herr_oberst Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 every time I start to get ahead of myself and careless ND snaps me back to reality. Bil Is that a 'snaps' or 'slaps'? Anyway, I just wanted to weight in with another mention of "Great AAR" from both you guys. Sadly, my Mac Mini just isn't up to CMFI (grumble grumble), but I'm saving up for a iMac that should do just fine. So you guys are all I have at the moment. Many thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Surprised me too.. I had little hope for that result and the main attacker was supposed to be my panzer.. but I'll take it! This game has a way of confounding expectations, both positive and negative. :eek::confused: Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I Love your side of the AAR and I think this battle has been a classic example of a good close contest where clear victory has not been in view for either side. As for the fate of war outcomes that have shown up, that is just part of playing under the CMx2 engine, never know what to expect. Sometimes things might seem a little non-logical. but in general, the lucky and bad breaks go both ways and in the end add to the unpredictable nature that should somewhat exist in a battlefield situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Nice attack Bil. I haven’t played this map as the attacker yet, but I would take the same route you did through the gully. I was starting to think your tanks attacking at the villa got too far ahead of the infantry, but it looks like they caught up just in time. Great back and forth in this battle, and really shows why the cliffhanger aspect of this game is so addicting. Can’t wait to see what will happen next. Thanks for putting together such a nice AAR for all of us to be entertained by. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Good use of smoke to shield the (ballsy) assault element. More!!! Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Bil, I finished the demo version of this scenario last night while playing as the Axis troops. I read through your entire AAR this evening to compare notes, and to check out how you have approached this battle so far. I made a successful push up the left side of the villa as well, and had a base of fire established on the orchard objective to help that cause. However, that fire base took a pummeling due a sneaky AI artillery attack, sort of like something ND would do. I did notice that my German tanks were slower to spot than the Shermans. Thanks for the entertaining AAR. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mies Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Thanks for the excellent AAR. Very well done to both! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 The Forty Sixth Minute The Pz-IV on my right is beautifully positioned behind it's dead brother with LOS along the entire flank of the Villa including the positions of the T30 and the last remaining Sherman. A few seconds into the action it spots, fires and kills the last T30. After the pummeling these things gave me in the opening stages of this battle it feels good to have them both out of the way. I find this very odd and interesting. It seems that ND's infantry platoon is not oriented towards my infantry on the Hill objective, but towards my Pz-IV and infantry squad on my right. The unit moving (highlighted by the blue arrow) is moving towards my right as well. It seems to me that they must be trying to cover for something... perhaps another Bazooka team is sneaking up on me again? Well, I'll have to prepare for that eventuality. ND is really worried about the Pz-IV.. his Sherman also seems to have a covered arc over its position. I doubt he can see my tank as it never fired. This gives me an opportunity! I don't know if ND even knows that I have another Pz-IV on this side of the Villa. With his Sherman overwatching my right flank I am ordering this tank to attack as indicated. This image also shows my initial force making its way around the east side of the Villa.. ND's infantry platoon loses several more personnel this turn to tank and MG fire. It cost me an HQ team of 4 men, but that squad was running for its life at the end of this turn after at least two more losses so I am happy with the exchange. It is now time for me to move up my reserve. I have been husbanding this infantry platoon the entire game. They are mounted on trucks and will follow up the east side villa attack force and will pass through them when I make my assault on the Villa itself. I have not decided how that is going in yet, I just want them in position so when I see an opening I can jump on it. The Pz-III that was unhorsed a long time ago now is finally remanned and will also move up with the Infantry platoon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Oooooh, sweeet! Things can hardly get bad now I believe... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Things can hardly get bad now I believe... Things can always go bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Things can always go bad. Hardluck Rabbit sez: "Remember, kids, it's never too late to f*** up!" Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Bil, Nice shooting on the M30s. They were a huge thorn in your side. It will be interesting to see if you can get enough killing rounds into the side of the immobilized Sherman to avoid....remembers sadly the earlier tank duel....the fast traverse on those babies. Ease your Mark III up very gently with a covered arc and you might get a killing shot first round out. As for the infantry rushing up in trucks.....SMOKE, vee need more SMOKE... Really cool action - I'm loving it. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 Bil, It will be interesting to see if you can get enough killing rounds into the side of the immobilized Sherman to avoid....remembers sadly the earlier tank duel....the fast traverse on those babies. Ease your Mark III up very gently with a covered arc and you might get a killing shot first round out. It's a Pz-IV.. so should have no problem killing the Sherman, if it can hit the damned thing. As for the infantry rushing up in trucks.....SMOKE, vee need more SMOKE... Sorry, all out of smoke at the moment.. actually what I need is for that last Sherman to die... then I should be able to maneuver at will. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Bil, Roger that. Sorry on the mis-identification, and yes, the Mark IV should have no problems, especially with a flank shot. Just make sure the gunner doesn't fire over the top of the Sherman. Ouch! When you ease the tank up the slope, will you use Hunt and a narrow covered arc or just Slow with the covered arc? I am guessing you will use a covered arc to avoid the tank being distracted by something else, such as paratroopers with demo charges hiding nearby (hopefully not!!!). I've had some success using either Hunt or Slow but always with the CA. With that possessed Sherman out of the way, things will open up a bit and....another momentum swing. Can't wait. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Bil, When you ease the tank up the slope, will you use Hunt and a narrow covered arc or just Slow with the covered arc? I am guessing you will use a covered arc to avoid the tank being distracted by something else, such as paratroopers with demo charges hiding nearby (hopefully not!!!). I've had some success using either Hunt or Slow but always with the CA. I am using Fast all the way on this one.. what I don't want is to use Hunt then have the tank stop a few meters short of prime firing position giving ND time to react. So this tank is moving as quickly as possible to its firing position then I will let the dice roll. Also, no covered arc.. I considered it.. but with the tank moving straight in on its target I figure it should spot straight ahead just fine. We shall see. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Dismount the crew and charge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ...Also, no covered arc.. I considered it.. but with the tank moving straight in on its target I figure it should spot straight ahead just fine. We shall see. Bil Actually ( although I do not have enough statistical evidence ), I'm developing a sneaking suspicion that covered arcs inhibit spotting - probably the colour - on now several occasions, units with covered arcs have not spotted plainly visible enemy units ( usually AFV's ) for more than one turn. As soon as I cancel the arc in disgust, they see it. But I can't prove it and it could still be coincidence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 The Forty Seventh Minute SON OF A BITCH!!! A couple of events trigger a silence over the battlefield... first off, my Pz-IV stopped where I had thought it had a good LOS to the location of the Sherman.. it could not see the damned thing. Sh*t.. now ND knows that I am coming for him... I know he knows because this tank ran into an HQ team out on the open ground between these tanks and gunned them down. Second, somehow, ND's magical mystery machine SOMEHOW got a round to curve around the hulk of my dead Pz-IV then hit and then penetrate the other. This hit should NOT have happened... it should have been intercepted by my dead tank... looks like ND's tank put some English on that round. So now that I KNOW ND knows my tank is here, I had two choices.. rush a little closer and hopefully get a shot off before ND can rotate his turret (yikes), or back up and come at him from another angle... that is the decision I went with. Note: in this image the Sherman was composited in... my tank does not have a spot on him from this location. If I don't take out this Sherman then my reserve Platoon cannot move freely to it's attack position. This thing is now my white whale... To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee. Herman Melville, Moby Dick The enemy squad that I slugged it out with last turn (or was it the one before?) appears again, this time my Pz-III deals with them and at the turn's end that squad had one soldier left (by my reckoning). One of my squads lost two men when it peeked over the ridge at the barns.. only to find them full of troops... I'm not getting in that way. My initial force continues to work its way around to the rear of the Villa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gosh! Are you positive the round penetrated through the first tank and then had enough power to penetrate the second one!? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gosh! Are you positive the round penetrated through the first tank and then had enough power to penetrate the second one!? That's not what I meant... my tank was blocked by the dead tank... the round hit a location that is clearly behind the other tank and should not have been able to have been hit. Sh*t happens... that Sherman is giving me fits the way the T30s gave me fits in the early parts of the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 That's not what I meant... my tank was blocked by the dead tank... the round hit a location that is clearly behind the other tank and should not have been able to have been hit. Sh*t happens... that Sherman is giving me fits the way the T30s gave me fits in the early parts of the game. I thought that a dead tank couldnot provide cover (only concealment) for another tank. It only provides cover for infantry. Or sumfink. It was done this way to avoid apparent gaminess in CMx1 of having a row of tanks line up and essentially charge forward. Or sumfink. I recall Steve/BFC mentioning this when CMBN came out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhmorneau Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I know it's too late now, but I can't help thinking : "Had Bill used a target armor arc, his PIV would have probably ignored the american HQ squad and taken the Sherman by surprise"... As you know exactly where you target will stand, if I were in your boots I'd go for an area target so that you don't have to "throw the dice" for the fatal LOS check... Blast it first, then spot it (when it burns :-) My two cents ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I thought that a dead tank couldnot provide cover (only concealment) for another tank. It only provides cover for infantry. Or sumfink. That is true. But a smoking wrecks block LOS for all units, so the question isn't how the round went through the dead tank -- that is expected behavior in the game -- but how it had LOS through the smoke, if that is indeed what happened, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hardluck Rabbit sez: "Remember, kids, it's never too late to f*** up!" Michael Ah, Michael, truer words.... Bil, damn luck. Who could have forseen that squad blowing on into your LOS for the Mark IV. I think they were close enough that the tank crew would have fired on them even with a specific CA. You instinctively don't want "crunchies" running around close to your tank. They often have nasty things in their hands that might cause your tank grievous injury. Good call on reversing and coming up in a different and (hopefully!!) completely unexpectecd location. No fingernails are left...the tension mounts... Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rake Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I thought that a dead tank could not provide cover (only concealment) for another tank. It only provides cover for infantry. Or sumfink. It was done this way to avoid apparent gaminess in CMx1 of having a row of tanks line up and essentially charge forward. Or sumfink. I recall Steve/BFC mentioning this when CMBN came out. That was my recollection, also :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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