Nabla Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Originally posted by StoneAge: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />First, as the tournament manual states, only section winners go into the finals. Holien: it is not fair to compare the results of players in different sections against each other, since they have played against different people - comparisons are only fair inside each section. In fact, the output of the scoring system could be improved so that it would output each section separately; currently it only gives one single big list (which is a bit misleading, I agree). Yes that is what the manual states for this ROW3 but what about ROW4 As I see the nabla system, you are scored against all 36 times a scenario is played. Not just the 3 times your group played it. so why not wild cards for next three highest ie The_Capt 0.52 Heavy_Drop 0.42 Jon_L 0.41 They have a higher final score than 4 of the finalists </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Interesting stuff these stats. If you look at the following one thing is very interesting.. Section 1-1 Juha_Ahoniemi 0.17 Bimmer 0.16 Enoch 0.01 Tabpub -0.08 (+.081)=.001 Spanish Bombs -0.18 (+.162)= -0.018 Combined Arms -0.12 If Bimmer had simply submitted 1 AAR he would have actually won for his group. Furthermore, if the 3rd placegetter Enoch had submitted all 5 AAR's he would have actually pulled himself up from 3rd place to win his group with an overall score of 0.172. I wonder if Bimmer and Enoch are kicking themselves right now? As for lack of AAR's it is a bit disappointing and I'm guilty of that myself with only 2 of them submitted in time. Rest assured Kingfish you will receive my AAR on King of Debrecen hopefully tonight while I'll also do a very brief one on The Christmas battle but I believe my comments in the seperate BBS on this one probably covers the main points I wanted to make on that scenario. For some reason I can never motivate myself to write AAR's for a game where there were multiple opponents as occured with The Beast since it doesn't seem right when one possibly scores an unjust result due to the subsequent players who have taken over not knowing what has transpired beforehand. Rest assured, my overall view is that The Beast was an excellent scenario if a bit tough for the Germans and if ever a side needed some bonus points it was in this particular game rather than the easier to defend scenario of Hosszupalyi. Just look at the bare weight of numbers and I would have thought that 10 T34/85's plus a virtually impenetrable "Beast" plus an AT gun plus a significantly stronger and better armed infantry force against a weakened and significantly smaller (and poorer quality) infantry force, all of 2 Panthers and 3 AT guns would qualify the German side for the bonus points when compared with "Hoss". The only way this scenario tips in the defenders balance IMO is if it was played under ver. 1.02 where those AT guns could be placed in defilade positions behind small ridges or gullies near the river and become virtually impossible to hit. Unfortunately mine died very quickly despite being in such positions as soon as they exposed themselves when each gun took down a T34/85. Anyway, all games were fun in their own way and my heartfelt thanks to Treeburst, Kingfish and Nabla plus the Boots & Tracks team for all the scenarios to ensure the tournament went ahead. Regards Jim R. [ May 28, 2003, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: Kanonier Reichmann ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Carrot Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Since I have just got the OK to release the AAR's here is the link to mine. I do ask that you don't laugh too hard. I may make one or two changes as time permits but the text is intact. Cpl Carrot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Nabla thanks for that clear explanation and it now makes sense. You should be a teacher. H P.s. Cpl your AAR's are good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsonian Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 H, And after re-reading my post, I apologize for my unintended tone as well... it sounded so much more reasonable and less harsh in my head! I meant my comments a little more tongue in cheek. I certainly don't think you were tooting your own horn. I've appreciated your sense of humor this whole tourney. Insomnia seems to be striking us all. W 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Congratulations to all section winners, especially JPS from my section. I enjoyed this experience very much, and look forward to doing it again in the future. As far as AARs are concerned, I started with good intentions, and had three in progress as the tournament was going along. Unfortunately a combination of laziness and RL issues caused me not to finish them. I found all the scenarios fun and challenging, even when I was getting my ass kicked (especially by WadePM in "The Beast"). That was my personal favorite, and my grand plans for demolishing the German force, crumbled quickly in the face of WadePM's excellent defensive tactics. Thanks Kingfish, Nabla and Treeburst (where is he?) for putting this all together. Good luck to all participants in the finals. [ May 28, 2003, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Originally posted by Cpl Carrot: Since I have just got the OK to release the AAR's here is the link to mine. I do ask that you don't laugh too hard. I may make one or two changes as time permits but the text is intact. Cpl Carrot Excellent AARs. my