Panic has me in its tight grip! No WeGo Tcp/IP

[Florian Gross]

Servus,

did I get this right, that there is no Tcp/IP online WeGo? Only PbeM. I have always played all CMs with my buddy over Tcp/IP. Don't give me realtime crap. Panicking again. Sorry.

I kinda see the sense behind this, correct me if I'm wrong: Wego only sends packages at the end of a round via Tcp/IP, so this could well be changed to PbeM. But is the PbeM system automated enough, that I don't have to exit the game, load the new PbeM file etc. To rephrase it: Can I play a battle with my buddy conveniently and in one big session as we are wont to do?

I have to admit, I never played beM.

Hoping.

Flo

[Erik Springelkamp]

Loading time for a large PBEM battle can still be quite long, but longer will be the time you wait for your opponent to plot his turn.

The actual exchange of files is easy enough.

Currently I use Dropbox to create a synchronised folder with my opponent and a few shortcuts inside that folder and the outgoing mailbox folder.

[Other Means]

Florian, sorry this is OT. Have you ever worked in England for a web company called Amaze?

[Barkhorn1x]

Florian, sorry this is OT. Have you ever worked in England for a web company called Amaze?

Trying to distract him from this tired topic, eh?

Good strategy.

[Florian Gross]

Servus,

no, Other Means, unfortunately I haven't. But I can be pretty amazing sometimes.

Ok I guess I'll have to look into this *yuck* PbeM thing a bit more. I 'd be glad about any heads up you guys could give me.

Not hoping that much anymore.

Flo

[Blackcat]

I haven't used up my one message per month allowance on this subject so I am going to allow myself the luxury of a reply.

Flo,

There will be no WeGO/TCIP for the new game. There might be a WEGO/TCPIP without a replay facility at some time in the future. Though, abscent replay, why anyone should want this is beyond me.

The reason for this is down to fundmental engine design decisions made by BF some years ago when CMX2 was on the drawing board.

Steve from BF has made clear on numerous previous threads that WEGO/TCPIP as we knew it from CMX1 is not coming back in the forseeable future, i.e. ever, and those of us who post wanting it back are wasting our time and energy. There is no point in reminding BF about the effort they put in to promote the unique selling point of WEGO + plus replay in the early years because they made the decision that real-time is more important to them and they ain't going to change.

Maybe if CMX3 comes out they will have reverted to their initial position, but I doubt it. So, if you want to play against a human then its PBEM (possibly with some clever wheezes such as those suggested by Mr. SpringleKamp above) or hot seat or join the Real-Time crowd. None of which appeal to me and thrashing the AI gets boring after a while, which is why I haven't bothered to buy CMSF NATO, but those of us who want what BF once gave us are, apparently, in a very small and unimportant minority. Given that we will probably buy the new game anyway who is to say BF are wrong.

[Florian Gross]

Servus,

Yea Blackcat, I can see the trend going towards RTS as well. But, and this is a BIG but: WeGo was what always defined CM for me! It was the last platoon of brave and courageous men, facing the onslaught of the economical forces... I am not angry. I am very dissapointed.

Still wish BF luck and great revenue from their product. I think CM just died on me there.

and I don't expect a reply from you, with your allowance and all... gg

[Baneman]

I certainly hope that BF don't regard Real Time as their ideal, WeGo may be PBEM only, but that is still preferred ( IMO ) if you want to have control over all of the battle.

I can't see how anyone can handle more than a couple of platoons in real time without having to leave a good portion of the troops either forgotten or on some form of "move to Contact" and leave it up to the TacAI - in which case ... why are we playing it ?

And who wants to lose a battle to someone who is simply ... faster with a mouse ?

[BFCElvis]

There will be no WeGO/TCIP for the new game. There might be a WEGO/TCPIP without a replay facility at some time in the future. Though, abscent replay, why anyone should want this is beyond me.

If for no other reason I would like it for the ability to have the game pause. Right now once it starts I sure hope you have an empty bladder and full beer.

[Mord]

Florian...the PBEM option isn't that bad...I never played WEGO online so I can't identify with that but I can say the PBEM for CMX2 is better than it was for CMX1...you can playback and plot with every email you recieve...

Mord.

[Jonny(FGM)]

*Sigh*

[sfhand]

I'll second the notion that pbem is a viable alternative to tcp/ip... if you use www-sendthisfile-com you won't have a problem transferring the really large files CMx2 can create and you will get email notifications everytime a new file is sent to you.

[Otrex]

Pardon my possibly antiquated question, but in regards to the single-player experience will the "turn based with replay" type turn from CMx1 will remain unchanged? This means it's basically a we-go system with the AI taking up one of the sides, correct?

[Blackcat]

I'll second the notion that pbem is a viable alternative to tcp/ip... if you use www-sendthisfile-com you won't have a problem transferring the really large files CMx2 can create and you will get email notifications everytime a new file is sent to you.

You might just as well argue that a clapped out 1960 VW Beetle is an alternative to a brand new 2011 Rolls Royce Phantom.

I must not post anymore on this subject as futulity meter will go off the scale. I must especially not mention that once BF had the Rolls Royce but deliebrately and with malice aforethought down graded it the ancient VW Beetle.

