Panic has me in its tight grip! No WeGo Tcp/IP

[Erik Springelkamp]

Cause they've said many times that the multiplayer "community" is a fraction of their customer base and therefore multiplayer features (like wego tcp-ip or auto-pause RT or a lobby) or on the backburner.

WEGO is independent of multiplayer.

I play WEGO against the AI more often than against a human.

[permanent666]

wouldn't it be a simple solution to make an autopause feature for tcip where the game stops every 60 seconds until both players press a go button?

[Rocken]

Sure its gonne played with "senddropboxstuff". But reopen and close and reopen and... what a waste of time. I hope there will be 34k intros

[noxnoctum]

wouldn't it be a simple solution to make an autopause feature for tcip where the game stops every 60 seconds until both players press a go button?

BFC have said that it would apparently be much less of a hassle than TCP-IP wego so I'm all for it. I think it would in many ways actually be superior to tcp-ip wego, though I would still miss the replay function dearly.

Still, it's not a priority for them, but on "the list".

And Erik that quote was specifically about tcp-ip wego.

[LongLeftFlank]

If for no other reason I would like it for the ability to have the game pause. Right now once it starts I sure hope you have an empty bladder and full beer.

That's why the Good Lord invented "empties", and gave boys that handy attachment....

Amen on the Pause. As I suggested elsewhere, perhaps it's something that activates when one player hits it but both players have to hit ESC for play to resume (so nobody gets caught off guard). You could also do a chess clock feature, but I suspect a prior agreement by the players to cap total play time would be simpler.

[Erwin]

"Maybe it would help if we stopped calling it PBEM. Who is going to be emailing 50M files around? Not many. So it WILL BE "TCP"

Quite correct imo. But, since many players like to have scenarios with more than a couple platoons and a vehicle or two (which is about all one can handle in RL unless one is a wrist twitch wizard), I wonder what are the implications for human-human play.

[Destraex1]

I swear somebody should do a video of live action wego. It would be hilarious.

It seems to me that real time is more realistic, but so called grogs hate it because it does not fit into their meandering ways..

what I like about WEGO is that its marginally better than turn based.

This is a game of tactics gents. We are not playing with an army. We are also not playing with perfection and should not try to be perfect. Men in real life do stupid things even with training. Chess like moves do not happen with infantry squads.. snap decisions do.

[GreenAsJade]

I couldn't make head or tails of this post ^^^ *shrug*

What exactly was the point?

Anyhow...

Quite correct imo. But, since many players like to have scenarios with more than a couple platoons and a vehicle or two (which is about all one can handle in RL unless one is a wrist twitch wizard), I wonder what are the implications for human-human play.

I think this one is easy. The implications are we will use file-sharing such as sendthisfile.com, and live happily ever after.

While a 50M email is a bid deal, a 50M file upload is not, and it will only continue to get less significant as internet speeds improve...

GaJ

[Destraex1]

My point was that so many people claiming to be grogs are whining about the lack of "god mode" aka WEGO/Turn based.

I did not want to derail the thread but after reading the first few pages felt the need to comment.

Granted as I get older I will probably prefer the WEGO system. At the moment I am doing it as intended... as real as possible.

Which mode is your favorite GreenAsJade?

[Erwin]

Ooops. Thanks for catching that GAJ. I meant RT (Real Time) not RL.

[gibsonm]

Do we really need to go through all this again?

Surely it was flogged to death the time before or the time beofre that?

(Again another plug to the use of the search tool before starting a "discussion" all over agin).

[Destraex1]

Which, the LIVE WEGO\WEGO PBEM\ discussion or the Real Time VS WEGO discussion?

For mine it was just a light hearted jab at what WEGO would look like in a video.

It made me think of that simply because people on youtube have been making a lot of videos like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA5D72twIes

I imagined a WEGO video like that... with lots of pauses to consult . Freezing while men in labcoates rushed over and made micro changes or measured distances.

[gibsonm]

No you are right no point in posting anything as it just generates more unrelated white noise.

Just another thread to "unsubscribe" from.

[GreenAsJade]

Do we really need to go through all this again?

Surely it was flogged to death the time before or the time beofre that?

(Again another plug to the use of the search tool before starting a "discussion" all over agin).

It's OK for you gibbo, you have the game to play.

What else are _we_ supposed to do....

GaJ

[Paper Tiger]

At least until the previews are over, I suppose this forum should be renamed the 'Combat Mission: Beyond Frustration Now'

[Gryphonne]

The auto pause at 60 seconds would be an elegant solution I think. Especially if you can still control you units in between those 60 seconds. So, in other words, just RT with a forced pause every 60 seconds to get a grip of the "bigger picture". Then both players hit go and the game plays for another 60 seconds. I can't see how this should be difficult to implement as it doesn't change anything about the RT mode itself.

[Erwin]

And then all you then have to do is allow replay during those 60 seconds. Should be really easy to program.

Then we could call it something clever, like "WEGO RT" or something lol.

[Catacol Highlander]

Another vote for a pause function - or promotion of the wego function without replay into the first patch. Please?

Loss of replay a shame, but not a biggie if it is possible to pause. I played CMBB and CMAK a lot by TCP for the best part of 10 years and towards the end was enjoying some really very big battles on big maps (even though I acknowledge CM was never designed to be a Battalion+ size game). For me if maps in cmbn are going to be possibly 4k by 4k then a pause in live tcp games is a must - it will be absolutely impossible to manage serveral companies operating at once with artillery and armoured support across a 4x4 map, and it will ruin the game for those of us who like to play it big. We will be forced to play small, and be frustrated.

