1.08 Bugs

[Exel]

Condition: WeGo, PBEM, QB, 1.08

* Units keep ignoring pause commands, both at their starting position and at waypoints. Some times they do pause as ordered, most of the time they don't. Happens with any unit and any force.

* Javelins disappear from Bradleys. Engineer units loaded up to Bradleys can acquire Javelins normally during the command phase, but when the replay starts the Javelins have vanished from both the squad and the vehicle, never to be seen again. Same happens with AT4s.

* Bradleys often take several shots to kill with Abrams. Likewise both Abrams and Bradley often withstand several top-attack Javelins with little or no damage. Something not right here.

[Peter Panzer]

BFC:

Keep up the steady work - this title still has plenty of ground to cover.

Please consider givng the lingering problems surrounding WEGO turn replay an extra dose of attention during the next revision. Best of luck.

All of the conditions below occur in v1.08 WEGO (hotseat)

WEGO Turn Replay

Infantry movement playback - some soldier models will freeze in position and slide across the map to their assigned waypoint

M1114 chassis will sometimes rapidly bounce vertically during "slow" movement. This is occasionally accompanied by "choppy" engine sound effects and stuttering movement animation (Saved File Available)

M1114 model warped 10 meters right leaving the crew suspended in mid-air. (Saved File Available)

Allow 3-D objects to "reset:" blast craters, building/structural damage, foliage damage, missles in launch tubes (TOW). Note: nonbuilding/structural walls reset as of 1.08, but associated post-blast rubble does not

Infantry small arms sometimes disappear when units are embarking.

Gameplay Suggestions:

Permit "Face" commands to be issued to dismounting troops

Allow AFV's to better prioritize threats (e.g. M2A3 engaging BMP-2 at length while also in contact with two T-62's. Note: REDFOR AFV's were at similar ranges).

Allow waypoint positions to be adjusted (drag and drop)

Allow cover arcs to extend off of the map

Permit M1114 passengers to re-man the MG if the original gunner is KIA (already possible, but inconsistent?)

M707 recon vehicles cannot be made to focus on a sector via a target arc in the same manner OPFOR spies and M1127's can

Allow indirect fire weapons to lay smoke

Effects:

Add aircraft flyover sound effects when CAS is in play

Scenario Editor Suggestions:

Add small images of flavor objects to the selection menu in place of the current numbers

Add the ability for the AI to utilize artillery and CAS during the fight when executing a plan (AI menu)

Add the ability to pre-attrit units in the "Purchase Blue/Red" screen

[dima]

Hi Peter!

Thanks for your feedback!

I am on a beta-test team. Can you email me the savegames demonstrating the problems and I will bring these issues up directly to developers.

My email is 'dimastep at gmail dot com"

Guys, for anyone else that thinks you've found a bug, if you can make a savegame and send it to myself, I'll make sure it will be looked at

[z1812]

Hi all,

MultiPlayer TCP is still very unstable. I cannot supply a saved game because the option is not available for online play.

I have tried a few games with a regular connection and some with hamachi.

Only 1 good connection so far. Otherwise very poor.

Regards John

[Secondbrooks]

Is it 1.08 or what. but:

-CMSF crashes when mission introdces IED's, mines and maybe even UAZs. I click something and *CRASH!*

-My ATI x800 is having problems and VPU recoverer shuts down my card frequently. Also my computer freezes some times. This i can be imaging but when aquiring eqipment for my men from vehicle (BMP) this happens alot ... But i just formated my hard drive and problem might come from there, so just letting know.

[Peter Panzer]

Hello Dima:

I appreciate your eagerness to help. The files were e.mailed as requested.

Note: apparently I saved the first file relating to the M1114 vertical hitch at the wrong point. This error is easy to reproduce and is likely not limited to the M1114 model.

I recreated the bug in a second file and saved it correctly, however you will not see the manner in which this error sometimes coincides with a sound distortion ("choppiness") and increased visual stuttering in this sample.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

[handihoc]

I've just seen an interesting visual bug that I never spotted before. An assault squad with javelins was ordered to take out a T72. The Javelin guy let off his first missile, destroyed the enemy tank no problem. His launcher then vanished and was replaced by small arm (M4A1, I guess), even though he still had a javelin missle left.

Next, he took aim with his M4A1 and, miracle! out of this came his second javelin, which flew straight to the original target and took out the remaining crew! Fabulous!

It's a very minor issue in the overall scheme of things, but quite odd to observe. This was in V1.07. I haven't installed V1.08 yet as I'm completing the Narwick campaign (the javelin incident occurred in the last mission), and don't want to lose it due to incompatibility.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Handihoc, I've seen that happen on replays, but never on the original turn. Were you watching a replay when that happened?