[aka_tom_w]

I certainly hope that BF don't regard Real Time as their ideal, WeGo may be PBEM only, but that is still preferred ( IMO ) if you want to have control over all of the battle.

....

And who wants to lose a battle to someone who is simply ... faster with a mouse ?

it is just my personal opinion but I don't believe CMx2 is like that, being simply fast with the mouse won't save you or help you if your tactics stink and your feel for the battlespace is not of the highest strategic level IMHO FWIW

[7thGalaxy]

I can see the trend going towards RTS as well.

I don't think that BFC will ever get rid of WEGO - It's far too important to the customer base. Indeed, I don't think it's even in the game begrudgingly - I seem to remember Steve saying he enjoyed playing both (as many players seem to). I really don't see them ever dropping WEGO.

If I remember back to an old discussion correctly, RT enables the engine to be far more detailed, and WEGO is basically running the RT engine with pauses.

[Baneman]

it is just my personal opinion but I don't believe CMx2 is like that, being simply fast with the mouse won't save you or help you if your tactics stink and your feel for the battlespace is not of the highest strategic level IMHO FWIW

Agreed, but if I'm rushing around in real time, I don't think I'll get much feel for the battlespace or have time to formulate tactics that don't stink.

What I like about WeGo is the way it practically eliminated all the drawbacks of turn based games and still allowed you time to think.

I don't want to knock real time, I just don't see myself or many of the wargamers I know, using it - for the reasons stated.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

I don't think that BFC will ever get rid of WEGO - It's far too important to the customer base. Indeed, I don't think it's even in the game begrudgingly - I seem to remember Steve saying he enjoyed playing both (as many players seem to). I really don't see them ever dropping WEGO.

If I remember back to an old discussion correctly, RT enables the engine to be far more detailed, and WEGO is basically running the RT engine with pauses.

Yep. They don't IMO really view RT as "more important" from a player standpoint. They just realize that RT is important to have in the game, and you can't build an RT engine out of a WEGO engine, but you can build a WEGO engine out of an RT engine.

Also (not directed at you, 7thGalaxy), RT is just as slowly-paced as WEGO if you pause frequently. This only really becomes an issue in TCP/IP play.

[Erik Springelkamp]

If I remember back to an old discussion correctly, RT enables the engine to be far more detailed, and WEGO is basically running the RT engine with pauses.

A big difference between RT and WEGO is the storage of the events.

In RT they are not written away for serialisation, and that seems to be the problem with WEGO TCP/IP, or replay during RT.

It doesn't seem to be an easy fix, because otherwise they would already have applied it.

So currently the engine seems to be able to either receive orders, or record running events, but not both at the same time. Strange, because during TCP/IP it has to stream all events over the network, so in theory it should be possible to stream that dataflow into a file?

[Jonny(FGM)]

I must especially not mention that once BF had the Rolls Royce but deliebrately and with malice aforethought down graded it the ancient VW Beetle.

As someone who is in the TCP/IP WEGO Crowd I think that's a little unfair, that comment suggests they had this feature in CMx2 and took it out out of spite, they never deliberately downgraded anything, just chose never to redo a feature that was in a totally different game

[sfhand]

You might just as well argue that a clapped out 1960 VW Beetle is an alternative to a brand new 2011 Rolls Royce Phantom.

I must not post anymore on this subject as futulity meter will go off the scale. I must especially not mention that once BF had the Rolls Royce but deliebrately and with malice aforethought down graded it the ancient VW Beetle.

As someone who really only plays pbem, even when CMx1 was available (including tcp/ip), I don't agree... but, since pbem is going to be the only way to play multiplayer wego, you really only have one option if you want to play the game that way

[Rocken]

Hi there,

Im totally with flo at this point. How come BFC thinks the WEGO crowd is that small. In my opinion WEGO TCP/IP (PBEM is just a timesink) is the core of this game for many reasons.

Just tried the CMSF "going to town" demo in RTS as red army and asked myself one question:

One vehicle is flanking left side, another on the right side. I have two mighty

TUBE GUYS facing them on each flank. ok here we go, how can i destroy those in pefect position without losing both teams?

The plan would be like: target enemy, pause 10 secs, use fast command, select floor, click the way point, face command, ow and hide. 2 times on different positions in 2 secs?!

I doubt even some korean pro warcraft3 players could handle that..

[noxnoctum]

Lol... here we go again hahaha .

[GreenAsJade]

Maybe it would help if we stopped calling it PBEM. Who is going to be emailing 50M files around? Not many.

So it WILL BE "TCP"

We will deliver information about the turn to each other over TCP, probably using SendThisFile

Admittedly, the game will have to start up each turn ... I wonder whether BTS could consider an easy way to "load the next file for this game"?

GaJ

PS:

How come BFC thinks the WEGO crowd is that small

What a stupid stupid question. Every now and then there's a question so inane that it just has to be called: this is one.

Where on earth did you get the idea that "BTS think that the WEGO crowd is small"?

[noxnoctum]

Where on earth did you get the idea that "BTS think that the WEGO crowd is small"?

Cause they've said many times that the multiplayer "community" is a fraction of their customer base and therefore multiplayer features (like wego tcp-ip or auto-pause RT or a lobby) or on the backburner.