BFCElvis Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 It took last years Visual Bone thread 6 months to have over 57,000 views. This thread did that in 10 days. I'm hoping for 100,000 before this is over. That might also mean that Jon's thread gets 75,000 Thank you for your viewership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thank you for your viewership. Perhaps we should coin a new phrase here for Elvis's "Hey mom look at me!" behavior? How about "View Counter Whore"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 How about anther DAR report instead? Seems like forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Perhaps we should coin a new phrase here for Elvis's "Hey mom look at me!" behavior? How about "View Counter Whore"? Well, I don't know about the "hey mom look at me" behavior (I'm not feeling that) but you would not be the first to use the View Counter Whore phrase. Although in truth it was Jon who first referred to himself as a View Counter Slut in an email to me a few days after the DARs started.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Well, I don't know about the "hey mom look at me" behavior (I'm not feeling that) but you would not be the first to use the View Counter Whore phrase. Although in truth it was Jon who first referred to himself as a View Counter Slut in an email to me a few days after the DARs started.. I was only kidding you - I was not at all serious. Your observation is spot on and bodes well for BF as - to me - anyone viewing the DAR could not but come away impressed. Seeing is believing baby! ...but I do prefer whore since slut is already taken by "mod slut". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Elbow, some good stuff in here and I'm enjoying you DAR. One question though. How does the infantry fighting feel compared to CMSF? Are the sides more even and how is the accuracy at various ranges compared to CMSF. Does it feel right? Oh, and when the game comes out, please remember to give me a game. cheers and well done.... So far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Elbow, some good stuff in here and I'm enjoying you DAR. One question though. How does the infantry fighting feel compared to CMSF? Are the sides more even and how is the accuracy at various ranges compared to CMSF. Does it feel right? Oh, and when the game comes out, please remember to give me a game. cheers and well done.... So far. The sides are much more even and taking fire is not nearly as lethal as CMSF (unless you catch yourself point blank, tired and facing German SMGs in the woods). C2 comes more into play. Because every squad does not have a radio/walkie talkie like CMSF, maintaining C2 can be difficult under harsh conditions. When C2 breaks down and your unit is a little roughed up it will not perform its orders as well (or at all). The terrain (buildings obviously excluded) is very different and provides cover and concealment not seen on most CMSF maps. Because of this movement out of LOS happens much more frequently (as you would expect). And the last part of the equation (until I can think of some aspect I've forgotten) is that spotting of infantry is more difficult. Several things such as terrain, night vision, troop morale, etc contribute to that. That being said I don't believe any of things are not possible in CMSF. Steve, please correct me if I am wrong, but the basics of the infantry are the same in both games. What changes the behavior and feel is how the infantry reacts under the different conditions seen in CMBN, not a fundamental change in how infantry is modeled in the game (did that sentence make sense?). I would be a good choice for one of your first games because I'm easy pickins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 I know what I forgot...a couple of the things I mention above were already written up in my next post so your timing is good. Just sorting out the screen shots now. Also, I have gotten a different appreciation for infantry in CMSF from playing CMBN. There are aspects of C2 that were not as apparent to me in CMSF now after playing CMBN for a while a lot has been cleared up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphonne Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hey Elvis, What is the added value of higher echelon HQ units in CMBN compared to CMx1 for example? I remember using Coy and Btn HQs as either scouts, gap fillers or simply as add ons for anti tank guns when they had interesting bonusses. Are Btn HQs still just large SMG teams or do they add something more significant to the battlefield? Regards, Gryph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hey Elvis, What is the added value of higher echelon HQ units in CMBN compared to CMx1 for example? I remember using Coy and Btn HQs as either scouts, gap fillers or simply as add ons for anti tank guns when they had interesting bonusses. Are Btn HQs still just large SMG teams or do they add something more significant to the battlefield? Regards, Gryph I'm not sure about morale, but having a good C2 up the whole command echelon allows every unit under the Btn HQ to share information, albeit with some delay. One advantage is that it will reduce the clutter of spotted contacts, because sometimes an enemy unit can be spotted twice by different units, etc... It will probably also reduce artillery delay, at least it does in CMSF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 In CM:BN if I lose my platoon HQ unit can the Company HQ unit be used to keep the three squads in command ala CM1? In other words....can I use my Company HQ to keep squads in command if the platoon HQ is gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Good point. I used Co HQ's ALL the time if they had better ratings than the platoon HQ's. But, I thought it rather gamey, so that's one feature I hope has been tinkered with. It is one of the least realistic aspects of CM1 to go around with a "super platoon" of 6-8+ squads under a high value Co HQ. But, it's very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 1502 hrs With the second JPz IV knocked out and only the last AT as a long range threat for my movements I’m feeling pretty good about the progress I’m making. It’s always a bad idea to feel good I am finding. Moments after the lovely screen shot of my convoy racing to the foot of Hill 144 I am met with tragedy. Of all the vehicles that could be destroyed the one that would hurt the most is the one that get destroyed. My 2 ½ ton truck is hit by a deadly round instantly killing nearly half of the Pioneers it is carrying. Full size The rest of the convoy somehow makes it to the base of the hill intact. I still can’t believe that the only vehicle hit is that truck. The field grass and flowers of the field are very high and the truck is the tallest vehicle that I had passing though. That lack of concealment is what must have saved the others and doomed my Pioneers. Full size The celebrating on Hill 154 also did last long. Throughout the regrouping the German have been conducting little hit and run missions against my infantry in the very thick woods. The combination of the trees and thick underbrush has made the Germans nearly invisible until it is too late. Here a soldier joins the choir invisible and is sent there by a nearly invisible enemy. This screen shot is taken from the location of the shooter. Do you see it? Neither do I but I did see the flash come from this spot. And he certainly saw my guy. Full size My surviving Sherman on 154 moves slightly forward to try to get a clear LOS to the Villa. What is left of my MG team that received fire from the foxhole moves across the bare field to try to get an LOS to the Villa as well. It is a risky move but there is no good LOS where it is so I have to try it. While the Sherman moves into position it spots a German forward observer behind a wall among some trees. With a clear line of fire I am able to pound it with the tanks 75mm HE. Full size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 On Hill 144 I move my Sherman forward to try to get a look at the Villa from the hillside. As I arrive what I have been trying to get the entire battle is now laid out in front of me. Not only do I have a good look at the Villa but I also have targets!!!!! 3 machine gun teams and Panzerschreck team and a firing position to reach almost the entire Villa. Full size The machine gun teams fire on my Sherman. Full size The Sherman returns fire with all guns. Full size In the center a ragtag squad see the same thing as the Sherman and fire a bazooka round into the first building of the complex. (TUBE GUY!) Full size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Back on Hill 155 I decide to move in tight through the woods and see if I can catch the AT gun off guard and unable to turn on me before I can knock it out. I plot my screening infantry to move along the tree line to protect my flank from any infantry in the woods. But their morale is so bad right now that the only thing that moves along the woods is the Sherman. As I watch the turn unfold I am helpless to stop the Shermans advance. And what happens next is my worst fear. A Panzerscherk connects!! I am fortunate that it hit my tracks and does not disable the tank. Full size While the schreck team scrambles to reload I am able to get a round off at point blank range. I won’t need to worry about him anymore. But still I have to get out of these damned woods before one of his buddies comes along. Full size On Hill 144 I am able to move a 30cal MG team into position to see into the Villa. Full size In the Villa there is a lot of movement. This may have been going on for a while but now I can see it. And I can see where they are going. Full size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 WOW! I am pretty surprised your sherman spotted all those Germans in town! How did he do that? or did he see them after they fired? Seems like they would have been hidden in those buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 WOW! I am pretty surprised your sherman spotted all those Germans in town! How did he do that? or did he see them after they fired? Seems like they would have been hidden in those buildings. The screen shot is the "global view" and it may not have been entirely the Sherman, although that is the way I remember it. They were making no effort to hide at that point. The 2 nearest the Sherman were firing. The schreck team behind the wall was not hiding and I was above it helping with sighting it. The MG team in the building closest to my center front may not have been in the Shermans LOS but was in the LOS of other units, like the one firing the bazooka at the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Elvis, CMSF. Steve, please correct me if I am wrong, but the basics of the infantry are the same in both games. Correct. The basic mechanics are identical for CM:SF, CM:A, and CM:BN. The differences that are readily apparent when you play each, especially CM:BN, comes from all the various "natural" differences. Elvis listed quite a lot of them so I won't restate them here other than to say there's more differences between the two settings than there are similarities when it comes to battlefield details. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I posted this in Elvis' AAR thread because some similar questions came up. Figured I should repost here: I want to draw some attention to this shot in particular: Full size As a reminder to you CM v1.06 and later CM:SF/CM:A players, and something for you non-CM:SF/CM:A guys, there's a lot of infantry detail going on in this shot that wasn't possible in CMx1. Here are two that struck me: 1. Look at the detailed terrain and think about what this means in terms of unit position. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, check out the guy furthest to the left. He is exposed to fire from places (i.e. off to his left) that the other three guys to the right are not. In CMx1 your whole unit was either exposed to fire or safe from fire from any one specific direction. This means the guy on the left could be hit from some enemy that would have ZERO chance of hitting the other 3 guys. 2. Height of a soldier matters in CMx2, it didn't matter in CMx1 because there was no concept of variable height. Everything was at the same height, all the time, every time. Not so with CMx2 since v1.06 (IIRC). Those soldiers are kneeling in tall grass. If they were to drop prone they would disappear from view from most angles. But not necessarily that hill off to the right. Hard to tell if there is good LOS there or not from just this screenshot. Regardless, the point is that concealment (in this case cover isn't a significant factor) changes depending on what the INDIVIDUAL soldiers are doing. If 3 drop down on their bellies, and 1 continues to kneel, then 1 remains potentially visible to the enemy. What an enemy can't see they can't shoot at (well, except with blind Area Fire, of course) with small arms fire. This means, again, that exposure to observation is similar to exposure to fire... it's individual. For you guys who haven't played a lot of CM:SF/CM:A... a word of warning. If you decide to go and play someone who has had a lot of experience with the new engine, you might want to set low expectations for your chances of victory. No disrespect intended... just say'n Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 WOW! I am pretty surprised your sherman spotted all those Germans in town! How did he do that? or did he see them after they fired? Seems like they would have been hidden in those buildings. Yeah, looks like those Sherman has still some nasty Shock Force optics inside... I think even if the infantry is not "hiding" they should not be so easy to spot from a tank...ok, it looks like the tank commander was watching from a open hatch...but still... The machine gun teams fire on my Sherman. Is this the TacAI ? I mean why should a german mg team in a more or less great ambush position open fire on a enemy tank (even if the commander looks through the open hatch) ? It gives away his position and one or two HE rounds from the Sherman and the MG team is gone. Hard to believe that this is what a "real" MG team would do in this situation.... And for the panzerschreck guy, it looks like there is still no elevation limit for the main gun of the tank. How far was that panzerschreck away ? Anyway, the panzerschreck guy was damn close, i would say danger close...looks like he had no fear to blow himselfe up too (those brave germans ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Wiggum, the Sherman is pretty close to the Villa. Its about 250 yrds away. Jon would be able to tell you if it was the AI that opened fire or if he ordered it. There are other units moving in the area the Sherman is set up in. For instance the 30cal is right next to it. If Jon didn't order a hide command I would epect the guns to fire at that range. I also don’t know their condition. A lot of arty came down in that area. They might in such bad condition that they would fire at their a Mothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Elvis: thank you for this entertaining DAR. I have been looking forward to it after work each day and the time you put into it is appreciated. Also, I had half a mind to keep myself going with Shock Force until my preferred theatre of East Front; but both your DARs have really got me excited about Normandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I would think that all the Sherman gunner had to do is point in the general direction and let the muzzle blast do the rest; their were numerous posts on the CMSF board about the inadvisability of being anywhere near an MBT's main gun when it fired. On another wargames board, whilst discussing the Ferdinands vulnerabilty to close assault, someone dug up AAR reports, from the battle of Kursk. The commander of a Ferdinand platoon said that just firing the 88L71, when engaging distant targets, was enough to dissuade most infantry teams from closing in. As for the Shermans situational awareness, could it be because the TC is in an elevated position, 9+ft above the ground must afford some spotting advantages, and of course the obvious disadvantages of being such a high profile object! With the new engine, does a vehicle afford any cover to infantry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Full size Just noticed something!!!!! Do you see it? Look harder. * * * * * * Don't see it yet? * * * * * * * * T-junction walls!!!!!!!!!!!! :) Guys, I may sound batsh*t crazy to you, but I just spent 3 years building at least a thousand urban housing compounds in downtown Ramadi, and making do with those funky diagonal intersections when I needed a 3-way junction. OK, I am batsh*t crazy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I see an outhouse upper left. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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