[Watson & Crick]

There is either a bug with Syrian anti-tank missiles or a bug with the AI's use and/or targeting. The Syrians expended all missiles and nary a one reached its target. All missiles (6 or more?) exploded on the ground midway to target. This occurred in the Thunder campaign on the 3rd or 4th battle. The map has a single road running down the middle. You start at one and need to secure the far end.

SPOILER

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My Humvees were the target. They sat in hull down positions near the back right edge on a hill rise and the small rise on the left midway down the map. Basically, when the tanks showed up, the Syrians had nothing left. Makes the scenario a piece of cake. I have a hard time believing this would happen in real life. Either the Syrians should wait for a non hull down target or at least some of the missiles should hit. Sumfink is amiss. Literally. No, I do not have a saved game but this can easily be tested.

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Peter Panzer:

Allow AFV's to better prioritize threats (e.g. M2A3 engaging BMP-2 at length while also in contact with two T-62's. Note: REDFOR AFV's were at similar ranges).

OK, but what was the range?

If its 1,500m plus for all three the BMP-2 is probably a bigger threat due it its AT-5 than the T-62 or was it an up close engagement?

[Peter Panzer]

Handihoc & Ryan:

I have yet to test extensively, but the Javelin depiction you mention may have been cleared up in 1.08.

This is one of several "objects not resetting in WEGO playback" issues I have been reporting since 1.04.

As a dedicated WEGO (hotseat) player, these anomalies take the luster off of what is otherwise a rather well crafted visual environment.

I understand there are numerous fixes in order and they must be prioritized, but WEGO playback needs some polish. Let's hope 1.09 is the best time/place for the folks actually implementing the code revisions - it has been a long wait.

Finally, here is some information from Steve (BFC) regarding this type of issue posted on 2.26.08:

Visual glitches suck. We know that, you know that. But on the scale of things they aren't as important as, for example, screwy pathing, odd LOS results, etc. So they aren't at the bottom of our priority list, but they aren't at the top. Having said that, if you look back at all the patch lists you'll see quite a number of graphics glitches fixed and not a small number of them playback related. There are a few more out there that we are aware of, so hopefully we'll get those fixed as well. It's not a matter of if we can fix them it is when we have the time to fix them.

To answer a question that hasn't been asked before:

"Why are there playback graphics glitches?"

The reason is that in an attempt to keep the file/RAM footprint as small as possible Charles has been storing things in on an "as needed basis" instead of a "everything including the kitchen sink" method. Unfortunately, some things that should be in there were overlooked and therefore need to be hand coded in. Overall this is better because you guys get the smallest impact possible, though there are a few things that visually don't reset correctly when doing repeated playbacks.

Steve

Gibson:

Range: approximately 320 meters (+/- 20m per AFV).

Understood regarding the ATGM threat. Even at 320m, the BMP crew could touch off an AT-5.

One could argue at that range all AFV primary weapons are a significant threat, but I was somewhat surprised not to see the crew transition to the T-62's. Perhaps this is a 1942 AFV mentality creeping in from my CMAK days.

Nevertheless, does one opt for a pattern of 30mm holes and a chance to survive, a 119mm hole with corresponding blast/overpreassure or a covey of 115mm tank rounds - pick your flavor of suck.

Coding these permutations must be a real hoot.

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Peter Panzer:

Gibson:

Range: approximately 320 meters (+/- 20m per AFV).

Understood regarding the ATGM threat. Even at 320m, the BMP crew could touch off an AT-5.

One could argue at that range all AFV primary weapons are a significant threat, but I was somewhat surprised not to see the crew transition to the T-62's. Perhaps this is a 1942 AFV mentality creeping in from my CMAK days.

Nevertheless, does one opt for a pattern of 30mm holes and a chance to survive, a 119mm hole with corresponding blast/overpreassure or a covey of 115mm tank rounds - pick your flavor of suck.

Coding these permutations must be a real hoot.

Did the Bradley still have TOW on board or only 25mm?

Perhaps it was a case of “at least I can kill the BMP-2 if I hit it, whereas I’ll only upset the T-62’s”.

I agree on the “reset” issue in WEGO [its all I play too] but over time (as per the release notes) more and more of these things are being fixed.

For example in the 1.08 notes:

“* Walls are visually destroyed correctly in playback.“

[Peter Panzer]

Gibson:

Thanks for the quick reply and sticking in there for the WEGO guys.

