This is why I'm still playing...

[Blazing 88's]

I love the game, the community, and the developers. Been around so long it feels a bit like home.

I have those special moments all the time. I'm still seeing things that just tip a scenario toward being a great story instead of just being a game. I play as if it's real. I can almost hear the salty old sarge yelling at, uh, motivating his guys. It sorta feeds my lust for glory.

Still feeling that way about CMx1 myself...

Slowly getting into CMx2, can't stand the limitations and theatre though so...

Flame away.

[womble]

Still feeling that way about CMx1 myself...

Slowly getting into CMx2, can't stand the limitations and theatre though so...

Flame away.

If you ain't played it, you can't appreciate it. Individual infantry heroics in x1 pretty much weren't because they weren't modelled 1:1. You've seen the difference in graphics?

I take it you only play BB and AK in the Desert then, since you don't like the theatres for x2?

What "limitations" irk you? No AA? No flame weapons? No TCP/IP WeGo? You do realise there are a bunch of limitations that were present in x1 that you didn't even realise existed until x2 provided ways of exceeding them?

Take off the damn rose-tinted nostalgia-specs.

[Medex]

Anybody care enough to flame Blazing 88?

I have a neighbor who often leans over the fence and tells me he likes to play computer solitaire. He says this like he is baiting me to criticize him for playing this game. I say, Dude whatever makes you happy. Your life… your choices. I know you just want my attention. And I will give enough of it to say I could care less with what you do with your spare time. Play away. I'm happy for you.

[Erwin]

Maybe what Blazing is saying is that the SCALE of CM1 is much more FUN (and an almost perfect abstraction) to many of us... which is why it is still being widely played, and many mods are STILL being produced for CMBO, CMBB and CMAK.

CM1 is much more of a fun game and relaxing to play. CM2 is more of a simulation, much less forgiving of mistakes, and much more like hard work to play well.

[Childress]

CM1 is much more of a fun game and relaxing to play. CM2 is more of a simulation, much less forgiving of mistakes, and much more like hard work to play well.

Mostly true. Much of the difficulty, or 'hardness' in Cmbn, comes, I find, from the finicky environment. My kampfgruppe arrives at episode 6(?) of Panzer Marsch. Loaded with HTs and a platoon of Panthers, our task is to assault Allied positions through an Alice in Wonderland maze of bocage- minus engineers to blow holes. Did engagements like these actually occur during the Normandy campaign? Sure. Am I having fun? Er.....

[slysniper]

Thanks for the update. Great story. Are you playing against a human opponent or the AI?

H to H as always. Actually I am in need of finding someone new to add to my committed opponants. I like to sit down and do a turn most days, multibles on some weekends and like someone that does about the same, Blind Scenarios is a must most of the time and I can care less about which side, army, period or task I have in the game. But someone that has good skills is preferred. So anyone out there that is interested send me a message.

[slysniper]

Slysniper,

Ive only seen the two scoped rifle setup in Brit/CW sniper teams, and even then not always. I like it too.

Lemme guess - your playing NEDforce?

Yes, that is the battle. I sent that team up the left flank to the last hedgerow that overlooked the stream area. That is where it all started.

There is one drawback to playing H to H dropbox play in CMBN, is it takes so long to get to play all the scenarios and battles that are out there. I normally have 3 or 4 going at a time, but with the longer scenario times. It can take months to do one battle. So I normally am getting to experience many of the scenarios way later than many of you here it seems.

[Vinnart]

Another thing that keeps me playing is the “cliff hanger” aspect of WEGO. It is like a series that keeps you coming back because you want to see what is going to happen next. This is especially the case with PBEM games. A day without doing at least a PBEM turn, or a single game turn is like a day without morning coffee. It is something you look forward to.

Plus now the eye candy is great along with more tactical depth, and more realistic feel than CMx1. I always wondered what was my father’s generation’s fascination with model train sets that they could watch for hours. I now know it was their version of eye candy. Sometimes if it is an especially exciting replay I will watch it from many different unit’s viewpoint simply to enjoy the eye candy over, and over again. It really does look cool especially with some of the excellent mods out there. If you are not running Vein’s tracers, Drakenlorde’s HDMuzzle Flash, Fuser’s/Aris’s vehicles to name a few you really are missing out on some very cool visual effects.

[Vinnart]

To all the new players whether they have CMx1 experience or not I say be patient, and you will grow to understand the game. I was one of you too. It took awhile to get used to it in its differences from CMx1. It is more complex, challenging, and realistic than it’s predecessor and that is why I like it so much. When I compare how well I play CMx2 now than to how I was when I first started playing it is like I am a different player now entirely. I do not find it hard at all to play now, and can win with few casualties always in single player. For a real challenge I must play PBEM. Remember every veteran was green once. Trust me it is not the game. It is either ones impatience to learn and practice the game nuances, or they just do not have good tactical sense to play well no matter how much the WW2 enthusiast they are. People tend to stick to, and enjoy what they do well which is why I do not play basketball. Now, Is there something wrong with the game of basketball, or is it me?

