Combat photography: Photos from the front..

[PEB14]

16 hours ago, danfrodo said:

 It's meatball surgery not brain surgery, as I once heard said.

It's barber style surgery, you mean!

[Brille]

I like playing the soviets as well,especially because of the huge variety of their vehicle Pool.

And while it is T34 most of the time I like to drive and encounter different tanks once in a while. 

At the (latewar) Western allies you have almost only Shermans or look alikes of his. In Reallife it is probably the best way to go especially on logistics but in game it sometimes feels kind of sterile.

 

A unit that is probably overlooked by many is the T34/76. While he is outclassed in anti Tank Work by many Tanks at the late war, he probably is the best infantry support you can find or at least the most durable in saturation of fire.

Spending all of his ridiculous amount of 70 He rounds in a medium sized match may be a challenge in itself. He just can keep firing.

Though his weeknesses are translated into the game as well: overworked Commander and bad visibility. But that would be not that important as a sole demolisher unit.

 

[PEB14]

2 hours ago, Brille said:

I like playing the soviets as well,especially because of the huge variety of their vehicle Pool.

And while it is T34 most of the time I like to drive and encounter different tanks once in a while. 

At the (latewar) Western allies you have almost only Shermans or look alikes of his. In Reallife it is probably the best way to go especially on logistics but in game it sometimes feels kind of sterile.

 

A unit that is probably overlooked by many is the T34/76. While he is outclassed in anti Tank Work by many Tanks at the late war, he probably is the best infantry support you can find or at least the most durable in saturation of fire.

Spending all of his ridiculous amount of 70 He rounds in a medium sized match may be a challenge in itself. He just can keep firing.

Though his weeknesses are translated into the game as well: overworked Commander and bad visibility. But that would be not that important as a sole demolisher unit.

 

I'm not so enthusiast about the Soviet tanks, they're inferior in every aspect to the German in particular in term of spotting speed (bad optics?) and gunnery accuracy...

You're a little bit harsh with Allied tanks. While the Americans only rely on the Sherman, the Brits have a fait number of tanks. I like the slow and cumbersone Churchill tanks, in particular the Churchill VII whose frontal armor can withstand even Panther shells... The CS version is a must against MG positions with its 94mm gun! On the other hand I really hate the Cromwell. Rolling coffin...

In the infantry support role the Sherman nearly matches the T-34/76 with more than 50 HE rounds... And I like the 7k MG rounds of the Churchill as well. I think it's impossible to get out of ammo !!!

[Brille]

19 hours ago, PEB14 said:

I'm not so enthusiast about the Soviet tanks, they're inferior in every aspect to the German in particular in term of spotting speed (bad optics?) and gunnery accuracy..

Usually they spot worse,especially those tank series prior 1944. But they are Not that far behind in my experience.

I had multiple good results with them and also got kicked around by them when my opponents had these.

In one of my current games those IS2 even proved as good snipers in contrary to my usual encounters with them. They took 2 Panthers out with only one shot each at around 1200-1400m.(No ranging  Shots beforehand) Shots at other Panthers that missed were still so close that I made them run rather than fight back.

 

Those must be some Elite tankers I believe.

19 hours ago, PEB14 said:

You're a little bit harsh with Allied tanks. While the Americans only rely on the Sherman, the Brits have a fait number of tanks.

I said "almost" there didnt I ?

Im quite aware of the brits and they are one of my favorite factions to be honest. The downer here is that they are only in CMBN at their full potential, speaking of their own vehicles and tanks.

Im very excited to finally see them in CMFB in the next module.

I love the Cromwells. Sure they cannot do much in a brawl with Panthers and Tigers but they are good enough for Stugs and Panzer IV.

You Just need to utilize their speed. Combined with their low sillhouette it makes them good flankers or stealthy hit and runners.

The later versions trade their speed with a little bit more armor though.

But even that little extra protection wont hold against a Pak 40 at any range. So they give away one of their standout properties for almost no gain.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Brille

[Phantom Captain]

Honestly, I like all iterations of the T-34 too, with both the 76mm gun for the points mentioned above and because, of course, the T-34/85 was just excellent when used properly as we also mentioned above.  It really is one of my favs.

