Lets_All_Fight Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Just noticed something!!!!! * T-junction walls!!!!!!!!!!!! :) Guys, I may sound batsh*t crazy to you, but I just spent 3 years building at least a thousand urban housing compounds in downtown Ramadi, and making do with those funky diagonal intersections when I needed a 3-way junction. OK, I am batsh*t crazy.... Nope, you're not crazy. T-junction walls will make life so much easier for those of us who love to make maps. I would kill for them in my SF creations. I wish we could get wall with doorways/gates as well.... Man, the rural buildings just look fantastic as well. Nice one BFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Spotting those MGs seemed a little fast to me too. The one MG looks like its in a building behind another building. Doesn't look like they are firing. I think 250m is a fairly long distance to spot them unless they are running around. Even if they aren't hiding its not as though MGs wouldn't be concerned about being spotted (they know the enemy is close) I liked how in CMX1 it took a while to be spotted even when Firing. IMHO, spotting needs to me much more degraded in the WWII setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I liked how in CMX1 it took a while to be spotted even when Firing. IMHO, spotting needs to me much more degraded in the WWII setting. Good point, as i said somewhere else i think that the way it was in CMSF (shoting = get spotted) is odd in some situations. It would be great if there was some kind of delay in the spotting system. Like for the MG's you get one of those ? icons, maybe not even at the correct position, for like 2 or 3 minutes or even longer before you are able to fully spot a stationary infantry unit. There was a thread with a big discuss about the hole spotting system, but still i have the feeling that there is something that needs a bit tweaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Spotting those MGs seemed a little fast to me too. The one MG looks like its in a building behind another building. Doesn't look like they are firing. I think 250m is a fairly long distance to spot them unless they are running around. Even if they aren't hiding its not as though MGs wouldn't be concerned about being spotted (they know the enemy is close) I liked how in CMX1 it took a while to be spotted even when Firing. IMHO, spotting needs to me much more degraded in the WWII setting. I'd say wait for the demo before forming an opinion. There can be any number of reasons why those MGs were spotted that fast (or perceived as being spotted that fast). I know that in CMSF have spend whole scenarios under fire from automatic grenade launchers without ever finding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 The machine gun teams fire on my Sherman. Full size QUOTE] Just wondering about the pic which seems to show all 3 members of the gun team firing. Is this accurate? Wouldn't one or both of the support guys normally be helping with the belt feed on the gun or have binoculars out spotting fall of shot and looking for targets, rather than firing their individual weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 I'm not sure what you guys mean by" spotted so fast". They are spotted whenh tey are seen. Until then they aren't spotted and because of that I have no way of knowing how long they were in my LOS before being spotted so I'm not sure how you do. I'm not trying to be a wise ass but how do you know? The building they are in has been in somebodys LOS for most of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Yes, vehicles can provide cover for infantry. Not necessarily good/perfect cover, but that is up to the situation. For example, a Jeep isn't going to do the same as a Jagdtiger Regarding the T junctions... this is one of those things that we even take for granted now. Charles had to program quite a bit of TacAI to be able to deal with those things, which is why they weren't in CM:SF/CM:A. Spotting stuff is, as has just been pointed out, a little hard to draw conclusions about without having been in the game itself. Also, as Elvis pointed out, there's no way to know if something is shooting at you because it was ordered to or the TacAI took it upon itself. Crew members of a heavy weapon can engage targets with their own personal weapons. However, this is supposed to be limited to non-esscential crew and generally only when the distances are fairly close. A HMG usually only requires 3 soldiers to operate near full effectiveness. Gunner (fires weapon), Assistant Gunner (feeds ammo, changes barrel), Ammo Bearer (gets belts prepped for Assistant Gunner). Having 3 additional Ammo Bearers doesn't really do much for the operation of the gun, but of course has a lot to do with the overall ammo supply, security, transportation, etc. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 One other thing to add about the Sherman sighting...The only enemy unit that was not in a place that someone had an LOS to most of the game was the Schreck team. C2 helps with sighting (and the Sherman is still in C2). The schreck team set up in the open behind a wall and I am above it. It did not appear to be "hiding" behind the wall. Easy sighting is not something I have experienced with CMBN and certainly not this battle. If anything there have been times that I wondered why I didn't see something earlier. When we're done I'll read what Jon has done and maybe even rewatch some turns from his side to get a better idea of what has been going on. One thing is for sure, thick foliage will provide excellent concealment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I see an outhouse upper left. Cool. I think it was mentioned a while ago that sheds etc. were in the game. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I wish we could get wall with doorways/gates as well.... . Look at the building that has the shrek icon on it...look at its left corner...there appears to be wall...fence...wall...that piece of fence could be a gate...there is a fence with a small opening in one of the screen shots...I think in the Normandy Bones thread...so we may having something similar to a gate door, if it's not a perfect representation...I myself am hoping for some wrought iron fence, would look great around a grave yard. Mord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Seeing the pics, I was wondering..can a small team, a sniper etc take cover behind those haystacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Also, another thing Elvis. How hard is to advance under MG42's fire? I was running some tests with CMSF and I could attack head on an mg in the open. They seem to aim a bit high and not on the ground. Do squads hit the dirt more often under MG fire in Normandy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Also, another thing Elvis. How hard is to advance under MG42's fire? I was running some tests with CMSF and I could attack head on an mg in the open. They seem to aim a bit high and not on the ground. Do squads hit the dirt more often under MG fire in Normandy? As you would expect it isn't easy. Men will go to ground easily and its usually because someone has been killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Posted by Elvis: "I'm not sure what you guys mean by" spotted so fast". They are spotted whenh tey are seen. Until then they aren't spotted and because of that I have no way of knowing how long they were in my LOS before being spotted so I'm not sure how you do. I'm not trying to be a wise ass but how do you know? The building they are in has been in somebodys LOS for most of the game." Posted in DAR by Elvis: "On Hill 144 I move my Sherman forward to try to get a look at the Villa from the hillside. As I arrive what I have been trying to get the entire battle is now laid out in front of me. Not only do I have a good look at the Villa but I also have targets!!!!! 3 machine gun teams and Panzerschreck team and a firing position to reach almost the entire Villa" From your DAR it seems to me that you just gained LOS to the ville and that even you were surprised that you already had targets. I understand that things are spotted when they are seen. Perhaps you can shed some light on how long your tank was in LOS before the targets appeared. Or if indeed you had other units that had LOS to them before, but your DAR made it sound as though this was your first actual view into the town. It is PBEM so if ya get time check it out if ya would. It seemed in your post that they started firing after they were spotted but I could be mistaken. You should hear the pings off the tank if they opened up before being spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Flavor Objects, of which the Haystack is one, can provide concealment but not cover. The Haystack is on the edge of what we allow for size. If we allowed Flavor Objects to be much bigger then we'd run into situations where one should be able to gain cover from the object simply because of its mass. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Posted by Elvis: "I'm not sure what you guys mean by" spotted so fast". They are spotted whenh tey are seen. Until then they aren't spotted and because of that I have no way of knowing how long they were in my LOS before being spotted so I'm not sure how you do. I'm not trying to be a wise ass but how do you know? The building they are in has been in somebodys LOS for most of the game." Posted in DAR by Elvis: "On Hill 144 I move my Sherman forward to try to get a look at the Villa from the hillside. As I arrive what I have been trying to get the entire battle is now laid out in front of me. Not only do I have a good look at the Villa but I also have targets!!!!! 3 machine gun teams and Panzerschreck team and a firing position to reach almost the entire Villa" From your DAR it seems to me that you just gained LOS to the ville and that even you were surprised that you already had targets. I understand that things are spotted when they are seen. Perhaps you can shed some light on how long your tank was in LOS before the targets appeared. Or if indeed you had other units that had LOS to them before, but your DAR made it sound as though this was your first actual view into the town. It is PBEM so if ya get time check it out if ya would. It seemed in your post that they started firing after they were spotted but I could be mistaken. You should hear the pings off the tank if they opened up before being spotted. It may have been a half turn or maybe a full minute. It was not like the moment the tank reached its position they all came into view. The MG on the left part of the screen shot is the most forward part of the Villa to my advance. The MG in there had been harassing my guys trying to come across the center field for a while. The buildings that the closer shot shows the MG teams firing from have been in somebody's LOS nearly the entire game. When I targeted the artlillery on the Villa those buildings are what I used to target. I didn't spot anyone in there but I had LOS to those locations for most of the game so when something starts happening in there it will be noticed. And as I mentioned a couple of posts the Panzershreck team was in a location I did not have any LOS to until after arriving in the elevated position with the Sherman. When reaching the position what came into view instantly for me was the Villa. I