ROW III - The Boots and Tracks CMBB tourney (Part 4)

[Kingfish]

The Christmas Battle

1-1

Combined Arms 40 - Bimmer 60

Spanish Bombs 46 - Enoch 54

tabpub 69 - Juha Ahoniemi 31

1-2

Holien 18 - Kanonier Riechmann 82

Cpl Carrot 65 - Martyr 35

Bertram 75 - Kingfish 25

1-3

jjelinek 37 - Chris Martino 63

Ted 32 - Pacestick 68

1-4

mPisi 41 - Heavy drop 59

The Capt 58 - Mick OZ 42

2-1

Texas Toast 65 - Cpt T 35

U8Led 24 - Spine Ripper 76

Vadr 29 - Bryce Baker - 71

2-2

Sgt Abell 20 - Jon_L 80

Three-Oh-Eight 36 - Frunze 64

2-3

Matt Green 62 - Endit 38

Mr Spkr 56 - Lord Dragon 44

MikeyDz 71 - a1 steaks 29

2-4

Sgt Gold 44 - Nidan1 56

JPS 69 - WadePM 31

James Crowley 72 - Scheer 28

3-1

Seahawk 22 - Wellsonian 78

Kevin Kolk 65 - Nolloff 35

Cyrano 34 - Sgt CDAT 66

3-2

Lt Bull 57 - SlicerW 43

Major Victory 33 - Mr Byte 67

3-3

Joakim_Ruud 48 - Flammenwerfer 52

Jaws 34 - Dirty Mark 66

Sripe 23 - Shock Trooper 77

3-4

Ryddle 58 - Frenchy 42

[Kingfish]

Rearguard Action

1-1

Bimmer 33 - Juha Ahoniemi 67

Spanish Bombs 44 - Combined arms 56

Tabpub 33 - Enoch 67

1-2

Bertram 13 - Kannonier Reichmann 87

Holien 96 - Cpl Carrot 4

Martyr 41 - Tweety 59

1-3

Pacestick 37 - Chris Martino 63

Thumpre 39 - Ted 61

jjelinek 59 - Gunnersman 41

1-4

Pixelmaster 21 - Heavy Drop 79

The Capt 86 - Fate 14

mPisi 94 - Mick Oz 6

2-1

Texas Toast 51 - Vadr 49

u8led 56 - Capt T 44

Bryce Baker 36 - SpineRipper 64

2-2

Tero 24 - Jon_L 76

Sgt Abell 37 - Frunze 63

2-3

MikeyDz 26 - Lord Dragon 74

Mr Spkr 34 - Matt Green 66

2-4

Nidan1 44 - Scheer 56

JPS 84 - Sgt Gold 16

James Crowley 15 - Wade PM 85

3-1

Nolloff 55 - Sgt CDAT 45

Cyrano 38 - Wellsonian 62

3-2

StoneAge 40 - SlicerW 60

Lt Bull 71 - Mr Byte 29

3-3

Flammenwerfer 74 - Dirty Mark 26

Jaws 50 - Shock Trooper 50

Sripe 24 - Joakim Ruud 76

3-4

Superslug 41 - Deadly 88 59

Spacehamster 40 - Frenchy 60

[Overkill]

My game with Alexander Ewert is over. Final score Axis(me) 74 - Allied(Alex) 26. I get a major victory....

[John Kettler]

My AARs singled out as models of how to write an AAR? Quite an honor (wipes errant tear on sleeve and sniffs)! Had some trouble actually locating them, though, so here's the main RoW II AAR thread link (didn't post under individual scenarios). The RoW I AAR, though, is under the scenario name.

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002059

Hats off to my unmet in battle foes, and hail the victors! As for AARs, may I suggest you follow astronaut Wally Schirra's exhortation to the people building NASA's spacecraft: "Do good work!"?

Regards,

John Kettler

[ May 15, 2003, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Deadly 88]

Hey Kingfish...it's 11:35pm in my part of Canada....guess I just made it in under the wire.