I mean, everyone does love the Tigers and Panthers, etc. and I do too but I think my favorite German tanks were the PzIV and honestly, the PzIII with the 50mm gun.  I think I really have a think for light and medium tanks more than the big heavies.  Don't get me wrong, the Tiger and Panther are fun and really good at what they do but they do have their vulnerabilities.  Nothing I love more than knocking out a Panther with a side shot from a 75mm Sherman!!  And again, at the end of the war, regardless of who had better optics etc. the Germans lost ALL their tanks.  So that argument is kinda moot in my opinion. 

And hey now!  Let's not be harsh or talk down about the most EXCELLENT Sherman tank in all of its special iterations as well!  The Brit tanks are interesting but I'll take good ole Shermans any day of the week.  I honestly love them and it is probably my #1 favorite tank of the war.  But then, I'm one of those guys who absolutely loves the Stuart tank too.  I mean, for a light infantry support/recon tank its just fantastic.  I love the Stuart for all the machineguns it carries and its very decent 37mm gun.  And I love the 75mm Sherman for it's anti-infantry punch and firepower as well.  The up-gunned 76mm Shermans are just icing on the cake if you happen to run into enemy armor!

 

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, Phantom Captain said:

The up-gunned 76mm Shermans

Don't forget Sherman Fireflies if you're British and up against enemy tanks.

A few other thoughts:

• the Sherman Jumbo packs a lot of pain for infantry with its 105mm.
• the Stuart is scary against infantry when using cannister rounds.
• I'm not such a fan of the Panzer IV as you are, I prefer Panthers for most jobs.
• I've had some luck with odd vehicles like the Stummel firing HEAT to take out T34/85s.
• after playing CMRT Cat and Mouse as a PBEM I became rather fond of IS2s.  They're tough, they have a good gun and they move reasonably well.  If only they re-loaded a bit quicker.

I could go on but I won't bore you any further.

Anyway more generally, your post suggests to me that you just like tanks.  Me too .

[PEB14]

12 hours ago, Brille said:

I love the Cromwells. Sure they cannot do much in a brawl with Panthers and Tigers but they are good enough for Stugs and Panzer IV.

You Just need to utilize their speed. Combined with their low sillhouette it makes them good flankers or stealthy hit and runners.

Lastly I had to use them in a defensive scenario where there was not much place to maneuver (Tilly Junction, I believe). They struggled to take out Panzer IVs, and it took them 4 or 5 penetrating shots to disable StuGs on the only two occasions they got. Let's forget about Panthers.

They're certainly the most valuable of the British Cruiser tanks by a large margin, but this only proves that the whole concept was an utter failure…

I won't trade 1 Churchill VII for 2 Cromwell. No Sir!

[PEB14]

2 hours ago, Vacillator said:

the Stuart is scary against infantry when using cannister rounds.

Oh yes!

[Phantom Captain]

8 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Anyway more generally, your post suggests to me that you just like tanks.  Me too .

Indeed!  That's me for sure!

 

[chuckdyke]

Reason I like Red Thunder, a boys dream came true. I finally can play with JS2s. Waited 60 years I am now 73 but it was worth it. 

[Brille]

13 hours ago, Vacillator said:

after playing CMRT Cat and Mouse as a PBEM I became rather fond of IS2s.  They're tough, they have a good gun and they move reasonably well.  If only they re-loaded a bit quicker

That is the scenario Im currently in. I thought the Cat is refering to the Panther in the title. But the more Panthers I loose (or almost loose) I have the feeling that the roles are reversed now.

 

Usually those JS2 take at least 1 to 2 ranging shots to be actually on target.

In 2 Cases now the Panther commanders only could See the muzzle flash and a short sight of the behemoth before they got taken apart.

@PEB14

Quote

They struggled to take out Panzer IVs, and it took them 4 or 5 penetrating shots to disable StuGs on the only two occasions they got. 

Then you must have been very unlucky in this instance. Most of my Stug loses and kills were one shot penetrations. If the vehicles itself wasnt destroyed the Crew was most likely vaporized because of the cramped interior. Its the same with all the turretless tanks actually.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Brille

[PEB14]

13 minutes ago, Brille said:

That is the scenario Im currently in. I thought the Cat is refering to the Panther in the title. But the more Panthers I loose (or almost loose) I have the feeling that the roles are reversed now.

 

Usually those JS2 take at least 1 to 2 ranging shots to be actually on target.

In 2 Cases now the Panther commanders only could See the muzzle flash and a short sight of the behemoth before they got taken apart.

