Frunze Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Interesting to see that Jon L vs yours truly was right on the median for King of Debrecen. At the time, we both thought that the Nabla scoring would favor me. Really, all these scenarios turned out to be pretty balanced, as Nabla says, and Debrecen was slightly Allied-tilted, not Axis-tilted as all those King Tigers made us think. If I edged out Jon L for overall victory in our section, like it appears, I owe it to whoever beat him in The Beast. (Jeb, I think.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon L Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Yes Frunze, it looks like the fight for our section went right down to the wire. I thought I might've closed the gap when your score for Xmas came in, but being 9 points under median for Beast hurt me a lot more than I was expecting. You deserve the title for your solid play in all five scenarios though, and I knew I'd have to play catch up with big wins in Xmas, Rearguard, and Hoss. I got the wins, but ended up just short in the standings. Maybe I'll begin campaigning for adding a wildcard spot in RoW IV. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Ahoniemi Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Ach, the Wreck's bitches reunion tour -section looks like this (Fefore AAR's kicks in):[EDIT]Are the AAR bonuses added already? Nabla wrote these are final results?!?[/EDIT] Juha_Ahoniemi 0.17 Bimmer 0.16 Enoch 0.01 Tabpub -0.08 Combined_Arms -0.12 Spanish_Bombs -0.18 So at the battlefield we can draw this conclusion: Known fact is that one ÜberFinn compares to 10 russkies. Now we can see that one Überfinn compares to 5 decadent Americans! Man, You were so easy At least a moral victory for me, before mr. Spanish Bombs filthy AAR's takes him to finals... [ May 27, 2003, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: Juha Ahoniemi ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Let me be the first to formally congratulate you Holien for your very fine efforts in Section 1/2. A very good result for you with your record of mostly extreme wins putting you in good stead. Well done indeed. The end results appear to be as follows with no amounts of AAR's making any difference to the end winner as H had the foresight to do his AAR's as he went along: Holien .57 Kanonier Reichmann .45 Cpl Carrot .22 Bertram (.28) Martyr (but mostly Tuomas) (.55) Michael Dorosh (.64) I'm sure all of us in our group wish you the best in the 2nd round and hope you win the grand prize for the bottles of wine. Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Hi Kanonier. Thanks for doing that and I think unless it has been scored wrongly your view is correct. Your kind words as ever are humbling. I think we had a tough group that some people pulled a short straw to be put in. Looking at the results and points it seems that you have a higher score than some of the other "winners" from the different sections? If this is the case would it not be an idea to take the top x number of players scores and have them in the finals? Maybe not for this one as the rules were laid out at the beginning, but perhaps for the next ROW? If there is another. I will do my best to get the crate of wine. This is the 3rd time I have made the finals of a ROW tourney (if I have) and I surprise myself ever time getting so far. Thanks and I await your choice of PBEM so we can play something where you don't kick my butt all over the field. H [ May 27, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Holien ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabla Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 A couple of issues. First, as the tournament manual states, only section winners go into the finals. Holien: it is not fair to compare the results of players in different sections against each other, since they have played against different people - comparisons are only fair inside each section. In fact, the output of the scoring system could be improved so that it would output each section separately; currently it only gives one single big list (which is a bit misleading, I agree). Second, these are not the final results, because points from the AARs are not included. It is up to Kingfish to include AAR points, and then pick up section winners. Third, remember to check your battle results (the original CM scores) in that long list. Currently it seems like we have the right battle results there, but one never knows. [ May 27, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Nabla ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabla Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I edited away the warning that the results are still being cross-checked from my result post on previous page. As far as I know, the results found on previous page are the Nabla scores for this tournament (but AAR points are not included yet). I also arranged the scores according to sections, so you can now see directly who is eligible for playoffs if the AAR points do not change the ordering. (I will never admit it publicly - because I'm a graduate CS student - but I did it by hand.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Nabla: (I will never admit it publicly - because I'm a graduate CS student - but I did it by hand.) Ummmm....I think you've just broken your resolution already! Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabla Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nabla: (I will never admit it publicly - because I'm a graduate CS student - but I did it by hand.) Ummmm....I think you've just broken your resolution already! </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 OK, Looks like the ball is in my court now. Tonight I will award the AAR bonuses and announce the 12 finalists. Per Treeburst's manual each AAR will be worth either 4% or 2% of the highest tourney score, and checking the list provided by Nabla I see Lt Bull having the highest score with .81. This means that those who have submitted an AAR can expect to see as much as an extra .162 added to their score (.81 x .04 = .0324 x 5 AARs = .162) Not much, but it may provide just enough of a boost to propel the second place finisher into the leader's slot. If anyone sees a mistake in my math, or has a different interpretation of how AAR bonuses are awarded, please let me know as soon as possible. As of today I have received the following AARs: King of Debrecen Nolloff Texas Toast Holien Wellsonian mPisi The Capt Ted Frunze Seahawk Cpl Carrot Vadr Heavy Drop Shock Trooper Spanish Bombs Jon_L The Beast Wellsonian Spanish Bombs mPisi Nolloff Frunze Heavy Drop Texas Toast Shock Trooper Holien Lt Bull Cpl Carrot Jon_L Hosszupalyi Nolloff Wellsonian mPisi The Capt Kanonier Reichmann Texas Toast Frunze Shock Trooper Heavy Drop Holien Spanish Bombs Cpl Carrot The Christmas Battle Spanish Bombs Frunze Holien Shock Trooper Heavy Drop Texas Toast The Capt Lt Bull Cpl Carrot Anthony Hudson Rearguard action Spanish Bombs mPisi Nolloff Frunze Holien The Capt Ted Heavy Drop Shock Trooper Texas Toast Vadr Cpl Carrot Kanonier Reichmann Jon_L A reminder: I am still waiting for the author of the AAR that begins with "Please pardon any misspelling of the Scenarios and such:" to e-mail me. I need to know whom this belongs to if I am to award any bonuses points. Good luck to all [ May 27, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Kingfish ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 4 % means multiply by 0.04, not 0.004 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 The math major has been heard from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabla Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Another reason to implement AAR score calculations into the system as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 Ah yes, I meant .04. Damn 0 on the keyboard keeps sticking 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon L Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Kingfish I just sent Xmas and Hosszupalyi again, hopefully they'll get there this time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted May 28, 2003 Author Share Posted May 28, 2003 Gentlemen, After having reviewed all of the AARs in my possesion, and awarded the bonus points accordingly, I can now officially announce the 12 finalists who will proceed to the next round. The following list is broken down into sections showing both the original Nabla score and bonus points. Section 1-1 Juha_Ahoniemi 0.17 Bimmer 0.16 Enoch 0.01 Tabpub -0.08 (+.081)=.001 Spanish Bombs -0.18 (+.162)= -0.018 Combined Arms -0.12 Section 1-2 Holien 0.57 (+.162)=.732 Kanonier Reichmann 0.45 (+.0648)=.5148 Cpl_Carrot 0.22 (+.162)=.382 Bertram -0.28 Martyr -0.55 Michael_Dorosh -0.64 Section 1-3 Pacestick 0.71 Ted 0.12 (+.0486)=.1686 Gunnersman -0.16 Chris_Martino -0.16 jjelinek -0.18 Alexander -0.47 Section 1-4 mPisi 0.64 (+.1296)=.7696 The_Capt 0.52 (+.1296)=.6496 Heavy_Drop 0.42 (+.1458)=.5658 Pixelmaster -0.51 Mick_Oz -0.64 Fate -0.65 Section 2-1 Bryce Baker 0.30 SpineRipper 0.25 Texas_Toast 0.08 (+.081)=.161 U8Led 0.11 Capt_T -0.37 Vadr -0.41 (+.0648)= -0.3452 Section 2-2 Frunze 0.47 (+.1458)=.6158 Jon_L 0.41 (+.162)=.572 SgtAbell -0.03 Three_Oh_Eight -0.11 Tero -0.31 Jeb -0.47 Section 2-3 MickeyDz 0.37 Matt_Green 0.20 Lord_Dragon 0.09 MrSpkr 0.00 a1Steaks -0.28 Endit -0.39 Section 2-4 JPS 0.49 WadePM 0.23 James_Crowley 0.10 Nidan1 -0.19 Scheer -0.29 Sgt_Gold -0.44 Section 3-1 Wellsonian 0.35 (+.081)=.431 Sgt_CDAT 0.10 Seahawk 0.06 (+.0324)=.0924 Nolloff -0.13 (+.1296)= -.0004 Cyrano -0.01 Kevin Kolk -0.38 Section 3-2 Lt_Bull 0.81 (+.0972)=.9072 Stoneage 0.35 SlicerW 0.29 Major_Victory -0.43 Mr_Byte -0.50 Legend42 -0.69 Section 3-3 Shock_Trooper 0.50 (+.081)=.581 Flammenwerfer 0.02 Sripe -0.11 Jaws -0.11 Dirty_Mark -0.19 Joakim_Ruud -0.19 Section 3-4 Deadly_88 0.49 Ryddle 0.36 Superslug -0.05 Joe_Cz -0.20 Spacehamster -0.26 Frenchy -0.43 Please feel free to check my math, make sure my number jive, and let me know if you spot anything that doesn't look right. I'm sure there's probably a mistake or two in there. Even so, it would appear that the finalists are there to stay, as any error in my math would unlikely unseat them. Congratualtions Gentlemen, you are headed to the finals! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 So few AARs? I wish I have had the time to finish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Bombs Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Congratulations to all the winners, and good luck to Juha in the finals. Warning to his opponents: he'll try to distract you with links to TATU web sites. Finishing at the bottom of my section is cushioned somewhat by the very close spread. I refuse, however, to be called Juha's Bitch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 W00T!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneAge Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 First, as the tournament manual states, only section winners go into the finals. Holien: it is not fair to compare the results of players in different sections against each other, since they have played against different people - comparisons are only fair inside each section. In fact, the output of the scoring system could be improved so that it would output each section separately; currently it only gives one single big list (which is a bit misleading, I agree). Yes that is what the manual states for this ROW3 but what about ROW4 As I see the nabla system, you are scored against all 36 times a scenario is played. Not just the 3 times your group played it. so why not wild cards for next three highest ie The_Capt 0.52 Heavy_Drop 0.42 Jon_L 0.41 They have a higher final score than 4 of the finalists 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsonian Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Stoneage, These