Albe Pavo Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 A question about LOS. If the italians had a squad near the Semovente and that squad spotted the T30, that would help the LOS of Semovente? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Dismounted recon by the TC and others was common in both the ETO and the Eastern Front. I remember all the way back in early CMSF Beta days I was testing a scenario and didn't dare run my T72 into a clearing. So I parked the tank in defilade, bailed the crew and scampered them to the edge of the woods. There it was, an Abrams big as life and facing the wrong way. I scampered my crew back to the tank, gunned the engine and got the drop on the Abrams. That made me the first guy in the new game engine to have ever bailed a tank crew for scouting purposes. One small thing, though. It sucks - sucks bigtime - if your scouting tankers get themselves spotted while scampering about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 One small thing, though. It sucks - sucks bigtime - if your scouting tankers get themselves spotted while scampering about. That's why I been thinking for a while that maybe we should be able to split crews for scouting purposes. When a TC scouts a position they don't usually take every man in the vehicle with them. That'd be a nice new feature to have by the time we hit Russia. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 That's why I been thinking for a while that maybe we should be able to split crews for scouting purposes. When a TC scouts a position they don't usually take every man in the vehicle with them. That'd be a nice new feature to have by the time we hit Russia. Mord. +1 to that. A feature that has also been high on my wish list for a long time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 If a tank crew dismounts, walks a ways, sees an enemy, and then moves back to it's tank then the chances of it remembering where the enemy is has a lot to do with continuing LOS and what the enemy is doing. Steve Steve, thanks for the clarfication. IMO this is not a good solution, because in reality the TC would tell his crew something like 2 Shermans, facing east, 11 o'clock, 700m. So the gunner already chooses the correct visor (and sometimes the tungsten-ammo will be preloaded, too). Also the concentration of the crew will be extremely focused on the area, once they get LOS. IMO a HUGE spotting advantage should be preserved (if the enemy unit didn't move far in relation to the distance), too. But also the aiming should be considerably better, because the TC/crew had time to estimate the distance and was not forced to calculate the average within seconds for the first shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 +1 for the wish to be able to make the commander leave the vehicle and spot (and remember the info when he comes back). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 A question about LOS. If the italians had a squad near the Semovente and that squad spotted the T30, that would help the LOS of Semovente? Good question. My guess is no, at least not directly. AFAIK spotting information is always shared vertically along the C2 chain, not horizontally. So if the squad did spot the T30 that information would have to go up the C2 chain until it got to a HQ that was high enough to be above both units, and then back down again to the Semovente. But I could be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 About the crew 'remembering', don't forget it's you doing this and not the AI. So the crew will remember what they spotted if YOU remember what they spotted. You're not going to see an AI-controlled enemy tank bail its crew so they can peer over the crest of the ridge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Good question. My guess is no, at least not directly. AFAIK spotting information is always shared vertically along the C2 chain, not horizontally. So if the squad did spot the T30 that information would have to go up the C2 chain until it got to a HQ that was high enough to be above both units, and then back down again to the Semovente. That's certainly the preferred way of sharing spotting info. And I'm fairly sure that horizontal sharing between physically close units is also included, although it's not as reliable, and I'd expect that BFC have put in some delays for sharing between infantry and armour (for hopefully obvious reasons) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I would think that direct sharing between physically close units would be the most reliable mean of sharing information. As for whether or not this happens in the game I haven't seen any sign of it, although I've never specifically tested for it either. I used to park infantry units next to my tanks to help them spot, but I never noticed it making any difference. I did notice the increase in casualties when my tanks exploded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I would think that direct sharing between physically close units would be the most reliable mean of sharing information. As for whether or not this happens in the game I haven't seen any sign of it, although I've never specifically tested for it either. I used to park infantry units next to my tanks to help them spot, but I never noticed it making any difference. I did notice the increase in casualties when my tanks exploded. It would be good to test, I normally leave my tank behind bocage and let infantry spot enemy armor, then move my tank up to the same location as my infantry. feeling it has been helping get a quick spot on the enemy unit with my armor. But truthfully I have not tested it, it was something that I had observed a few times that seemed to be happening and helping get quick spots so I just started putting it into practice. now I am wondering also. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Update, I have not forgotten about this AAR.. I am still compiling my next post. I have a business trip to Vancouver BC tomorrow (Gpig you around?) for a week... so that will also delay it another day or two. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 What?!! (drops popcorn) oh damn. Time to go kill some more of JonS sneaky little pixeltruppen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 We will miss you Bill... That's right. I'm not afraid to admit it. I'm man enough....just dont touch me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuderian Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Originally Posted by Vanir Ausf B View Post I would think that direct sharing between physically close units would be the most reliable mean of sharing information. As for whether or not this happens in the game I haven't seen any sign of it, although I've never specifically tested for it either. I used to park infantry units next to my tanks to help them spot, but I never noticed it making any difference. I did notice the increase in casualties when my tanks exploded. It would be good to test, I normally leave my tank behind bocage and let infantry spot enemy armor, then move my tank up to the same location as my infantry. feeling it has been helping get a quick spot on the enemy unit with my armor. But truthfully I have not tested it, it was something that I had observed a few times that seemed to be happening and helping get quick spots so I just started putting it into practice. now I am wondering also. I am convinced there is horizontal sharing, in fact especially with the Brits whose armour & infantry are usually in different formations; horizontal sharing is the only way you can get the aforementioned to share contacts which is vital for infantry tank cooperation. A simple test of my hypothesis is; An infantry unit and an unbuttoned tank unit 30 metres apart on either side of a ridge with no LOS between them. Both units are from different formations so there is no obvious C2 sharing. The infantry unit spots a tank on its side of the ridge 1000m away. After a while the tank unit will start to get a contact icon in the area of the spotted tank. The only way this can happen is the units shouting over the ridge as their are no C2 link higher up their respective command chains. I will eat my hat if proven incorrect! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuderian Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Ok I have set up a test that I think shows horizontal C2 sharing between different parent formations. All screen shots Iron Mode. Shot 1, 0 seconds 2 Shermans, 2 infantry units. Infantry on ridge with good frontal LOS. Tanks behind ridge and tall wall but within shouting distance of Infantry Shot 2, 0 seconds Infantry unit single clicked. Very Weak friendly tank contact. No enemy contact. Shot 3, 0 seconds Tank unit single clicked. Very Weak friendly infantry contact. No enemy contact. Shot 4, 60 seconds. Infantry unit single clicked has spotted two static enemy Tigers at approx. 1750m & strong friendly contacts. Shot 5, 60 seconds. Tank unit single clicked has 2 STRONG ENEMY CONTACTS & strong friendly contacts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 A simple test of my hypothesis is; An infantry unit and an unbuttoned tank unit 30 metres apart on either side of a ridge with no LOS between them. Both units are from different formations so there is no obvious C2 sharing. The infantry unit spots a tank on its side of the ridge 1000m away. After a while the tank unit will start to get a contact icon in the area of the spotted tank. The only way this can happen is the units shouting over the ridge as their are no C2 link higher up their respective command chains. I will eat my hat if proven incorrect! Even if there are links at the upper level that you can't see, if you include another tank from the same Bttn, but a different company, it should get the "?" icon later than the one near the infantry if it's lateral spotting transfer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Kuderian, Nicely done. But, um, can we please start a different thread for this? I was =hoping= to see more of the AAR. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuderian Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Shot 6, 0 seconds. Control test. This time infantry unit next to tanks with no LOS on Tigers. Shot 7, 120 seconds Control test. Infantry unit single clicked, only friendly tank LOS & contacts Shot 8, 120 seconds Control test. Tank unit single clicked, only friendly tank LOS & contacts Hope I am not derailing this thread but C2 is hard to understand properly I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 My next post will be up tomorrow. Again, sorry for the delay. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Nice big map size. Good stuff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 My next post will be up tomorrow. Again, sorry for the delay. Bil no sweat, looking forward to it. however we expect that villa cleared by 1300, we have to stop the invasion commander. it all rests ON YOUR SHOULDERS. No pressure though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 My next post will be up tomorrow. Again, sorry for the delay. Bil No worries...we'll let you live. Glad your back and hope your trip went well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah, this is definitely the time of year to be in Vancouver. Just beautiful out there when the sun's out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah, this is definitely the time of year to be in Vancouver. Just beautiful out there when the sun's out. Yes it is beautiful here.. and the run along the sea wall each morning blows me away. Sun though? When is that supposed to make an appearance? Have a cruise today (Company bonding), which I am really looking forward to... hopefully the rain will recede until at least that is over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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