There is plenty of videos out there to watch to help one with their game play, as well as veteran player on the forum to help you. Remember practice makes perfect. Learn from your mistakes, and you will succeed in becoming a master player.

[Ultradave]

Not just Dad's model trains... I do that too. And if you want some fun train simulation for something a little lighter, try Auran's Trainz (don't mean to hijack the thread here).

So for something CM related, I know exactly what is meant by the cliff hanger aspect. I have yet to play any PBEM with BN, but played many many CMBO PBEM games in the past. There were many times where games were hanging in the balance or I was waiting to see how my assault or my opponent's would turn out. Or if he stumbled across that carefully laid trap :-)

I need to get back into PBEM. Moving home from England today after 3 years there courtesy of work. Now that I'll be more settled at home I'll have to get up a few PBEM games. Already registered at A Few Good Men

[Georgie]

Still feeling that way about CMx1 myself...

Slowly getting into CMx2, can't stand the limitations and theatre though so...

Flame away.

It took me six months or so to get into CMBN. The only reason that I go back to CM1 is to check out the equipment stats. It took so long because of the difficulty of learning the game. Learning the game was rewarded by many many unexpected and "neat" events. Can't get over the "realism" as compared to CM1.

Don't like the untriggered defense AI though. Some times I will be making a very difficult advance and the enemy will get up and leave their positions and in the distance enemy troops will be wandering about in the open making perfect targets for my tanks.

[A Canadian Cat]

To all the new players whether they have CMx1 experience or not I say be patient, and you will grow to understand the game. I was one of you too. It took awhile to get used to it in its differences from CMx1. It is more complex, challenging, and realistic than it’s predecessor and that is why I like it so much. <snip>

Well said. I started playing CM1 (BB and AK) shortly after CMBN was announced (I sooo wish I had hear about it 10 years earlier I would have been playing all along). Two of my friends and I played BB and AK while we waited for CMBN. I remember the biggest aha moment for me. I forget the name of the scenario but I was playing the Germans and my job was to escort trucks across the map against a Russian force. Once contact was made I did what I had always done in the past with hex and miniature based games: moved the squads towards the enemy positions expecting they would prevail. Result: a total failure and my guys ran away. I asked my friends what I was doing wrong and they explained. So, I setup to try again. Had the tank and HT lay down suppressive fire against the known enemy positions. One squad also area fired for part of the turn to cover the other squad as they advanced. Two minutes later my guys had overrun the enemy. It was a great moment. What an awesome game.

Once CMBN came out there was no turning back I just kept on learning more tactics and game techniques to realize them. I read the shock force forums about how to stack commands on your movement orders. How to conduct building clearing. Next thing you know my squads are maneuvering and firing like pros:) Now I have even begun splitting squads to gain more control over who shoots when and who runs when. But really you can get a lot done with the Assault, Fast, Quick and Target commands.

There is plenty of videos out there to watch to help one with their game play, as well as veteran player on the forum to help you. Remember practice makes perfect. Learn from your mistakes, and you will succeed in becoming a master player.

Excellent suggestion. Give us a situation that is giving you trouble and lets see what we can all come up with.

[Sublime]

sly,

NEDforce was a great battle. Ive played through most of it against Gogol (you owe me a turn btw Gogol)

I had the Brits. one of the sniper teams leader had the name Clark (my name namesake)

he got a few SS then got killed. -sigh-

real tough battle for the brits, especially against a good human player. I was pounding the crap outta him with my 25lbers the whole way and I did a lot of damage against his men. but alas the tank battle didnt go so well for me, and though I knocked out most of his panthers, the last 2 or 3 seem to be plenty to finish me off. I only have one AT gun left, and its outta AP shot =(

only issue with the battle is when my CAS came in - or didnt actually. I heard the reinforcements arrive radio squelch - got excited - and then noticed it said CAS on station eta 20 minutes. lol! so more like 30 because it takes another ten for planes to come in. Mind you at this point Gogol had already advanced pretty far and things were looking dire...

[Vanir Ausf B]

I like the music that plays at the end of the game when the mission results screen comes up. It's really quite catchy, which is a first for a CM game, IMO.

So that's why I play. To hear the music at the end of the game.

[Chek]

Hell I can't even play CMx1 anymore..

the interface is cumbersome,lacking in options and just plain limiting.The graphics are off putting and the AI is a joke.

As much as I once enjoyed the game it's day has well and truly past.

So I guess in conclusion the thing I Like most about CMx2 is it ain't CMx1.

[poesel]

Why I play:

1) Mac - obvious, no Mac no CM for me

2) WEGO - to have time to think and watch the replays. Without WEGO I wouldn't have bought the game

3) H2H/PBEM - vs the AI may be fun sometimes but the real thrill is vs humans. Really - if you never tried PBEM you miss more than half the fun.

[A Canadian Cat]

Why I play:

1) Mac - obvious, no Mac no CM for me

2) WEGO - to have time to think and watch the replays. Without WEGO I wouldn't have bought the game

3) H2H/PBEM - vs the AI may be fun sometimes but the real thrill is vs humans. Really - if you never tried PBEM you miss more than half the fun.

