This is why I'm still playing...

[Crushingleeek]

Call me a fanboi with an "i", but no matter how hard I look for a realistic WWII tactical simulation, I always come straight back here...

This thread is for ppl who want to point out the awesome nuances of realism that CMBN (or CMx2 or CM) captures

I love that sound takes time to travel. If your camera is on one side of the map and artillery lands on the opposite side, there is a delay between the flash and thunder... how cool is that

[GreenAsJade]

There's lots to love. I'm still playing.

I followed the link to an old MD post recently, and I still agree with a lot of his criticisms. I don't think it's as good of a _game_ anymore, but it's a jolly fine tactical simulation, and I don't play anything else.

GaJ

[Fizou]

Sure its not perfect.. but its the best thing out there. No other game gives me so many hours of fun per invested euro.

[Baneman]

There are things that irk me. There are design decisions that puzzle me.

But when my WeGo opponent parked his American TD next to a cowering group of Landsers and I watched a flurry of "potato mashers" fly into his open top turret ...

[Holman]

Lately I've been reading through the full 2nd edition rules for Advanced Squad Leader.

I have tremendous respect for ASL and what it has meant to wargaming. But I'm continually struck by the difficulty of simulating on the tabletop things that CMBN's engine accomplishes effortlessly (or effortlessly for the player, anyway).

[General Lee Irked]

. I can play on my Mac (PC hates me)

. Great knowledgeable community

. Mods ( May the Gods bless each and every one of you that make them)

. I still cheer when Tube Guy/Shrek Man nails the tank.

. Ambushing

. A good PBEM Opponent

. reading great AARs from people like sburke and broadsword and all other people who share and create u-tubes and mocumentary's and seeing the game through their enthusiastic eyes and in-turn opening mine and then enjoying even more the pure escapism this game provides.

. playing to much CMBN and having Bocage dreams/nightmares

Too much to list.

[sburke]

There is a line we used to use for the Dead (for those of you unfamiliar, that would be The Grateful Dead) -

"They aren't the best at what they do, they are the only ones that do what they do."

That in a nutshell is what keeps me playing BFC games and CMx2 in particular.

There are a bunch of tactical games out there 2d and 3d. All of them have some features/capabilities of CMx2 but none have them all.

What I love about it?

1- Watching the TAC AI. There have been a number of complaints about it, vehicle pathing, unit pathing, dispersion etc. Personally I think folks should watch it more. For every time you feel it does something incredibly dumb it has probably performed 100x flawlessly and even occasionaly done stuff to blow you away. Some of the scenes I have watched play out have been documented in posts here.

A sniper taking out something like 8-10 men in one turn.

A German squad leader named Probst who single handedly drove off or suppressed a couple American squads in Bois de Baugin.

A 3 man team that drove off a Sherman with nothing more than a rifle grenade and then eliminated a couple guys from an American MG team while one was a casualty and another was trying to surrender.

And those are only the ones I get to see, I'd love to have that same perspective of my opponents troops as I am sure I have missed many many more.

2- Relative spotting. Can't say enough about this. It makes armored warfare a whole different affair than CMx1. I honestly don't even understand how folks can compare the two. Back in my very first PBEM I ambushed 2 Shermans in Bois de Baugin. Neither saw my JPz IV until it was too late. That's when the light bulb really went off as CMSF C2 is so much stronger. It also made me very skeptical of claims of uber spotting tanks. If a Sherman can't spot a Jpz IV that just killed another Sherman and is in LOS how can it be considered to be uber spotting?

3-The tension of the bocage. Yeah I am with General Lee Irked (and that name cracks me up) here. The frustration and claustrophobia comes through so strong here. Most games featuring Normandy are simply very big attritional battles. Scale is everything here. They may accurately depict the allied problems trying to break out of Normandy but they generally are hampered in that it is just a long drawn out process that is pretty tedious. At CMBN scale however you really get to feel what it was probably like on the sharp end. How rarely you really saw the enemy and how hard it was to put together an offense. The nervousness wondering if the position you just occupied is gonna get a mortar barrage, is there an MG position across that field, or an AT gun.

