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How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?


Probus

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9 minutes ago, Huba said:

What I was wondering is if it is possible to achieve some surprise on this level. Let's say that the Russian northern group of forces around Izyum doesn't push south at all, instead going west trying to encircle Kharkiv (not saying that this particular scenario is realistic, just an example, probably on a lesser scale too). Does this kind of thinking make sense at all ?

You're not asking on behalf of Vladimir are you?  Just joking...

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8 minutes ago, Huba said:

In light of the discussion above it looks like it's hardly possible to hide your forces, but I'd think that until those start moving, you can't fully predict how are they going to be used and plan accordingly, you have to make some assumptions. 

What I was wondering is if it is possible to achieve some surprise on this level. Let's say that the Russian northern group of forces around Izyum doesn't push south at all, instead going west trying to encircle Kharkiv (not saying that this particular scenario is realistic, just an example, probably on a lesser scale too). Does this kind of thinking make sense at all ?

Some, But especially this time of year any meaningful Russian force is completely road bound due weather/ground conditions. So it just isn't that hard to put blocking forces at all the significant road junctions in case they tried something like that. And the The Ukrainians essentially have interior lines all the way across the current front. So they don't have to move as far to block as the Russians do to attack. Again if the Russians actually thought about that they would just quit and go home.

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8 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

You're not asking on behalf of Vladimir are you?  Just joking...

Busted! :P Seriously though: I have no military background, but I was always interested in history, especially of the military kind, even studied it at the Uni. After two decades of reading one can be tempted to think that he understands some basic principles. This kind of mental exercise is a way to put it to the test. I of course say this with all the humility of a layman.

Edited by Huba
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Just now, Kinophile said:

Cesc, Huba! Welcome to the PutinIsSoScrewedGodWeHopeSo thread!  :)

Cześć! It is refreshing after spending time in the "Russia is restraining itself that's whay they didn't win already" bubble.

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3 hours ago, Saberwander said:

They are just not fighting this in a way that can achieve victory.

Or they just destroy everything and ruin the economy. Cutting the Ukraine off from the Black Sea will complete the task. Ukraine will end up like Finland in the 60's of the last century. 

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58 minutes ago, Kinophile said:

Thanks - luckily I know how to get through paywalls ;)

"It used a complex chain of malware, including some custom-built to control utility systems" - that's the OT I mentioned.

"In recent weeks, American officials have warned that Russia could try to expand its cyberwarfare" - this is a correct statement, and is one of the reasons private companies have been hardening up.

"The attackers may have broken into the electrical company’s systems as early as February" - so it could have been an APT, an "Advanced Persistent Threat", something that hangs around waiting to be activated.  Nonetheless failed, maybe that's why (the article is not specific).  Sometimes an APT is discovered because it disrupts normal activity patterns over time and the SIEM and/or human threat hunters notice.

"since Russia’s invasion began,[...] three times as many attacks as it had tracked in the previous year" - this is consistent with my data feeds, but globally, not just in Ukraine.  

"Some analysts believed that Russia would back up its ground invasion with crippling cyberattacks and were puzzled when widespread hacking campaigns did not materialize during the early days of the war."  - more like _every_ analyst. 

Further to my previous lengthy post, in addition to other speculations I'm wondering if the Russian cyber warfare groups are as borked as the kinetic warfare people.  Someone pointed out earlier that NATO had threatened Article 5, but cyber warfare difficult to clearly attribute to a specific threat actor, and in any event the language used was “massive cyber attack”; we haven't even see significant pinpricks.  You'd think that messing up air traffic control at one of the Polish airports taking in Western aid would be a priority, but nothing, at least not in the public domain.

For those keeping track: 2022 Ukraine cyberattacks - Wikipedia

 

Edited by acrashb
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5 minutes ago, Offshoot said:

I assumed this was trying to point out that the cages don't stop top attack missiles but looking at the picture I wasn't convinced it wasn't just a rock on top of the cage.
I can't check the Twitter thread now so was this the conclusion?

Yeah, I checked the shadows again and what looked at first like a penetration hole through the cage was actually a clod of dirt sitting on top.

Edited by akd
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Quote

Those who talk of a stalemate on the battlefield, perhaps lasting years, are likely making as big of an error as when they dismissed the possibility of effective Ukrainian resistance two months ago. Decisive action is urgently required to tip the balance between a costly success and a calamity.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/ukraine-russia-war-consequences/629541/

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@acrashb I've a friend of a friend in cyber threat analysis. She's noted re the attack:

Quote

 

Sandworm team, revised Industroyer. Eset and Slovak CSIRT do a lot of work on them, released to CSIRT-network earlier.

In broad terms, means RU have given up trying to preserve civilian infrastructure- their forces in north were dependant on the civvie grid for their comms and energy.

New theatre commander has no illusions, and forces are better supplied. Kill the grid.

 

Further:

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[The] supply chain risk is one of the major worries on a wider scale. December 20 Solarwinds- RU (SVR) had unlimited access to 50k firms- they accessed about 28, and left the rest alone. Then they burned that access trying to see what Fireeye Mandiant had.

So they were happy enough to burn access to 50k firms, on a thunderun. What other access did they have that they felt they could lose that access? And what they’ve used so far is old exploits and wipers - nothing major.

So....

 

Either they're holding back the One Ring or...there is no One Ring, just a gilded hula-hoop.

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