And reducing the wego game to pbem only makes battles last a very long time - the beauty of a 2 or 3 hour tcp session in the past with the clock on 10mins (for example) was that 2 to 3 sessions got a battle finished. By pbem you are looking at around a month or more - - and that would be a big downgrade I think of the game's attractiveness.

And for the grumpy board addicts who yawn and say this has all been debated before - let's not forget that a good many players do not log into this board on a daily or even weekly basis. I played the CMBO demo from day 1 but missed the previous debate. If you dont want to post this time around then fine - but why sledge those who havent said their piece yet?

[noxnoctum]

The auto pause at 60 seconds would be an elegant solution I think. Especially if you can still control you units in between those 60 seconds. So, in other words, just RT with a forced pause every 60 seconds to get a grip of the "bigger picture". Then both players hit go and the game plays for another 60 seconds. I can't see how this should be difficult to implement as it doesn't change anything about the RT mode itself.

Yes 60 second "chess clock" > one player randomly pausing it at will.

And Destraex1, so-called "god mode" is more realistic than what we have now because in the military they have this thing called CHAIN OF COMMAND... it's not just one dude giving all the orders, from "attack that village" to, "throw a grenade through that window!!!" .

[Zonks54]

but why sledge those who havent said their piece yet?

Yeah, they did the same in a thread I started last week.

PBEM is fine if your going to have a turn or two a day, though some people like to sit and play a battle out, and it's going to be a pain in the arse checking your email and loading up the game every turn.

Obviously some people need plenty of time to think their moves through, usually the ones who slam realtime, I'm not a big fan of it but I do enjoy a game on COH with my son on occasion.

PBEM is vintage, it's fine to have the option, but as the only option? I think this decision will cost these guys some sales.

[noxnoctum]

Yeah, they did the same in a thread I started last week.

PBEM is fine if your going to have a turn or two a day, though some people like to sit and play a battle out, and it's going to be a pain in the arse checking your email and loading up the game every turn.

Obviously some people need plenty of time to think their moves through, usually the ones who slam realtime, I'm not a big fan of it but I do enjoy a game on COH with my son on occasion.

PBEM is vintage, it's fine to have the option, but as the only option? I think this decision will cost these guys some sales.

Difference with CoH is that you never have more than what's equivalent to two platoons ever (at least in multiplayer). Not to mention the maps are minuscule compared to a CM map.

[Zonks54]

Difference with CoH is that you never have more than what's equivalent to two platoons ever (at least in multiplayer). Not to mention the maps are minuscule compared to a CM map.

You have totally missed the point of my post, it has nothing to do with COH other than to mention that I have a game with my oldest boy now and again and that I'm not a big fan of RTS.

Playing over TCP is not realtime unless there are no turns/pauses, if I remember correctly, previously playing over TCP we still had our orders phase, clicked go when complete, then the orders where played out over 60 seconds of realtime, then began the orders phase again, it was a perfectly good system.

Why they are going back to a PBEM as the only option in my opinion is only going to limit interest in the multiplayer component of the game, but if they are happy and can get by with a tiny share of the market, thats their decision.

As he has said though, "if you don't like it, thats tough", but as he also said, "We have made mistakes".

[gibsonm]

Playing over TCP is not realtime unless there are no turns/pauses, if I remember correctly, previously playing over TCP we still had our orders phase, clicked go when complete, then the orders where played out over 60 seconds of realtime, then began the orders phase again, it was a perfectly good system.

Well you did have "turns" of a sort in that you could tailor how long you had for each move.

Lots of units / people who wanted to micro manage then say a 1 min window per move.

Not many units or just want quick execution then say a 20 sec window.

So, for example, you could have 1 minute allocated to you, whip round and confirm everything in 15 sec and press "go" but then you'd wait for your opponent. If they finished early then the "turn was resolved before the 1 minute allocation expired.

[Destraex1]

Yes 60 second "chess clock" > one player randomly pausing it at will.

And Destraex1, so-called "god mode" is more realistic than what we have now because in the military they have this thing called CHAIN OF COMMAND... it's not just one dude giving all the orders, from "attack that village" to, "throw a grenade through that window!!!" .

I understand the conundrum. In WEGO your chain of command is complete and instantaneous perfection. Your "Commander" acts like a perfect hive mind by freezing time and jumping into the mind of every level of command down to squad NCOs.

With real time you get back some of that command delay and also that confusion with orders that happens when each commander interprets what he thinks the orders actually mean. Also some of the stupidity that happens to people under pressure.

In having real time though you lose some of the initiative for those troops that you cannot control while managing others. I think its a good trade off, especially considering what the AI is.

Player VS Player is where you WEGO may have more advantages over real time. Being that in part when you move men against your enemy you may or may not be moving against human controlled men at that point in time. With WEGO you are always moving against a human. However I still consider Real Time to be much more fun and am happy to make sure I am in the right place at the right time. Not that I have ever played head to head with this game.

In fact I am kinda a rookie with this game engine in general. Only having paddled with it compared to other games. I had a lot of trouble getting in the mood so to speak to fight a theoretical enemy with modern equipment.

[gibsonm]

Well FWIW I reckon its the other way round.

In WEGO you issue orders and sit back and see what happens. If 15 sec into the turn something unexpected happens - too bad your men are commited to the current course of action and you have 45 secs of stress and hope that at the end of the turn you'll have enough stuff left to react.

In RT you can micro manage to your heart's content and adjust as often as needed.

Guys not going where you want them to? Simple, cancel the remainder of that movement command and issue new ones.

New threat emerges? Simple. Issue new target commands and that squad will instantly react to your new orders.

If you are supposed to be the Company commander (say) then you have infinitely more control and much less lag / "friction" in RT than you RL counterpart has.