I have finally completed my battle:

Christmas Battle Section 3-4

Deadly 88 (AXIS) vs Space Hamster (ALLIED)

TOTAL VICTORY AXIS 87% vs 13%

Thanks

[THumpre]

Man, I suck But I did have a hell of a time

[Spanish Bombs]

This thread should be on page one. Interesting results all around, and while I have a guess who is going to make it out of the Wreck's Bitches reunion tour (certainly not me!), Nabla must be heard from first.

On another point, its been uncharacteristically almost 2 days since I've received a turn from Combined Arms. Hmmmm, somebody feverishly writing AARs?

[Kingfish]

Still awaiting confirmation of jjelinek / Gunnersman's score in Rearguard action. Hopefully I can get that by this afternoon, and have the final scores in Jarmo's inbox by this evening.

With the regular tourney finished I can now announce the scenario designers. They are:

King of Debrecen - Wyatt "wwb" Barnett

The Beast - Craig "Harv" Harvey

Hosszupalyi - Sergio "Kingfish" Castillo

The Christmas battle - Jeff "jwxspoon" Weatherspoon

Rearguard action - Tim "Rune" Orosz

[sgtabell]

Kingfish,

I am asking these questions to help support you with what you are doing, not to give you a hard time.

I may not have seen it, but when is the hard cutoff for AAR's?

In addition, I note you are posting the scores, with out saying who is axis or allies. There are two things about this.

The first is that I reported all my scores and I do not see them posted, are you waiting for reports from both sides before making it official, or will you take one side by the due time and date?

In looking at the averages for rear guard action, the mean for the axis is alot higher than I would believe, meaning the data may not be correct (IMHO). [i think the means should be further apart, however, I may be wrong, also in Christmas Battle also]. I encourage you, to be really clear about who is axis or allies when you are posting.

I encourage you not to rush to get this done because someone is going to be gone who will help you crunch numbers. There are a number of us out here who can help you, and in addition, it will provide you with quality assurance. Nothing will be lost by letting people in the tourney help double check numbers. Take the time you need and delegate. You took over a task to do and picked it up marveously, I would rather see quality at this point, after all we have been playing for months.

I assume NABLA is in Excel, if not, there are some of us out here who can convert the logic into it if needed.

Given the above, when will the AAR's be due?

Please accept this advice and not criticism.

SgtAbell

[Kingfish]

Kingfish,

I am asking these questions to help support you with what you are doing, not to give you a hard time.

No problem. Please feel free to ask me any question at any time. I'll do my best to answer them.

I may not have seen it, but when is the hard cutoff for AAR's?

A good while back I had mentioned May 22nd as the cutoff for AARs. While I have not changed that, I have suggested that we get them in as soon as possible so as to get the winners announced (remember, the Nabla score is without the AAR bonus added in, so the real section winners can't be announced, and the finals started, until I can add the bonuses to the Nabla scores). I have asked that those how are still working on AARs e-mail me so I have an idea of how many more to receive.

In addition, I note you are posting the scores, with out saying who is axis or allies

My apologies for not adding that in. All scores are axis first / allied second. If any one sees any errors please let me know right away.

The first is that I reported all my scores and I do not see them posted, are you waiting for reports from both sides before making it official, or will you take one side by the due time and date?

I've just checked the lists I posted last night, and I see your scores posted in 4 of 5 scenarios, with only King of Debrecen missing (see section 2-2). IIRC, you told me you never got KOD finished (can't remember why at the moment). If this is not the case please let me know asap.

In looking at the averages for rear guard action, the mean for the axis is alot higher than I would believe, meaning the data may not be correct (IMHO). [i think the means should be further apart, however, I may be wrong, also in Christmas Battle also]. I encourage you, to be really clear about who is axis or allies when you are posting.