[altipueri]

Would Jerry Garcia play CMx1 or CMx2? Depends what he smoked I guess.

[phil stanbridge]

There's a whole load of reasons why it is a great simulation but the biggest reason out of all of them is the fact that BFC listen to us guys and constantly keep the game updated, with new features and fixes. For that reason alone they will get my money.

[sburke]

Would Jerry Garcia play CMx1 or CMx2? Depends what he smoked I guess.

I'm bettin CMx2. Main reason is after getting stoned the three stooges would have him laughing too hard to play CMx1. Especially when someone modified his sound files so they were constantly yelling "Hey Moe!" and "You knuckleheads!"

[Placebo]

Still playing regularly over one year after release, and the on going refreshes the game is going to get from the future modules, is going to keep me playing for a long time yet!!

[Thomm]

Is there any other (war)game out there that does multi-level buildings?

Best regards,

Thomm

[daisy]

There's no other game that even comes close to doing what CM2 does.

And yes, its not perfect, it sometimes frustrates the hell out of me but then theres those special moments.. When it all comes together and then its amazing.

[Frankster65]

Nothing much I could add here. Pretty much been said...nothing comes close. My first wargame ever was Avalon Hill's Panzer Blitz. Used to play that every weekend as a kid with my brother and a few friends. The mind blowing hours we played, pretending to fight on the eastern front.

BF's CMBN is Panzer Blitz in 3D! I'm in heaven.

[Captain Sam]

I must say that it is the Wego option that makes the Combat Mission games so good. The VCR-style pause, rewind, and watch from any point of view is what makes CM stand out.

Also, I like the idea of making the best plan I can think of, hitting go, watching from different views, and living with the results. If something didn't work, then I get another chance to try another plan. Every one minute turn is like a self-contained game!

[Georgie]

The best. Can't find anything that approaches it. Didn't care for CMSF because of it being a modern conflict but bought it anyway to help ensure that we got CMBN.

[Crushingleeek]

The best. Can't find anything that approaches it. Didn't care for CMSF because of it being a modern conflict but bought it anyway to help ensure that we got CMBN.

that's dedication. had I been smart enough to reason that, I'd have done the same thing!

[slysniper]

I also started playing tactical war games back at the time of panzer leader.

What makes CMBN more than all those before is how the sighting and spotting of units is programmed.

It might not be perfect, but it has added dimensions into the game that has always were lacking in other formats.

Now units have the ability to ambush, move without being spotted, use of smoke and haze and fog impacting sight in a much more realistic way.

In any other game if you had open ground to cross, you knew every unit on the map that could see you would see you, now you can even cross open ground with the hopes of making cover with maybe only a few units spotting you and even less of a chance of shooting you.

If anything cmbn has brought the power of manuver more powerfully back into the game battlefield.

Then the impact on how each unit is being or not being a part of the fire fight because of their independant location as to sight is very much more realistic to what happens in the real world and also helps create the events where one or two guys might manage to take out a squad. Some dont like it, but these types of results reflect R.L. much more than the old format of everybody sees everybody and the math is used to compare their full firepower ability.

[womble]

Something that occurred to me today that CM does better than other games is elevation. The subtleties of contour that can make an open field more than just a shape with hedges round it just aren't represented in most games.

[Broadsword56]

Yes, the elevation system in the CMBN editor requires a slight learning curve, but it's ingenious in the way it automatically generates smooth and natural-looking terrain from reference points. I like to think of it as a flat and flexible bedsheet and your elevation dots are pushpins. You "pin" the higest and lowest spots, and then add whatever other pins you need.

[Vanir Ausf B]

BF's CMBN is Panzer Blitz in 3D! I'm in heaven.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, it's more like Panzer Leader in 3D. But I catch your drift

I really love the silhouetted tank counters in the unit UI. Really brings back that Panzer Leader/Blitz vibe. I refuse to use Juju's mod because I love the silhouettes too much :cool:

[ridethe415]

Too many items to list. But it's the details I love.