@PEB14

Then you must have been very unlucky in this instance. Most of my Stug loses and kills were one shot penetrations. If the vehicles itself wasnt destroyed the Crew was most likely vaporized because of the cramped interior. Its the same with all the turretless tanks actually.

Youalways feel very unlucky when it comes to the destruction of AFV: yours always seem to be more brittle that your opponent's, whatever side you plau... I understood only recently that there is a reason for that: it takes generally more than one "killing hit" to just DISCOVER that the tank you're firing at is knocked out. As long as they're not sure, your own tanks go on firing at what might already be a wreck... And so you think that you need three shots to kill a tank while the first was already a kill!

That may be what happend to my Cromwells against this couple of StuG.

[chuckdyke]

Granata!

[Vacillator]

3 hours ago, Brille said:

That is the scenario Im currently in. I thought the Cat is refering to the Panther in the title. But the more Panthers I loose (or almost loose) I have the feeling that the roles are reversed now.

We had a great time in our PBEM, we both more or less ignored GeorgeMC's instructions and just went for each other.  I was Soviet of course.  Great game @George MC!

[George MC]

33 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

We had a great time in our PBEM, we both more or less ignored GeorgeMC's instructions and just went for each other.  I was Soviet of course.  Great game @George MC!

Yeah I ignored myself as well when I played it as a PBEM. I went hunting for the IS-IIs.

Narrator: don't do this kids.

[George MC]

Live action combat film from the front lines.

 

[Vacillator]

2 hours ago, George MC said:

Live action combat film from the front lines.

Strange behaviour there George?  Why did the Tiger not see/fire at the T34s?  I assume the Tiger traversed along behind the T34s and at some point they swiveled their turrets?  But I would have thought that would make them far less likely to see the Tiger than the Tiger seeing them?

Only explanation I've come up with is the Tiger was out of ammo or more likely had the dreaded 'main gun damage'.

[George MC]

18 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Strange behaviour there George?  Why did the Tiger not see/fire at the T34s?  I assume the Tiger traversed along behind the T34s and at some point they swiveled their turrets?  But I would have thought that would make them far less likely to see the Tiger than the Tiger seeing them?

Only explanation I've come up with is the Tiger was out of ammo or more likely had the dreaded 'main gun damage'.

The Tiger did see them but only after he'd past the, The trees are switched off but both T-34s were in reverse slope position hidden in trees. The Tiger appears to have not known they were. he's moving at full speed. Once he's level he starts to spot them but there are two and it takes time for the Tiger's turret to traverse - all the time he's rolling along in the opposite direction the gun is traversing. I don't think its not odd spotting BTW more showing how slow the Tiger turret traverse it. The RHS T-34 got the first shot off which bounced. Just takes time to swung that but old turret around.

 

EDIT: The T-34s knew he was coming - shared radio info and then they had a sound contcat. I assume the Tiger had no such knowledge. In fact I'm certain he had no info they were there.

Edited November 16, 2023 by George MC

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, George MC said:

I don't think its not odd spotting BTW

Maybe one of those moments where if you're the owner of the Tiger you might raise a vexed eyebrow, but if you're the T34 owner you might not .

Were the T34s hidden by any chance, so engines off?  Just curious.

[StieliAlpha]

4 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Maybe one of those moments where if you're the owner of the Tiger you might raise a vexed eyebrow, but if you're the T34 owner you might not .

Were the T34s hidden by any chance, so engines off?  Just curious.

I hate to say it, but my beloved Tiger often disappoints me in CM. Despite the frontal strength and fierce look.

I.e., the video does not surprise me too much.

[Vacillator]

16 minutes ago, StieliAlpha said:

my beloved Tiger often disappoints me in CM

I've been there too Andreas, but I'd still rather have a Tiger than a Panzer IV .

[Phantom Captain]

1 hour ago, Vacillator said:

I've been there too Andreas, but I'd still rather have a Tiger than a Panzer IV .

Ha!  Honestly, for battle, I probably would too.  However, it still doesn't change my affection for the PzIV.  If I had my choice, I'd take a Panther even before the Tiger, I think.

2 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

I hate to say it, but my beloved Tiger often disappoints me in CM. Despite the frontal strength and fierce look.

I.e., the video does not surprise me too much.

Yep.  Truly though, ALL WWII tanks are pretty blind so none of it surprises me.  Buttoned up, I honestly don't rely on any of them to get get spots.  That's what radios, binoculars, and a commander's hatch are for!    

