Vinnart Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Unless the immobilized Sherman Is not an imminent threat to Bil’s other units I would leave it be for now, and use the Pzr IV to support the infantry attack at the rear of the villa as a safer move. As long as it is immobilized staying out of its line of sight makes it useless. Attack weakness not strength. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I presume that this immobilized tank has an over-watch over the remaining Bil's forces that are still waiting for a save approach to the villa. That's why this tank needs to be dealt with asap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 The Forty Eighth Minute My remaining Grille had one round left.. it was a HEAT round. It had LOS to the spot the Sherman was sitting on, but no spot. I targeted the building directly behind the Sherman in the hopes that the round hitting right behind it would distract this super tank while my Panzer moved in from another direction. I never expected the round to actually hit the Sherman! It did though, and in most dramatic fashion this last, most destructive impediment to my force was removed from play. By the time my tank crested the ridge the Sherman was already a burning wreck. I didn't see any crew escape. Another valiant and highly skilled foe is brought low, yet, even the mighty Achilles fell at the end. On the back side of the Villa my small probe is met with overwhelming fire and I had several casualties. So too however, did ND's troops in the buildings. My Panzer now has several enemy units in view and I do not need to bring more infantry into view in order to start wasting the inhabitants of this last objective. Damn you ND... it seems he has pulled some of the Infantry Platoon that had been engaging my right most squad and started moving them towards the Orchard objective. That's okay.. I have the remains of my Italians up there waiting for them... plus, now that my Pz-IV is free it can leave the subduing of the Villa to the Pz-IIIs (I still have 2) and can proceed to this side of the field to render assistance. Here is an overview of the map at this stage. ND has one intact infantry platoon on my right, along with one half track. He also has what I think is a small company in the Villa buildings. I can now stand off and pummel the buildings without exposing my infantry until I am ready to commit them. I also still have a full infantry platoon in reserve and can move them either to the Villa or towards the enemy platoon moving to the Orchards objective. ND has offered cease fire, which I will accept as long as he promises to not move any closer to the Orchards or the Hill objectives. I have promised to not move to or into the Villa. So this one will be wrapped up in the near future. What a satisfying, frustrating, enjoyable scenario. Thanks Chris (Normal Dude), you put up one hell of a fight! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Bil, Really now! Your modest protests are hard to believe... We know you wanted to end this episode in the most dramatic way possible. What better way than to have the immobilized Sherman suddenly erupt in a gigantic explosion. Not targeted by the Grille.....arr arr....right! Holy cow, what a turn of events. The way things were going back and forth, I'm not surprised that the errant round from the Grille accidentally struck the very target you were hoping for. I'd say that was a really good turn for the Mark IV, as it appeared that the Sherman's turret was pointing in the direction your tank was coming from. That might have gone badly for your tank, in light of the way the Sherman seemed to have second sight. You and Chris have done a masterful job on this battle. I've enjoyed the twists and turns and picked up some new ideas and strategies in the process. This was a really well done AAR. Thanks for sharing. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Bil, That pic's real meaning caught me flatfooted! Given the way you started the writeup, I thought you were showing the disastrous end of your Grille. Not so and spectacularly at that! Panzer und infanterie vor! A truly amazing seesaw fight! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The fluke shot at the end was a perfect finish to such a crazy battle that was a joy to read. Well played and I really liked some of your decisions in this battle. One thing about CMX2 games, predictability is not part of the system. For some reason I actually like that even though it is frustrating as heck at times. But playing all them years with predictable games, where results were pretty consistant. never felt right. Not when you read combat stories all the time that reflect how unpredictable and how non logical things are, how crazy things happen alot out there because it is normally in a state of madness. Command and control is not commonly present. even when I was in the service. Field practice showed you how little you know what was going on generally around you. Only very recently has some of the communication devices really given the adverage soilder the ability to know what is going on in the battlefield around him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Fair enough - but in my book the axis has won the fight. That infantry sitting in the villa had no way of defending against tanks so they would have