panzermartin Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Fernando said: Exactly what Ts4EVER said: Just look at how past German governments treated Greece and other countries hit by the 2008 crisis. And I would add, and whenever their economic interests are at stake. Yes as a greek citizen I second that. It's not that we didn't have our corruption and economic mismanagement issues but they made as look back then like the black sheep of Europe when in reality the issues were far wider as history proved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, Fernando said: Exactly what Ts4EVER said: Just look at how past German governments treated Greece and other countries hit by the 2008 crisis. ... and whenever their economic interests are at stake, I would add Greece is by far one of the most corrupt and badly governed countries of Europe, which costed the other EU countries, especially Germany, billions and billions. Apart from that nor Greece, nor the 'other countries' have anything to complain about except their own corrupt governments and unreliability. That won't stop them from complaining of course, but that's another story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 The main problem was that German government were and are still drinking that liberal cool-aid, which is that government spending and debt are automatically bad things and a balanced budget is the be-all, end-all of economics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Gents any chance of keeping the thread on track? Ukraine... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: Greece is by far one of the most corrupt and badly governed countries of Europe, which costed the other EU countries, especially Germany, billions and billions. Apart from that nor Greece, nor the 'other countries' have anything to complain about except their own corrupt governments and unreliability. That won't stop them from complaining of course, but that's another story. Obviously the Greek government is corrupt and inefficient, but the whole did not cost the Germans any money at all, considering the devaluing of the Euro is massively beneficial to the German economy. And none of their measures improved things, really. They could easily have said: Look, we will give you the bailout money on the condition that you overhaul your tax code, find out what the oligarchs own and tax / nationalize it, root out corruption etc. That is not what happened though: Instead they fought "evil" government spending by cutting programs like healthcare, education, unemployment benefits and left the whole system untouched, because that is more in line with their capitalist ideology, as well as their preconceived notions about "lazy southerners". 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: Greece is by far one of the most corrupt and badly governed countries of Europe, which costed the other EU countries, especially Germany, billions and billions. Apart from that nor Greece, nor the 'other countries' have anything to complain about except their own corrupt governments and unreliability. That won't stop them from complaining of course, but that's another story. It's ironic though because look at Germany now, they look like the most corrupted of all EU, bribed by russian energy and with an ex chancellor on head of gazprom, while they were pointing fingers to southern Europe. It's no surprise most southern EU counties have no enthusiasm actually battling Russia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 34 minutes ago, Ts4EVER said: Just look at how past German governments treated Greece and other countries hit by the 2008 crisis. Saving their corrupt and ruined economies with billions of Euros paid by tax payers in Germany, the Netherlands and other Northern European countries, you mean? Yes, I agree, THAT was stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: Greece is by far one of the most corrupt and badly governed countries of Europe, which costed the other EU countries, especially Germany, billions and billions. Apart from that nor Greece, nor the 'other countries' have anything to complain about except their own corrupt governments and unreliability. That won't stop them from complaining of course, but that's another story. "Corruption and unreability" seems to me to apply much more appropriately to a government that has sold its energy independence to Putin, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Holien said: Gents any chance of keeping the thread on track? Ukraine... You're right. Sorry about that. Really pissed me off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 @Haiduk Apparently, more and more pictures are turning up since a few days with UA soldiers wearing green armbands? Any idea what that means? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_MonkeyKing Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said: @Haiduk Apparently, more and more pictures are turning up since a few days with UA soldiers wearing green armbands? Any idea what that means? I think it means they were out of yellow and blue. haha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 A destroyed self-propelled artillery unit on a road near Kharkiv, Ukraine, Tuesday April 12, 2022. FELIPE DANA / AP * 2S1 Gvodzika 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riptides Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said: @Haiduk Apparently, more and more pictures are turning up since a few days with UA soldiers wearing green armbands? Any idea what that means? 3m Painters tape in short supply. There is talk of refitted/resupplied units bearing those. And the validity (timeframe) of the picture is now in question. Could be older pre-war war-gaming. Edited April 13, 2022 by riptides more info,... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 21 minutes ago, DesertFox said: That would be a major improvement of NATO in both the Baltic Sea and the Arctic Sea. I hope it will happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Listened to Jens Stoltenberg words fail me. He seems to think that this war will go away by being nice and responsible. Because NATO has leaders of his calibre all what he achieved is encouraging Russia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: That would be a major improvement of NATO in both the Baltic Sea and the Arctic Sea. I hope it will happen. Baltic will soon be a NATO lake, and it looks like the Black Sea will follow, to a degree determined by the outcome of this war. No friendly shores for Russian ships on both those seas, apart from their own. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: Listened to Jens Stoltenberg words fail me. He seems to think that this war will go away by being nice and responsible. Because NATO has leaders of his calibre all what he achieved is encouraging Russia. I like this man. And to be fair, what can NATO/EU do instead of supplying arms, taking up millions of refugees and implement sanctions. That isn't nothing and a lot more than the rest of the world is doing. Edited April 13, 2022 by Aragorn2002 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: That would be a major improvement of NATO in both the Baltic Sea and the Arctic Sea. I hope it will happen. Absolutely! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Javelin/Stinger inventory and production estimates. https://www.csis.org/analysis/will-united-states-run-out-javelins-russia-runs-out-tanks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Hope that knowledge never comes in handy for anybody, but just in case... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: That isn't nothing and a lot more than the rest of the world is doing. I am afraid it is not enough when you deal with a psychopath. They need to be locked up in an asylum. This war won't go away by winning one or two battles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, db_zero said: Javelin/Stinger inventory and production estimates. https://www.csis.org/analysis/will-united-states-run-out-javelins-russia-runs-out-tanks Quite worrying actually. I know the dutch army did sent most of it's Stingers and Panzerfausts to Ukraine and I suspect Germany did the same. And the number of Russian tanks still available also worries me. Not all of them may be runners and not all of them may have a crew but it still means the Russians aren't done yet. But don't rule out the Panzerfaust and other AT weapons of NATO. Most Ukrainian soldiers will have mastered their fear of tanks by now and put them to good use. The good news is that the Russians won't have much to fight with once the Ukrainian army is finished with them. Edited April 13, 2022 by Aragorn2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, chuckdyke said: I am afraid it is not enough when you deal with a psychopath. They need to be locked up in an asylum. This war won't go away by winning one or two battles. Patience, my friend. We'll get the bastards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Huba said: Hope that knowledge never comes in handy for anybody, but just in case... Note guys, that it is a French bulletproof vest (rather old model) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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