Someone posted on one of the modern threads a video of a Ukrainian and Russian tank going right past each other and then not being able to spot the other, or subsequently losing track of the other in the heat and confusion of battle, and these are modern tanks.

That all being said, I don't really have any arguments about armor spotting in CM anymore.  I just put it all down to adrenaline, nerves, smoke, death, fire, blood and confusion on the battlefield.  @George MC's video even reinforces it a bit.  I mean it was the Soviet tanks that had intel and a contact and the Tiger didn't have a clue they were where they were.  I meant to ask you George, did you have firing arcs on the T-34s or was it the AI itself slinging those turrets backwards?

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Phantom Captain

[danfrodo]

On 11/15/2023 at 8:55 AM, Phantom Captain said:

Honestly, I like all iterations of the T-34 too, with both the 76mm gun for the points mentioned above and because, of course, the T-34/85 was just excellent when used properly as we also mentioned above.  It really is one of my favs.

I mean, everyone does love the Tigers and Panthers, etc. and I do too but I think my favorite German tanks were the PzIV and honestly, the PzIII with the 50mm gun.  I think I really have a think for light and medium tanks more than the big heavies.  Don't get me wrong, the Tiger and Panther are fun and really good at what they do but they do have their vulnerabilities.  Nothing I love more than knocking out a Panther with a side shot from a 75mm Sherman!!  And again, at the end of the war, regardless of who had better optics etc. the Germans lost ALL their tanks.  So that argument is kinda moot in my opinion. 

And hey now!  Let's not be harsh or talk down about the most EXCELLENT Sherman tank in all of its special iterations as well!  The Brit tanks are interesting but I'll take good ole Shermans any day of the week.  I honestly love them and it is probably my #1 favorite tank of the war.  But then, I'm one of those guys who absolutely loves the Stuart tank too.  I mean, for a light infantry support/recon tank its just fantastic.  I love the Stuart for all the machineguns it carries and its very decent 37mm gun.  And I love the 75mm Sherman for it's anti-infantry punch and firepower as well.  The up-gunned 76mm Shermans are just icing on the cake if you happen to run into enemy armor!

 

100% for sure on all points.  I love having Stuart when I'm facing german infantry & AT guns.  The vast majority of fights were not w panthers & tigers involved, so shermans did a great job overall.  Except for some of those fights in Brit sector in Normandy facing all those panthers -- those are gawd awful w shermans.

[Phantom Captain]

A VERY BRIEF encounter.

I know @FlammenwerferX has a PzIV on overwatch in a field beyond a woodlot and across a lake and he's been throwing HE into my SMG troops in the woodlot (who have their hands full with the German soldiers they have encountered in the woods) and causing me some pain.  Earlier one of my T-34/85s got hit and one of the crew killed but the survivors dismounted, went and took a lie down and then got brave and hopped back into their machine.  I immediately tasked them with trying to take care of this problem.

Racing across a field behind the woodlot, my tank spots the "thorn in my side" PzIV.

However, FlammewerferX's tank spots me at the same time.  Both tanks level their guns.

My crew fires!  And you may not notice but if you look closely you can see the puff of smoke around the PzIV as both tanks fire at each simultaneously!

Incredibly both Soviet and German tank round pass each other in flight.

Mutual destruction as both tanks destroy each other at the same time.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Phantom Captain

[danfrodo]

2 hours ago, Phantom Captain said:

A VERY BRIEF encounter.

I know @FlammenwerferX has a PzIV on overwatch in a field beyond a woodlot and across a lake and he's been throwing HE into my SMG troops in the woodlot (who have their hands full with the German soldiers they have encountered in the woods) and causing me some pain.  Earlier one of my T-34/85s got hit and one of the crew killed but the survivors dismounted, went and took a lie down and then got brave and hopped back into their machine.  I immediately tasked them with trying to take care of this problem.

Racing across a field behind the woodlot, my tank spots the "thorn in my side" PzIV.

However, FlammewerferX's tank spots me at the same time.  Both tanks level their guns.

My crew fires!  And you may not notice but if you look closely you can see the puff of smoke around the PzIV as both tanks fire at each simultaneously!

Incredibly both Soviet and German tank round pass each other in flight.

Mutual destruction as both tanks destroy each other at the same time.

whoa, that is wild!