Are you looking at the averages posted on the ROW BBS? If so, those averages were computed on Windows Excel. I'll have a look at them again when I get home tonight, but I'm pretty sure they are correct. Also, as with the scores listed here, the axis played is always listed first. Those two lists originate from a single excel spreadsheet that I use to record the scores, and I simply cut & paste the data directly into either BBS, so there shouldn't be any mixing up of sides / scores. What data do you think is incorrect?

I encourage you not to rush to get this done because someone is going to be gone who will help you crunch numbers. There are a number of us out here who can help you, and in addition, it will provide you with quality assurance. Nothing will be lost by letting people in the tourney help double check numbers. Take the time you need and delegate. You took over a task to do and picked it up marveously, I would rather see quality at this point, after all we have been playing for months.

Thank you for the support, and offer to help. To be honest, I don't see myself rushing. With the exception of one score confirmation, everything else has already been turned in. All I'm doing now is sending the scores to someone else to compute. Sure, I could send it a few days later at a more leisurely pace, but I won't gain anything from waiting. I have already stated that I cannot accept anymore scores.

BTW, I appreciate, and encourage, others to crunch the numbers to verify that we ll get the same results. I am all for that. However, keep in mind that getting the Nabla score requires a seperate DOS-based program created by Jarmo Hurri. That program was not given to me when Treeburst left, and I didn't know it was required unitl a week ago. It was because of this that I chose to ask Jarmo to crunch the numbers for us. I have since been given the link to download the program, and anyone who is willing to help me out can e-mail me for that link. I would greatly appreciate having an extra set of eyes checking the final scores.

Please refer to this link for an explanation of how Nabla works:

Nabla scoring system

Again, thanks for the support and offer to help.

Sergio

[sgtabell]

LOL,

Sorry for my temporary blindness,,,you got all the scores, thanks. <--slaps self in the head.

As for my comment about data being a bit off, I just thought everyone on the axis side would have had a bitch of time, and lost by a larger amount. However, that is my narrow view, especially after I went back and looked at how people did with the Christmas scenario. My post on the bbs explains that I spread my defenses based on the fact that I was not clear where the attack and reinforcement came from. Either some people paid up their psychic friends network membership, got lucky, can read more than I can.

Glad it's all working and thanks for the clarifications!

SgtAbell

[Holien]

Sgt don't feel too bad you were not the only one...

H

[Kingfish]

Here's the list of AARs so far submitted:

King of Debrecen

Nolloff

Texas Toast

Holien

Wellsonian

mPisi

The Capt

Ted

Frunze

Seahawk

Cpl Carrot

Vadr

Heavy Drop

Shock Trooper

Spanish Bombs

The Beast

Wellsonian

Spanish Bombs

mPisi

Nolloff

Frunze

Heavy Drop

Texas Toast

Shock Trooper

Holien

Lt Bull

Cpl Carrot

Hosszupalyi

Nolloff

Wellsonian

mPisi

The Capt

Kanonier Reichmann

Texas Toast

Frunze

Shock Trooper

Heavy Drop

Holien

Spanish Bombs

Cpl Carrot

The Christmas Battle

Spanish Bombs

Frunze

Holien

Shock Trooper

Heavy Drop

Texas Toast

The Capt

Lt Bull

Cpl Carrot

Anthony Hudson

Rearguard action

Spanish Bombs

mPisi

Nolloff

Frunze

Holien

The Capt

Ted

Heavy Drop

Shock Trooper

Texas Toast

Vadr

Cpl Carrot

In addition there are 2 others which I have no idea whom they belong to. Both are for the Beast, one of which is written in WPD (which I cannot open BTW). The other was written by someone who played the Russians, and makes mention of the game auto-surrendering on turn 19. It is a short AAR, about 4-5 paragraphs in size.

[Ted]

That's probably mine.

[ May 18, 2003, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Ted ]

[Kingfish]

Ted,

I just tried sending it to you to see if it's yours, but the e-mail bounced. E-mail me and I'll respond back with AAR attached.