Recently played an early morning battle and as arty starts to fall into the town, I watched the light from the explosions reflect off the houses. From a distance it was pretty cool.

Small things like that where I just sit back and watch.

[dpabrams]

No other game has made me shower less, eat less, chew more, drink more coffee or call in sick for work more.

[Frankster65]

Something that occurred to me today that CM does better than other games is elevation. The subtleties of contour that can make an open field more than just a shape with hedges round it just aren't represented in most games.

Well said womble. Reminds me that if one works hard enough and takes time to get down and dirty, you as overall commander can find small depressions and/or gullies for your squads/teams to make it across that field in one piece...or at least in numbers to make a bonofide assault.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, it's more like Panzer Leader in 3D. But I catch your drift

I really love the silhouetted tank counters in the unit UI. Really brings back that Panzer Leader/Blitz vibe. I refuse to use Juju's mod because I love the silhouettes too much :cool:

I forgive you. You are so right on the silhouetted tank/vehicle counters. Every time I too look at them I'm reminded of my days playing those Avalon Hill games.

Too many items to list. But it's the details I love.

Recently played an early morning battle and as arty starts to fall into the town, I watched the light from the explosions reflect off the houses. From a distance it was pretty cool.

Small things like that where I just sit back and watch.

So very true ridethe415. The other day, I repeatedly rewound the playback in order to watch a squad of U.S paratroops clear a house after blowing in the wall with demos. There were two German troops still alive but stunned and the paratroops finished them off in a most brutal way. I am always loving the tracers we see, particularly at night when fighting is close and the sides just empty the magazines like crazy. Really provides a beautiful light show.

[sburke]

No other game has made me shower less, eat less, chew more, drink more coffee or call in sick for work more.

LOL I may have to try out some of that calling in sick once I get home...

I had an interesting introspective moment last night on the variations on how folks look at the game and how both perspectives can be correct while leading to very different feelings.

I was remembering the last few turns of the Hamel Vallee AAR. I had a Marder III attempting to take out a Sherman. It needed to run up a little bit on this road and then fire to it's left to hit a Sherman positioned across a field. While moving up it came under fire from a previously unspotted Sherman, but was still able to take position and immobilize my original target. It was subsequently destroyed by the second Sherman.

For me what was really cool was due to relative spotting the initial target never knew about the Marder until it had been struck. In CMx1 it would have known as soon as the other Sherman saw it. In which case in all likelihood it would never have gotten a shot off. Not to put any one on the spot, but one reader commented right away on how quickly the commander took over from the driver when hit. I can't say I am real familiar with the fighting compartment of a Marder or how quickly the driver should be able to be shoved out of the way, nor am I certain exactly how long it took, but certainly less than a turn.

I expect the poster was probably correct, my recollection is it did occur pretty quick. However that was less important to me than the fact I was able to catch the Sherman unawares. (Probably because the Marder died anyway LOL).

The ability of the Marder to take advantage of relative spotting meant I could make a tactical move that had a higher chance of success than it would have in CMx1. The driver issue is more of a tweak that can affect play, but doesn't really change what I would plan to attempt. (I am just using that post as an example, not trying to imply the poster felt the whole scene was ruined by the driver issue).

For me that kind of put in perspective how I perceive a lot of the disconnect for the disparity of viewpoint. You have one group of players that are amazed at how many things Cmx2 gets right and enables you to do and another group that gets hung up on those items that perhaps still need some tweaking. Frankly neither group is "right", it just comes down to what's important to you. One poster commented that CMx2 gets things about 90% but they still can't play the way they want and therefore it is on the shelf until a few more things are patched. For me 90% of the way towards what I want is actually pretty phenomenal considering nothing else in my view even hits the 70% mark.

I wish I could get others as enthused about the 90% as I am and that was part of the intent of the AAR, but everything hits us all differently. I can ignore the cow paddy sliding pixeltruppen and quick changing tank positions, but others can't. It's just the way we are wired.