The M2 still had a TOW, however it was on the move across open terrain. I do not want to imply too much from one instance, but it will be something I watch for in the future.

I agree on the “reset” issue in WEGO [its all I play too] but over time (as per the release notes) more and more of these things are being fixed.

No question. If I wasn't a patient guy with continued hopes for this title I would have bailed out in a flurry of invectives months ago. To this point, CMSF has been the hardbodied prick tease of tactical games.

For example in the 1.08 notes:

“* Walls are visually destroyed correctly in playback.“

A good step in the right direction - keep up the momentum.

Here is what I listed above:

Note: nonbuilding/structural walls reset as of 1.08, but associated post-blast rubble does not

Thanks again for all of your time and effort on behalf of the community.

[Peter Panzer]

Double tap, sorry.

[SgtMuhammed]

If a Bradley is moving it can't fire the TOW.

[M1A1TC]

Bug?

My squad seems to "split" by itself without a command. I usually get a 3 man team moving upfront, with the rest of the platoon moving a little behind. Is this a new feature or a bug?

Bug?

After I blast out the majority of the 1st floor walls, I expect the building to collapse, yet it stands. Feature or a bug?

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Peter Panzer:

Gibson:

Thanks for the quick reply and sticking in there for the WEGO guys.

The M2 still had a TOW, however it was on the move across open terrain. I do not want to imply too much from one instance, but it will be something I watch for in the future.

Well there you go then. TOW can only be fired while static so if the Bradley is moving only the 25mm would be available and I guess the Tac AI decided to focus on a target it could hit / kill instead of ones it couldn’t.

If you want to use TOW, you must be static or at best “hunt” and be prepared for a lull as the vehicle stops and then engages (hopefully the time of flight is less than the responding fire ).

The reason why you can fire TOW of the move? Well its pretty hard when you have guidance wires running between the flying missile and a moving Bradley (they’d tend to break)

Have a read of my Armour Attacks! AAR for a bit more detail if you like.

[ April 06, 2008, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: gibsonm ]

[handihoc]

Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

Handihoc, I've seen that happen on replays, but never on the original turn. Were you watching a replay when that happened?

Umm, I'm not sure. It was WEGO, certainly. I had thought I saw it on the original turn, but now I think about it, it may have been during a replay. Can't quite recall accurately as it's a big battle and I was replaying repeatedly to catch various bits of action.

Damn good battle though!

[handihoc]

Originally posted by Watson & Crick:

There is either a bug with Syrian anti-tank missiles or a bug with the AI's use and/or targeting. The Syrians expended all missiles and nary a one reached its target. All missiles (6 or more?) exploded on the ground midway to target. This occurred in the Thunder campaign on the 3rd or 4th battle. The map has a single road running down the middle. You start at one and need to secure the far end.

I reported that one some months ago, in V1.04 or 1.05, I think. I got the impression the Syrians were firing off rpgs at targets way beyond their range, but was never able to confirm that as I couldn't identify the weapons they were actually using. The bug was still there in the following update. Haven't replayed recently, but I'm surprised to see it still applies. ARe you playing V1.08?

[Flanker15]

I'd like to suggest a new order, Hunt from CMx1.

Right now they stop whenever they detect anything and then you must give them another order.

I'd prefer if the unit continues to move if it can't effectively engage the detected unit or if it loses or destroys the contact.

Then change the current Hunt to "Move to contact".

[M1A1TC]

I would suggest a new infantry behavior in MOUT situations. If I order a squad down a road between buildings, I want the AI to keep the soldiers to the sides of the road. OUT OF THE DAMN CENTER! PLEASE!

[MikeyD]

"Permit "Face" commands to be issued to dismounting troops"

Isn't that the "G" keyboard command already? That's how I position my troops inside of buildings to face the correct windows.

"The Syrians expended all missiles and nary a one reached its target."

Which missile was it? AT-3 is a piece of crap in real life and was designed to be so in-game too. 20% success rate would be generous estimate for the thing. Still, I have seen them work.

[ April 07, 2008, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[thewood]

Stupid question...if the AT3 is such a piece of crap IRL, how did it get used so effectively against Isreal in '73?

[MikeyD]

I recall '73 war anecdotes about Pattons returning to laager after an engagement with AT-3 guidance wires draped over it like tinsel off a Xmas tree. I may be wrong about that 80% failure rate, it may have actually been WORSE! But you've got to consider 1-2 out of 10 AT-3s finding their mark during a battle would still mean a VERY bad day for the Israelis.

[thewood]

I wonder if there any stats on hit rates in the 73 war. I also remember reading that the AT3s were pretty dense and maybe percentages just paid off.