been wiped out by tanks one by one. Would an axis commander really accept a cease-fire at such a point? Anyway, thank you again for such a great show - I'm a bit sad I won't get to follow this splendid AAR any more. oh well, everything ends at some point, hehe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Now that the battle is over, I'm reading random snippets of this thread to see things from your perspective... Wow, I actually got your FO with my 60mm mortar! :D I had no idea he was there, I just knew there was an MG team and the Grille somewhere in the area, so I ordered an Area fire mission and hoped I'd get lucky. Guess I did! :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Would an axis commander really accept a cease-fire at such a point? Probably not, but who knows? This has been a very traumatic battle for both sides. Besides does anybody really want to watch 10 turns of me pummeling the Villa from long range until ND begs for an end to it? The interesting and fun part of the battle is over. I think that a draw is the correct result, those US troops put up an awesome fight. They will write songs of their deeds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Yeah, you are right - you won for me nevetheless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Now that the battle is over, I'm reading random snippets of this thread to see things from your perspective... Wow, I actually got your FO with my 60mm mortar! :D I had no idea he was there, I just knew there was an MG team and the Grille somewhere in the area, so I ordered an Area fire mission and hoped I'd get lucky. Guess I did! :eek: Yeah. That was a hard time for me in the battle. I thought I had lost not just the FO but the artillery as well. I let out a huge sigh of relief when the rounds did start to fall at exactly the right moment (when my truck with its squad arrived at the Hill objective). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Final Positions & Standouts Looking at the Villa at the game end, I think it would have taken some time to reduce it. If I had known that the front had as few units in it as it did I would have attempted to go in there. But ND's last Sherman was keeping that from being a possibility. Truth be told I hate MOUT combat and I was NOT looking forward to tackling this objective. On the other side of the map this came as a surprise to me.. I never even saw nor suspected that ND had a full squad on my right hunting my German squad. That would not have gone well for me over the next few turns if we had carried on. By the way, the rifle grenade team did not receive credit for killing that Sherman... so I'm afraid there is no tank kill badge for that shooter. Don't worry we will be arguing that point up the chain of command. I think the kill total from the Pz-III that was on the back side of the Villa can give a little taste of what ND's troops inside the Villa could expect from my remaining armor. My remaining Grille did a lot of the heavy lifting in the scenario. This is the vehicle that fired the majority of the 150mm rounds at the Villa causing 20 casualties, and also killed the two Shermans that flanked the Villa. The other Grille in comparison missed both HEAT round shots at the one Sherman in front of the Villa, and only got off one or two HE before falling to ND's hero tank. There were others that I could mention, like the squad and truck that rushed the Hill objective and formed the toe hold for securing that crucial objective.. the two Pz-IVs on my right that dominated the battlefield on their side until their luck ran out.. and so on. So what did you guys think tactically? What decisions do you think were mistakes (for ND or myself)? What would you have done differently? Were you surprised at how much luck played a part in this battle for both sides? This is my favorite part of a battle.. the post battle analysis so jump in, I will not be offended if you think I sucked in this one, and there was much room for improvement (namely with my handling of the Italians). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I thought your truck rush was totally ballsy and incredibly risky. I'm playtesting a scenario for a friend at the moment and caught a fully loaded Bedford with a single round of 75mm HE - don't think I've ever seen so many little red crosses in one go before. ( 4 survivors I think ) So that move alone I would probably never have tried - yet it paid off in spades for you When I saw ND's reinforcements after your Italians were decimated, I honestly thought it was all over for your attack. I'm probably better at defence, so I take my hat off to you for pushing all the way to the Villa. Top stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I played this as Axis vs the AI and got a similar result. I didn't get the third objective because there was a single American marksman holding out in one of the wings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Bil, I agree with Baneman on the truck rush. It was wild and crazy but worked. I don't think I would try that unless there was no other way. I thought you handled the Italian force well. I might have held back the Italian armor as support for the infantry, rather than using them to probe and flank. They were pretty brittle and once they lost their tank commander, they were mainly there to spread out target choices for ND's forces. Your flanking choices were well thought out and used terrain nicely. I'd say your aggressive attack, coupled with some really good use of the Grilles (well, the one did star while the other was cancelled out) saw you to the very doorstep of the villa. Yes, ND's flanking maneuver would have been problematic for you, but the main act was at the villa. You lost points in pressing the attack but the battle was always close. The ebb and flow of the engagement was really something. It kept me riveted. Both ND and your strategies played out very well within the capriciousness of Lady Luck and her influence. Very nicely done. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Bil, I agree with Baneman on the truck rush. It was wild and crazy but worked. I don't think I would try that unless there was no other way. Look at the circumstances of that truck charge.. right before I gave the order ND had abandoned the Hill objective because of the impending artillery strike of which he was getting some spotting rounds. One T30 had been KOed and his Sherman had been chased off the plateau where the Villa sits. It was at this point that I HAD to make something happen as I didn't seem to be getting any breaks.. so I ordered the truck rush.. but I hope you see that I thought long and hard about it.. even going so far as to check the LOS locations where they would be exposed to his remaining pack howitzer and ordering their movement accordingly. I thought you handled the Italian force well. I might have held back the Italian armor as support for the infantry, rather than using them to probe and flank. They were pretty brittle and once they lost their tank commander, they were mainly there to spread out target choices for ND's forces. You are too kind.. I could have and should have done a lot of things differently with the Italians.. I did have three of the R35s supporting the infantry.. but they could do little against the pack howitzers ND had on the Hill objective. I should have advanced onto the Orchard objective with a very small force to do some recon before I committed the troops I did. Instead I sent much more onto that objective than necessary and paid a high cost. I did not do my homework either.. I failed to do a thorough analysis of what the sight lines were from and to the Orchards and Hill objectives. If I had done that then I would have found out ahead of time how exposed a position it really was. Your flanking choices were well thought out and used terrain nicely. I'd say your aggressive attack, coupled with some really good use of the Grilles (well, the one did star while the other was cancelled out) saw you to the very doorstep of the villa. Yes, ND's flanking maneuver would have been problematic for you, but the main act was at the villa. You lost points in pressing the attack but the battle was always close. The ebb and flow of the engagement was really something. It kept me riveted. Again I had very little really at the Villa.. several HMG teams and one squad of infantry and several HQ units... the assault troops were sitting in trucks waiting for ND's last Sherman to die before they advance to teh Villa to make an assault. The ebb and flow of the battle I think gave me an ulcer. Thanks for the feedback guys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Rematch! Rematch! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempestzzzz Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Great AAR-I played this map in the demo as the Americans-real nasty. I fought the AI Germans on Elite settings to a draw due to the clock running out. AND I WAS damned happy with that-but in real life the Germans wouldn't have taken a cease fire. I was shuttling mortar men without mortars and machinegunners without HMG's to plug holes. Another 5 minutes and it would have been a Total Axis Victory. Nasty Objective for the Germans-City on a Hill -!ugh! If I played a human opponent my palms would be all clammy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 A rematch? Rocky: Adrian! Fight Announcer: Your fans out there deserve a rematch! Rocky: It ain't gonna be no rematch! Oh, come on! I had enough things in my face tonight! Adrian! Fight Announcer: You heard him, Ladies and... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 rematch! rematch! rematch! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 -Another big THANK YOU for a wonderful AAR! I've been following it daily from the beginning. Great stuff! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Yes, thank you for doing this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Wow, four months almost! Our gladiators certainly have stamina. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Bil, Oh yes, I saw just how carefully you checked LOS prior to the truck rush, and I laud you for it - it paid off handsomely in very low casualties and was a major factor in the success of your advance to the villa. I still think you had the stones of Thor to run it. Thanks for an excellent AAR. Clearly we enjoyed the heck out of it. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Heinrich, "Who dares, wins." Unless a cease fire prevents the conclusion of the battle! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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