knew I had LOS to most buildings and that was HUGE for me. After that is when the targets also came into view. There are several reasons the MG targets could have been spotted by the Sherman. I suspect it was a combination of things. The Sherman is in full C2 and as has been discussed that helps with spotting, when the guns fired on my position that helped with spotting, my Sherman (at the time) was unbuttoned that helped with spotting. I believe Jon has posted up to this point in the game so t may be interesting to hear if he targeted my Sherman or if the AI did. Either way the Sherman was spotted by the Germans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonJakeOz Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Some great questions folks... But perhaps the most significant one still missing is.... Tube Guy - The untold story.... (ps my apologies for cute kid excesses) VonJake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 66666 views wow ! wonder what CMSF AARs achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 1508 hrs I dodged a HUGE bullet against the panzerschrek on Hill 154. One thing it let me know is that I HAVE to get out of those woods right away. The Germans are like ninjas in there. I never see them until it’s too late. I have to find a different way to knock out that AT gun. With the number of Shermans I have lost knocking it out may be what makes or breaks this battle. While these thoughts are going through my mind I am hit with a hand grenade. Again I’m amazed that at such close range I haven’t seen another unit approaching. And then BAM! As I am backing out of the woods a panzerfaust hits me. My luck has run out with this Sherman. Full size On Hill 144, the Sherman I have moved into position there is starting to rearrange the architecture of the Villa. I have seen Germans moving into the building in the rear and have decided to try to level it. I took this screen shot because it shows a few things about both the battlefield we are fighting on and the game engine. I’m going to take a detour here for a second to talk about something that I love with the way CMx2 models rounds. A very early battle I played with CMBN I had a bazooka team on a hill with an LOS to a Panzer Mark IV and a few trees in between. The first shot the bazooka took sailed over the Mark IV. The second hit a tree that was between the two. It was a WOW moment for me. I had seen this kind of thing in CMSF plenty of times but there was something about that bazooka shot that gave me goose bumps. I had the same feeling here. You can see in the screen shot where I have targeted and you can tell from the smoke in the area that other shots have already hit the building. But you can also see a round exploding in the tree that blocked a shot. When you see things like that happen it really brings you deep into the game and the battle. The immersion can be intense at times. Full size Thanks for indulging me with the detour. Back to fighting for my life (or dignity) ….. In the Villa I now see a lot of movement. It is difficult to tell if this is because of the fire they have been receiving or he is simply moving his men out of harms way. Either way I’m happy for the intel it is providing. Full size The Panzerschrek that was seen in the previous report has not improved his position. The good news for him is that he won’t have to worry about it anymore. Full size The MG team that I had moved up next to the surviving Sherman on Hill 154 no longer has the main gun. I advance them forward with a flanking view of the Villa. Full size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 I have been trying to move anything with a gun up the middle toward the Villa but they have been subjected to seeming phantom shots that continuously keep them going to ground. This has been making progress very slow. Finally I am able to see their position of the far hill behind the Villa. I need to get some sort of heavy fire on that if I am going to make any real push up the middle. Full size On Hill 154 I get me AT gun into a foxhole and begin unlimbering it. The hope is that it will provide some extra defensive fire for my men clinging to Hill 154. But sure enough, an uninvited guest shows up. Full size An exchange of fire leaves the German dead. But not before he can throw another of those nasty potato mashers knocking out my gun. Full size For now there is nothing else to do on Hill 154 but continue to set my troops up to provide some mutual protection and hold onto the very tenuous ground that so many have lost their lives to gain. Thank goodness Tube Guy is still on the scene. Full size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Fantastic read from both sides. I vote this the screenshot of the thread so far: Brilliant! This should be on the cover of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Is it my idea or does this road have a slight curve? (bottom left) I also like the new UI touches and the directional bases! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I am not sure, but it appears the road is going over a hill, giving it a curved look from our perspective. And Tube Guy belongs on the cover if the box. Assuming there is a box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If tube guy dies I shall be heavily distrought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I am not sure, but it appears the road is going over a hill, giving it a curved look from our perspective. And Tube Guy belongs on the cover if the box. Assuming there is a box. Oh, I think you are right. Its a hill. I'm imagining too many things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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