comments are meant in the most constructive way, so don't take my comments harshly! I understand you trying to help your group and all, but I think you are missing several points (first being that the guys you mention finished better then 3, not 4, of the finalists). The biggest reason they don't go by total score is that it does nothing to ensure the best players are in the finals What I mean is that I could score a 0.12, and win my section because we were all very good. You could score a 0.81, simply because you had a good draw with five mediocre to worse players (not saying that is the case LT Bull!). I agree that it could work the other way, but at least this way we maintain a tourney format, and not a free for all. Add to that the fact that there is a 'newbie' tourney (tourney 3), and how fair is that for the new guys? Would you just throw them to the Holien (read experienced) wolves? By the way Holien, your use of parenthetical marks for the term, "Winners" to refer to other sections is a little, well, frustrating. I believe your intent was simply to give credit to your well established and veteran section, but dang guy, it was on a message board for all of us "winners" to see. Care to teach me a probably well earned (and possibly deserved)lesson? Now, a wild card concept is interesting, but only if it doesn't replace section winners. That would increase the incentive for players to finish games and do as well as they could, with the hope that they could get in on the wildcard. Regardless, good discussion. I know that I was very fortunate on several occasions (Nolloff, Jim) to even manage a few minor victories. Oh well, I will now take my grumbly self to bed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Ahoniemi Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Originally posted by Spanish Bombs: I refuse, however, to be called Juha's Bitch. I agree, You're such a lady! I guess it's time for my updated sig: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Wellsonian Occchhh!!!! I guess some people read things that are not meant to be there. I apologise if you think that is what I intended by the quotes. I certainly mean no disrespect to any other winners. Upon re-reading it I can see how one might come to that conclusion. I shall try and explain why it is in quotes. I think these sorts of games rely on a certain element of chance and luck which does mean that I was lucky and therefore others were unlucky. I only meant the comment to level people (myself included) as "winners". There are indeed other good players who would have won or should perhaps be there instead of me and others. No slight was meant, it was just a comment on luck. And to think that I am just beating my own drum is the furest from the truth but the medimum of type will never show you that, perhaps a beer at a local pub. The points you make are somewhat harsh but I can see where you are comming from in your response to the scores. I am still not sure of the logic that we can compare all the scores of the games played, yet can not use that as a whole group rather than within the sections. I have as yet to really put my mind to that and will rely on others with that thought process. As for Redwolf's comment about AAR's that is something I noticed and feel that the tourney has lost out on this time around. I know I am lucky to be able to write as I go, but surely others can give some insight back to the designers about how they enjoyed (or did not) the games. The lack of discussion on the BBS is also fairly poor. Anyway I must now wake up and go to work. H [ May 28, 2003, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: Holien ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Congratulations to all winners and especially Shock Trooper (go for the honour of section 3-3 ) And a special thanks to Treeburst for setting up the tourney. To Kingfish for taking over the tourney( and for al the problems you solved to get it on). And Nabla for the most complex scoring system I've ever seen (I thinks you with this system you can win the war and let the enemy control your country ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted May 28, 2003 Author Share Posted May 28, 2003 Ah, insomnia. Don't you just love it? :mad: OK, a couple of things we need to discuss... First off, I went back and re-read Treeburst's tourney manual, and nowhere does it say anything about dropouts from the finals and how to handle it. While this is very unlikely to happen, one never knows, so I think now would be a good time to work out a plan. IMO, the best way would be to bring in the second place finisher of that person's section as the replacement. If he is not availible then I will go to the third place, and so on. Sound good, or not? Let me know. Second, I think the Bonus formula for AARs needs to be reworked. Currently a person will get either 4% or 2% of the highest tourney score. However, in reviewing the AARs last night I came to the conclusion that we need to add a 1% and 3% slot. Some of the AARs were real works of art, and deserved the full 4%, while others were not quite on the same level but due to the way the bonuses are awarded I had to score them both the same. Likewise, some guys just gave a paragraph or two for an AAR, and those were awarded a 2%, but there were others in the 2% range that I felt deserved a little more. Comments? Finally, I would like to remind everyone that you are all eligible to play the finals scenarios, and can form your own 3 man 'cell' if you want. I have a list up on the ROW BBS (which BTW is now open to all tourney members, not just those who finished all of their games) which has all of the players so far signed up. Send me an e-mail and I will get you signed up. OK, how about I get my ass in gear and launch the finals? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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