you we'd know about it. First, you guys would be yelling to high heavens all the day long about how you "shelled out all this money and there's nothing to play!". Second, our sales would be suffering. Since we're more likely to hear "I don't have enough time to play all this great stuff!" and our sales are doing just fine, me thinks there's no problem with having fewer, higher quality scenarios for CMx2.

Steve

[ChrisND]

Posted in the wrong threat, whoops... reposting:

I just totaled up the amount of campaigns and scenarios for Fortress Italy and Gustav Line compared to Battle for Normandy and Shock Force, and while they don't provide (strictly on a count total) the highest amount of content, they also aren't the lowest. If there is a decline between CMx2 titles, it's not a very big one.

If you were to play all of the campaigns and scenarios (from one side only) in real time without ever pausing to issue orders or survey the situation or read the briefings or anything at all, it'd take you over 40 hours to get through all of the content. Not including Quick Battles and the new Quick Battle maps and formations etc. That's non-stop running through it as fast as humanly possible. Playing normally, you'd actually multiply that 40 by some number (depending on how cautious you are).

In short, I'm not terribly worried about the amount of content provided.