BTW, you may want to edit your last post, as it mentions certain units in the scenario.

[Nabla]

Hello everyone!

I have the score files, sent to me by Kingfish, and I will process them this evening when I get back home. I will post the results here and also send them via email to Kingfish.

[Kingfish]

Guys,

In an effort to generate more discussions on the scenarios, as well as maintain FOW for the Overflow, I would like to make the ROW BBS availible for all members of the regular tourney. Instructions on how to join on posted on the first page of this thread. If at all possible, please use the same username as what you have on this board. Otherwise you'll need to e-mail me first to let me know what name you've chosen.

[Nabla]

Hi again,

We seem to have some inconsistencies in the scores regarding the number of battles that have taken place in different scenarios. I will contact Kingfish via email, but it may take a while before we can sort this out.

[Holien]

Hi Nabla, certain players did not finish all games in the groups and so there will be such mismatches.

Mr Dorosh look what you have done....

H

[Nabla]

We're working on the problem.

In the long run it is a very good thing that the system will be augmented so that it can handle dropouts. But this takes a bit of additional programming to do, so you will just have to wait for a while.

Go out and enjoy the spring!

[Kingfish]

OK, time to bring everyone up to speed on whats going on, and why the holdup.

The problem we have at the moment is that, in it's current form, the Nabla system requires all the games to be finished for it to crunch the numbers. Although we came very close to doing that, we didn't complete all of them.

Therefore, it is up to me to 'fill in the blanks' so to speak. This will require me to go back and check on what games were not completed, ask the players to send me the latest file, and determine who would have been the likely winner, loser or if it would have ended in a tie.

Here's the important part. I will not wait too long for people to get back to me with their files. If I do not hear from them in a couple of days I will decide on my own what the outcome is from their games and take it from there.

Those who have unfinished games can help out by sending me the files ahead of time. Please make sure to include who played and what side they had.

That is where we stand at the moment. Although it is not an official deadline extention, it does give some people an extra day or two to see if they can finish it on their own. I would much rather fill in the blank with a score than just a W, L, or T.

Thank you for your patience

[Kanonier Reichmann]

It's no problem with me Kingfish...gives me more time to do my AAR's!

Regards

Jim R.

[StoneAge]

Who would like to join me as a group of three for the finals scenarios.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Holien:

Hi Nabla, certain players did not finish all games in the groups and so there will be such mismatches.

Mr Dorosh look what you have done....

H

Well, having my computer down for an entire month didn't help matters. Funny, I have the final turn file for Christmas Battle on my hard drive - I finished that one! Not sure why I was replaced for it, but oh well. I didn't do too badly, compared to the other scores, knowing now that Axis is always first.

Good luck to all advancing to the finals.

[Nabla]

A couple of clarifications.

First, if you take a look at the the tournament manual (the first post in the first page of this thread), you will find a section titled "DROPOUTS, WITHDRAWALS, and MIAs". The way in which unfinished games are handled is explained there. Basically it says that whoever is the cause of the game not being finished will be the loser in that battle, regardless of whether he was winning or not in that game. In fact, determining who was winning or not requires knowledge of the balance of the game, for which you need to compute the median or some similar statistic.

So, the W, L or T tag is not determined by the situation in the battlefield, but by the situation in the email exchange, so to speak. Actually, I think that the W, L, and T tags (invented by me) are a bit misleading, so let me change them on the fly. Let's in fact use only two tags: G and I. Tag G means guilty, I means innocent. Now, a player gets a G if he has caused a game to go unfinished. If both players have been the cause, or it can not be determined who has been the cause, then both players get the G tag. If only one player has been the cause, then the other player gets an I tag. Ok?

Second, in its current form the system can not handle any unfinished games, in any form. What we are doing here is in fact an implementation of a new feature into the system - you'll be the first ones to enjoy this. It has become obvious that every tournament suffers from dropouts and unfinished games, so it is a very good thing that this new feature is implemented.