BFCElvis Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 That sounds okay to me. A side note: Is it technically possible to show game time or turn number in one corner of the screenshots? I know that you often mention the time at the start of your posts, but having the time actually represented in the pics would make it a lot easier to follow the action and place each screenshot in relation to the action in others. Michael The time is in almost every one of my screen shots. In the top right is the compass. In the middle of that is the time of day. I took some screen shots that when saved had all sorts of funky stuff in the screen shot like parts of my open browser and other programs that were running in the backgroud. In the interest of time I just cropped those bits out.They are the ones without the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Elvis, you have mentioned a number of time that the troops on hill 154 were difficult to rally because they were out of command. What caused this? Did some of your HQs get blitzed, or did you get the troops to far from their commanders when everyone got pinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 JonS, how did your troops C2 hold up during the course of the battle? Was it easier to maintain because you were on the defensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Elvis, you have mentioned a number of time that the troops on hill 154 were difficult to rally because they were out of command. What caused this? Did some of your HQs get blitzed, or did you get the troops to far from their commanders when everyone got pinned. The COs got went and got themselves dead. They were badly beaten up after the foolish rush into the woods and from there they got kilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 JonS, how did your troops C2 hold up during the course of the battle? Was it easier to maintain because you were on the defensive? Intially ok, and my reserves were a godsend while they were still uncomitted. But by the end my forces had more than had enough. The men I had in la Campagne/Das Alamo collapsed virtually without a fight, and the 'defence' I had on Hill 144 was in the process of collapsing in the face of Elvis' renewed advance there. It was probably easier for me in that I didnt usually have to move my men forward into the face of enemy fire. Even so, by the end of the battle many of my men wouldn't even defend. One significant advantage I had was that Elvis didn't know that. Then again, I didn't know how feeble his forces had become. With a bit of thought and care I could probably have driven all his forces off Hill 154, but I was too scared of how fragile my own men had become to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulik Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I was curious, that PAK which shoot and hit with first shot the moving truck. It seems like it was moving in tall grassfield (hard to guess the distance when you can't align the target with objects near it) from what it seems to be pretty far away. Astonishing gunner skills, luck, bug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wengart Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Probably a combination of gunner competency and luck, but really we shouldn't be drawing conclusions from a single shot in a single hour and a half game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I was curious, that PAK which shoot and hit with first shot the moving truck. It seems like it was moving in tall grassfield (hard to guess the distance when you can't align the target with objects near it) from what it seems to be pretty far away. Astonishing gunner skills, luck, bug? I think not.... dismounts in tall grass = descent concealment if stationary. A 2.5 - 3 Ton Truck moving in tall grass = BAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 CMx2 simulates different heights, as opposed to CMx1's (and pre CM:SF v1.05) single height system. This means cover and concealment are relative to the height of a vehicle or individual soldier. As was just stated, soldiers dismounted in tall grass are going to be very hard to see, therefore harder to hit with direct fire. A Deuce driving around is just asking for some unwanted attention Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulik Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I think not.... dismounts in tall grass = descent concealment if stationary. A 2.5 - 3 Ton Truck moving in tall grass = BAT Im not talking about concealment. Its just when your target is on a meadow without objects near it, its hard to judge its speed and distance thus correctly adjust the lead and drop for the round. And im not implying something is wrong here nor drawing any conclusion, it just catched my attention as a helluva shot. As i remember in CMx1 the unmoved guns and mortars had bonus for shooting on targets on or near TRPs. Did this stay for CMx2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Im not talking about concealment. Its just when your target is on a meadow without objects near it, its hard to judge its speed and distance thus correctly adjust the lead and drop for the round. And im not implying something is wrong here nor drawing any conclusion, it just catched my attention as a helluva shot. As i remember in CMx1 the unmoved guns and mortars had bonus for shooting on targets on or near TRPs. Did this stay for CMx2? I don't think the AAR said how many rounds where fired before a hit was scored and I must confess I've been somewhat spoiled by playing blue in CMSF where if you spot it you can normally kill it with one shot. Maybe Jon S or Elvis can shed some light on mid 20th century gunnery accuracies as it relates to CMBN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Range is also critically important. At a few hundred meters I'd be surprised if a crew could miss something that big. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 As usual, I have to regret not having the numbers at my fingertips, but from years of reading I'd venture to guess that first round hits, while not unknown, were seldom seen except at close range, by which I mean 200 meters or less. But a lot depends on circumstances and how good the gunner is and how cool under stress. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 We have also not been told if the truck was zig zagging, or just cruising along like it owned the joint. It really seems to me that Elvis misread what had LOS to where and paid full retail for the mistake. C3k will enlighten us as to various hit probabilities soon enough. That, and graphical errors with holster flaps, but I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 We have also not been told if the truck was zig zagging, or just cruising along like it owned the joint. It really seems to me that Elvis misread what had LOS to where and paid full retail for the mistake. C3k will enlighten us as to various hit probabilities soon enough. That, and graphical errors with holster flaps, but I digress. No zigzag. And yes, I thought from moving so much through the exact same area that the coast was clear of everything except maybe some small arms fire. I think it was a single shot but I can't be sure. Jon probably knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Keep in mind we're talking about a 6x6 Studebaker here (I assume), not a recon vehicle built for off-road travel, like a Jeep. One of the advantages of the Studebaker truck was that it had pretty decent off-road capability compared to other vehicles in its class, but it that doesn't mean that it was as capable as something really built to go off road, like a Jeep. The 6x6 drive was more for pulling cargo over poor quality roads than traipsing off cross-country. So, if the modeling has it right, it should have been moving well below top speed across the field, especially with a full load of soldiers in the back. Agricultural fields are generally not golf-course flat, and go too fast over a bump, those GIs will get pitched right out the back. It's also a pretty tall target, which makes hitting it at a distance much easier, since you have a larger margin of error on range. And assuming the gun was firing HE, a short or lateral near miss would have been as good as a hit. Overall, I don't find a first round KO all that surprising. If you re-ran the turn and it happened all or nearly all the time, that might give me pause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 While we have this engagement under the microscope, here are some more questions. 1. Which pak made the shot? Was it a Pak38/50 or a pak40/75. 2. What are the chances that a single HE or AP round (baring a catastrophic) hit would kill all occupants? 3. How many confirmed casualties from the single shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 While we have this engagement under the microscope, here are some more questions. 1. Which pak made the shot? Was it a Pak38/50 or a pak40/75. 2. What are the chances that a single HE or AP round (baring a catastrophic) hit would kill all occupants? 3. How many confirmed casualties from the single shot? It was the Pak38/50 on Hill 154. I think it would have been something much bigger to kill everyone. 14 confirmed. They all appeared at the same moment which really is a bummer to see. Count the crosses/ Ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneymaxx Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Count the crosses/ Ouch Fifteen . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 15 was my count as well but I wont quibble over 1 body more or less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 How many Pioneers were in that truck? 24? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Do the crosses signify fatalities or just wounded? Fifteen fatalities from a single 50 mm seems just a tad high even though they were all bunched together. Fifteen wounded to one degree or another strikes me as entirely plausible. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Assuming they've kept the same system from CMSF (and I don't see why they'd change this), the red cross = dead OR incapacitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 It might be a little difficult to sort dead from wounded by the shell vs the truck burning. I seem to recall it smoked almost immediately. And how much ammo was on board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEY Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 They should use a tombstone icon for dead and the red cross for wounded. Just had to post to see what my status as a member is, seemed to had been knocked outa the loop here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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