compliments on your hard work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtabell Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I think your solution to the dropouts is perfect and simple. SgtAbell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabla Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Kanonier Reichmann: I think the size of the AAR reward should be different for different sections. Perhaps this can be discussed before the start of the next RoW tournament. Holien: Those who can't play teach scoring. Cpl Carrot: Very nice AARs. Sgt Abell: After watching TB shed blood, sweat and tears over earlier dropouts, I am very happy that we've come up with a reasonable solution to the problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Interesting stuff these stats. If you look at the following one thing is very interesting.. Section 1-1 Juha_Ahoniemi 0.17 Bimmer 0.16 Enoch 0.01 Tabpub -0.08 (+.081)=.001 Spanish Bombs -0.18 (+.162)= -0.018 Combined Arms -0.12 If Bimmer had simply submitted 1 AAR he would have actually won for his group. Furthermore, if the 3rd placegetter Enoch had submitted all 5 AAR's he would have actually pulled himself up from 3rd place to win his group with an overall score of 0.172. I wonder if Bimmer and Enoch are kicking themselves right now? And if I'd done my AARs, I would have pulled into 3rd place. Actually, I submitted three last night, but apparently just too late to make the deadline. This group was so close (everyone lost at least two, which means nobody won more than three) that the AARs were--or could have been--critical. Compare the Holien-KR group, where there's a huge gap between the top and the bottom. BTW, I think Juha's new sig, "Spank the Yanks" is quite an overstatement. "Squeek narrowly past the Yanks" seems more like it. And since I managed a min vic vs. Juha in my own game against him, I guess I could adopt the sig "Stamp the champ". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Hi Combined Arms, I was wondering over the close nature of your scores and I think it does back up the view that you were all very closely matched. After reading Nabla's comments on scoring I can see that perhaps one of your players (or all of them) would be ranked higher than what it appears from looking at those Nabla ratings. I guess you have all learnt hard lessons from Mr Wreck... I wonder if he ever cruises around here anymore? H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Bombs Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Originally posted by Holien: Hi Combined Arms, I was wondering over the close nature of your scores and I think it does back up the view that you were all very closely matched. H Yes, you can say that last place was just as good as first in that group. At least, that is what I'm telling myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadepm Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Nidan1, thanks for the kind words. That scenario was one of my favorites too, very tense. I was/am looking forward to seeing your AAR. Maybe I can add the view from the "otherside" in italics or something. Let me know. I also have a place where you can post it too now, if your looking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Well played to JPS in my section. Good luck in the next phase; you are going to be up against some hard bastiches. One of them, goes by the name of Holien, I believe, is meaner than a pit of rattlers ( nice one H, will be in touch soon re your upcoming invasion and THE weekend) I thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience; my first tourney. All of the games were hard fought, my opponents able and determined players. Hpoefully there will be another. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Ahhh Mr Crowley, Please stop talking me up, I fear you will dissappoint people. I am but a small minow compared to you. As for the weekend, funny I was just consulting the ringmaster and all is in hand. He is showing me the finer arts of attacking across a blank canvass. (One of Mr D's something dies 10 times. ) I am looking forward to next week when the stag posse get to do Normandy for a long weekend. Pity you are on a training course. BTW if you have a portable PC, or will travel with yours that would be very useful that weekend. H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Interesting stuff these stats. If you look at the following one thing is very interesting.. Section 1-1 Juha_Ahoniemi 0.17 Bimmer 0.16 Enoch 0.01 Tabpub -0.08 (+.081)=.001 Spanish Bombs -0.18 (+.162)= -0.018 Combined Arms -0.12 If Bimmer had simply submitted 1 AAR he would have actually won for his group. Furthermore, if the 3rd placegetter Enoch had submitted all 5 AAR's he would have actually pulled himself up from 3rd place to win his group with an overall score of 0.172. I wonder if Bimmer and Enoch are kicking themselves right now? Way back on ROW I, I wrote all of my AARs as I was doing the battle and finished them when I finished the battle. This time around I took some notes but blew off writing the AARS saying I would do it later. Later became I can't really remember enough detail to write a decent AAR. I do wish now I had written all 5, but I am happy to see the best player move on to the finals. We were a pretty evenly matched group I think. In two battles I scored above the median in two battles I scored below the median and in one battle Spanish Bombs and I scored exactly at the median. I do beleive that I have to have one of the highest variances in scores between