+1 to number 2 and number 3

[Crushingleeek]

Question:

Leadership vs Experience.

Can anyone give an example of how a unit with great leadership and green experience will differ in combat from a unit with poor leadership and elite experience?

[womble]

Question:

Leadership vs Experience.

Can anyone give an example of how a unit with great leadership and green experience will differ in combat from a unit with poor leadership and elite experience?

If you change two variables, you'll have a hard time sorting out which change affects what.

Experience affects things like accuracy and spotting. Leadership affects things like spotting and communication. Both have effects on morale. An elite team will, IMO, always do better than a Green one, regardless of leadership, just because they're lethal mofos. If you really need to quantify the differences, set up some tests. But make sure to only change one variable, or you'll not be able to determine what is happening.

[Crushingleeek]

probably a re-hash, but, is a a -2 leader better than no leader at all?

[womble]

probably a re-hash, but, is a a -2 leader better than no leader at all?

According to (my recollection of) what Steve said, yes. Any leader is better than no leader. Though that was talking about HQs and staying in C2, IIRC. You can't not have a leader of a given element, and they're rated -2 to +2.

[Crushingleeek]

so if your leader, say -2, is a casualty, is it possible that the next-in-line is -1 or higher? or is it only equal-to or lower than the one originally in command?

[womble]

so if your leader, say -2, is a casualty, is it possible that the next-in-line is -1 or higher? or is it only equal-to or lower than the one originally in command?

IME, the "next best" always gets promoted to leader. In general, if there's no "Asst" after the "Leader" or "Commander" is geeked, you'll be landed with a -2, and if you've got a -2 in charge, no one else is better qualified.

[Macisle]

RL time demands have put me on a one game-day a month schedule, but I saw this thread and thought I'd throw my two cents in. I play because I am looking for the most realistic depiction of WWII tactical combat possible, at the 1:1 level, in a game that is also fun to play. This is what CMBN gives me. There are no close rivals from what I've seen.

Sure, game X may have better terrain graphics, or game Y may have a nicer overhead map. But when I watch the gameplay vids on YouTube, or try the demos, I quickly realize that they do not measure up.

CMBN is simply, IT. -And it's going to get even better with each new module and engine update!

I'm a gen-X'er who had the original Squad Leader board game as a kid (but couldn't find players and so tried to play alone). As pc games evolved, I was always hoping to find that magic in a digital format. I was playing Close Combat III when CMBO came out. CCIII (had IV, but never played it) was okay, but by halfway through my first mission in CMBO, I knew that the CC series was obsolete.

I played various other WWII-based games, but gradually, they fell away and only the CMx1 series stayed. Then, I stumbled on ASL and got into that. Despite CMx1's advantage over ASL in things like FOW, artillery modeling and vehicle gun modeling (as in realistic shot output per turn, rather than abstracted), I felt that, overall, ASL was richer game experience and that became my game.

Then came CMx2/CMBN...

In the weeks leading up to the release of CMBN, I prepped a bit with the demos for CMA and CMSF. I had no problems with the new interface and such. When CMBN came out, I went right in on Elite level as my standard. Scenarios are challenging to various degrees, but against the AI, I've never found things remotely close to being too difficult to be fun. Sure, it can be work. But if what you really want is checkers, just admit it and go with that. Don't keep trying to convince the chess players that they'd be better off moving chess closer to checkers.

To make a long story short, CMBN has replaced ASL for me. In most (all?) important ways, it has caught up with or surpassed ASL in terms of game depth and richness of play. With 1:1, relative spotting, the new artillery modeling, the various team-splitting options, infantry interaction with vehicles, buddy aid/weapon recovery, ammo acquiring, etc... well...ASL just doesn't cut it anymore. My eyes now see the holes too well.

There are so many things in CMBN that make it the King of WWII Tactical Combat Games. Others have pointed some of them out. I guess in a nutshell it is that you are playing a great game that usually genuinely feels like you could be witnessing a real WWII battle. And the micro stories really solidify that feeling. Just in the last two weeks, Iron Front came out. Yeah--great graphics. So I look at the gameplay vids. Same old death match, capture the flag stuff. ZZZzzzzz. All that work and not even remotely close to a WWII battlefield. No interest.

Now, in CMBN... perhaps your only bazooka is lying beside its fallen owner and the enemy is going to be pushing his attack soon. Your few remaining men are spread out, laying down some fire and displacing to keep your opponent guessing. He hesitates. The ground holding the bazooka cools down just long enough for one of your men to get it. He makes it back to his position covering the armor's likely approach.

The enemy begins his final push...

This could be right out of a WWII battle diary.

In ASL, he'd know what you have and where the bazooka is and push forward before you could get it. In a game like WWII Online or Iron Front, no one would stay in position, coordinate or maneuver in a realistic fashion and you'd be shot by someone with better mouse skills. Then, the battle would be won by whoever had more players still spawning in.

If realistic WWII tactical combat in the form of a game is what your are looking for, CMBN is the King. Period.

Macisle

[altipueri]

Sorry, I just vomited.