Gpig Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Elvis, when you entered the town, did you happen to notice if any of the houses had basements? ;-) I'm guessing that since the CMSF style ditches/trenches are out, that basements will also be out. (The frame-rate hit on below level deformations is a big deal.) Still, I wonder if BFC will be adding basements (and eventually sewers) to CM2... is that something you or BFC can comment on? Cheers, Gpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 They will have to come up with some sort of underground fighting system when they get around to Giant Gophers of Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Elvis, when you entered the town, did you happen to notice if any of the houses had basements? He was busy admiring the gracious foyer, the capacious walk-in-closets and the breakfast nook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astano Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 They should use a tombstone icon for dead and the red cross for wounded. In CMSF (and by extension CMBN) this is moddable. There is a CMSF mod that leaves the red crosses for incapacitated and changes them to a darker skull and cross bones for KIA. I would imagine someone will come out with something similar before long for CMBN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneymaxx Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Fifteen fatalities from a single 50 mm seems just a tad high even though they were all bunched together. Fifteen wounded to one degree or another strikes me as entirely plausible. Michael I would not be all that surprised if all were dead. The lethal radius for the Mark II A1 frag grenade is mostly stated at around 5 meters (weighing 640 grams). Given that the truck is roughly 7 meters long you already have a good chance of killing everybody with it. Since the Sprenggranate 38 is roughly 3 times as heavy (1.8 Kg) a 100% lethality does seem plausible, especially since they were not not in any kind of cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Elvis, when you entered the town, did you happen to notice if any of the houses had basements? ;-) Cheers, Gpig Yes, I did notice if any of the houses had basements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Do the crosses signify fatalities or just wounded? Fifteen fatalities from a single 50 mm seems just a tad high even though they were all bunched together. Fifteen wounded to one degree or another strikes me as entirely plausible. Michael As others have said it reflects both KIA and WIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 How many Pioneers were in that truck? 24? I'll try to go reload the file to double check but that sounds about right. And there were also guys driving the truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Elvis, when you entered the town, did you happen to notice if any of the houses had basements? ;-) I'm guessing that since the CMSF style ditches/trenches are out, that basements will also be out. (The frame-rate hit on below level deformations is a big deal.) Still, I wonder if BFC will be adding basements (and eventually sewers) to CM2... is that something you or BFC can comment on? Cheers, Gpig Basements and sewers are really totally separate issues. A basement is basically just a building with its first story set in in crater with a simple 3D shape. Not really subterranean as the world mesh is not over the basement. What we would need is code for the vertical-sided holes to set buildings in and to allow direct access to the second level from the ground. Basements became much more important to the tactical environment as the Allied armies approached Germany, so hopefully we will see some implementation in a later module or the Bulge title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I think you will find that there are more than enough fragments to do the job. http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/woundblstcs/chapter1figure26.jpg On a related note, KIA could also mean those who will die unless they receive immediate Casevac (the golden hour) and state of the art medical and surgical procedures, in other words they are dead! I second the basements for later modules campaign, or a fudge that allows troops in a certain part of the lower floor to have very high defensive values. Talking of which, is their any difference between a fortified and non-fortified house. Farms in Normandy could be made to resemble miniature forts, if enough engineering assets were available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 ... is their any difference between a fortified and non-fortified house. Farms in Normandy could be made to resemble miniature forts, if enough engineering assets were available. I went over the the Normandy battlefields a couple of years back and most of the old farm buildings didn't look as if they needed any engineering. We are talikng solid stone walls a couple of feet thick. However, Snake-eye is your man for this sort of stuff he lives there and can comment more fully on regional differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Elvis, when you entered the town, did you happen to notice if any of the houses had basements? ;-) I'm guessing that since the CMSF style ditches/trenches are out, that basements will also be out. (The frame-rate hit on below level deformations is a big deal.) Still, I wonder if BFC will be adding basements (and eventually sewers) to CM2... is that something you or BFC can comment on? Cheers, Gpig I would think basements and some kind of abstracted sewer movement system would be desirable especially when they get around to creating CMEF (EF=Eastern Front). Defenders in Stalingrad used sewers to great effect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Yes. I was curious because basements would be an interesting thing to implement for game-play. I suppose it could be quite difficult to implement effectively, as well. I was reading about how the Germans, north of Falaise (in Tily-la-Campagne), had reinforced the basements and then demolished the upper storeys of the houses. Creating low bunkers in effect. Not an easy place to assault. Gpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hey Gpig, where are you working in Vancouver now? EA? I get up there several times a year now with my new job (NGRAIN). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Interesting Bundeswehr clip that shows what I mean about fortifying structures. I understand about the structural integrity but, as the clip shows thick walls might hamper attempts to make loopholes and firing positions. If anyone is interested the other three films are the effects of weapons on structures, an assault on a defended village and defending an industrial zone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZRCDn1E-rw&feature=related&fmt=18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Heya Bil, I'm not at EA, but another studio in Gastown. (Check your mail) We should start some PBEM games once CMBN is out. We can compare notes over beers sometime. Cheers, Gpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Gpig. Got your mail, thanks. Definitely we'll have to play when you get the game. Next time I'm in Vancouver we'll get together and have a drink or three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Dave Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Great video Vark, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Interesting Bundeswehr clip that shows what I mean about fortifying structures. I understand about the structural integrity but, as the clip shows thick walls might hamper attempts to make loopholes and firing positions. If anyone is interested the other three films are the effects of weapons on structures, an assault on a defended village and defending an industrial zone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZRCDn1E-rw&feature=related&fmt=18 Sensational, Vark, thank you very much! I can't get enough of that first movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 whew, just caught up with this thread... I find some of the points raised by JasonC interesting...my understanding is that if, say, two of a company's platoons have been wiped out, the remaining platoon will carry on as if nothing had happened? In other words, only the individual squads which have suffered casualties will suffer any morale effects from the losses? Is that right? I have not played CMSF in ages, so am not familiar with how it deals with "global" morale, if at all. It does not seem realistic to me that units (and player/commanders) can completely ignore the aggregate losses suffered by their side when determining how to proceed. I think Steve was basically acknowledging this when he wrote: *************** While we can, and in fact do, make game features to discourage historically incorrect and/or questionable behavior within the game, there's only so much we can do before we start alienating players. Since a game without enough players paying to play means a short life for the developer, there is an obvious reluctance to alienate customers for the pure sake of realism when that particular bit of realism risks alienation. Because the basic elements of a wargame alienate such a massively huge chunk of the potential market, wargame developers have to tread very carefully. *********** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 CMx2 does have Global Morale. The entire force's Morale is made more brittle by casualties, though it only really starts to show itself when casualties become serious. It bit both Elvis and JonS pretty hard in the end. The problem, from a historical accuracy standpoint, is that the player is still allowed to keep the battle going when in real life one or the other side would have retired from the field. Since the player wants to win, not accurately portray a WW2 casualty actuarial sheet, he tends to do things which would simply not happen in a real battle. Which is why I've said over and over and over again... the weakest link in a wargame's realism is often the player himself, not the game. The more realistic the wargame, the less the player can abuse reality but the fundamental truth does not change; players are not real life commanders. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 CMSF started to handle that quite well, when designers made the friendly casualty costs become very high when calculating victory levels. One can have fun being Rambo and ignoring friendly KIA and WIA. But, for those who enjoy the significantly added challenge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sand digger Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 On morale and casualties, it can work both ways. Usually local casualties ie those within an individuals vicinity, induced caution at least but sometimes they created anger due to the loss of mates and a determination to avenge that loss. Its using a very broad brush to say that casualties always reduced morale and therefore effectiveness. Also unless there is an awareness of casualties then they can have no effect on morale or anything else, thats relevant to any concept of global loss of morale. Separate groups may well have no such immediate knowledge. Basically what I'm getting at is in war anything can happen and particularly individuals and groups can react differently to each other in similar situations. I just hope this is reflected in the game but that seems in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninac15 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh Yeah!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyguns Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Is there gonna be another AAR? Really enjoyed the last one (plus the pics) greatly!!!! Trying not be pushy, but just have to have something until the game is released;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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