battles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabpub Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by Enoch: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Interesting stuff these stats. If you look at the following one thing is very interesting.. Section 1-1 Juha_Ahoniemi 0.17 Bimmer 0.16 Enoch 0.01 Tabpub -0.08 (+.081)=.001 Spanish Bombs -0.18 (+.162)= -0.018 Combined Arms -0.12 If Bimmer had simply submitted 1 AAR he would have actually won for his group. Furthermore, if the 3rd placegetter Enoch had submitted all 5 AAR's he would have actually pulled himself up from 3rd place to win his group with an overall score of 0.172. I wonder if Bimmer and Enoch are kicking themselves right now? Way back on ROW I, I wrote all of my AARs as I was doing the battle and finished them when I finished the battle. This time around I took some notes but blew off writing the AARS saying I would do it later. Later became I can't really remember enough detail to write a decent AAR. I do wish now I had written all 5, but I am happy to see the best player move on to the finals. We were a pretty evenly matched group I think. In two battles I scored above the median in two battles I scored below the median and in one battle Spanish Bombs and I scored exactly at the median. I do beleive that I have to have one of the highest variances in scores between battles. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Thank you for all the gentlemen in my section; hope we meet again in the next RoW! Although I have shown bad example with regard to AARs (made notes during all games; and then real life kicked in), I would nevertheless urge everyone to provide at least some feedback to tournament organizers and scenario designers in the RoW BBS. Moreover, perhaps the scenario designers could write (more) short "designer notes" about the aspects they tried to achieve in their scenarios? As already discussed in the BBS, some players have had rather contradictory feelings about many scenarios, and it would be interesting to know if that has been by designer's purpose or as a very interesting side-effect of other things. Br, Jukka-Pekka 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Ahoniemi Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Ok, a few words to You guys in "support group" (=the Wrecked). I already had my fun with that sig so I let it to You to invent a good nickname to our section. I have to thank You for good games and all kind of emotions from pure joy to ultimate sorrow during our battles. You, my dear Yankee opponents proved again and again that some sterotypes about Americans are BS. Let it be known that our section wasn't easy one to go through. I have a healhy respect towards other finalists, but I think nothing surprises me any more. I've been Wrecked and wounded with these commanders and I hope that I can represent our section with honour. Time to find my Finnish "sisu" and give a hell of a figt to Holien, Pacestick and mPisi. Let the final fighs begin. Juha 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 The first scenario of the finals, 'The Petroskov River Bridge' has been sent out to the German players. The Allied players should have already received their briefings. The other two scenarios will be sent out tonight. As soon as I'm done with the finalists I will begin organizing the other players into sections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Juha, How about "Wrecks Survivor's" as a sig? We all survived the wreck, and the close, balanced scoring, and the fact that two ROW II finalists (me and SB--and we were 2-3 in the finals) finished at the bottom of the section, suggests that this is a pretty good group of players. Wreck just was a player in a different dimension. I hear that he's left CM for some other game, so we're survivors in that sense, too. We're all still playing. [ May 29, 2003, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Kingfish, When you get a moment could you let us know what you plan to do about the Forgotten Tournament : the ROW III Overflow ? Some of us are wondering if it's worth finishing our games. PBIman and Ivan_RU have gone MIA completely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Just a quick question since we are now starting new games up. Should we now be using 1.02 or the 1.03 Public Beta Patch? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Just to answer your question Mikeydz...I'm pretty sure Kingfish will say that you should be using ver. 1.02 as the beta patch of 1.03 only works with American sourced copies of CMBB and not the CDV version. Unless all the players in your group have the American version then it may have to be 1.02. This presents other potential problems mind you as there will be the ongoing bug of not being able to hit infantry, MG teams & guns by direct HE fire if they're in a small depression. I'll leave it to Kingfish to decide which way to go on this. My suggestion would be to play it as ver. 1.01 as at least this version didn't have the unhittable gun bug and seemed to work reasonably well in my ROW III games where my AT guns in both The Beast & King of Debrecen were eminantly hittable despite often being in "hull down" positions. Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 Guys, AFAIK, the scenarios were all designed and tested on v1.02. I'll leave it up to you and your opponent to choose which patch to use, but you both must use the same patch. Otherwise you'll end up with two different scores. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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