Why are modern CM title soldiers all white men?

[Maquisard manqué]

I approach the post question with some trepidation, hopefully unwarranted. You never know with the internet after all...

Here goes:

When the contemporary US (and UK) military have such a diverse ethnic mix in their combat ranks, and increasing gender diversity there too, and with CM striving for such high fidelity in its reproduction of the arms and doctrine of the armies involved, why on earth isn't the same applied to the colour of the pixel truppen's skin or their gender?

I am not asking for the typical computer game's response to women (armour with boobs!) and I appreciate this reflects mostly on the modern CM titles, but I've not seen any non-white troops in WW2 titles where there most certainly were (North Africa, Italy). I imagine it's just been overlooked but seriously, when we might obsess over the angle of a glacis in a Jagdpanzer casemate, why not the people in the uniforms too?

I'm sorry if this descends into flames. I ask this question with the best will in the world.

[danfrodo]

I think i saw dark skinned men in CMCW actually.  'course, WW2 US was totally segregated so wouldn't see that there. 

[domfluff]

Uh... they're not all white, and never have been.

Since CMSF 1 there have been soldiers with light and dark skin in the base games (at least for the US army, and in the modern titles - WW2 is a different story for obvious reasons).

Now, that's a fairly basic representation - there's no women, and it's an either/or thing, but still, that's fundamentally not a true statement.

Edited May 6, 2021 by domfluff

[Sgt Joch]

yes, there have been "visible minority" pixeltruppen since SF1 days.

Here is a CW screenshot I took some times back.

[Mord]

Jesus Christ...don't bring that sh*t here. There's twitter and tumblr and facebook and a thousand other places for the oppression olympics.

As for the question...THERE'S HUGE diversity, unless of course you think all "white" people are the same. We have Americans, Canadians, British, Germans, Russians, Ukranian, New Zealanders, South Africans,  French, Poles, Dutch, Italians, (along with skins for black and brown citizens of those nations where viable) as well as Brazilian, Syrians, Indians, Sikhs, and plenty of portraits for Maori, Gurkha, Goumiers, Algerians, Japanese Americans, Druze, Assyrian, Palestinian, and Shi'ite. Hope that's enough "diversity" for you.

EDITED: CMBB and CMAK also had Finnish, Romanians, Hungarians, and Australians.

Burn it before it lays eggs...

Mord.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mord

[Mord]

 

 

 

 

[Sequoia]

I wanted to tell about my experience with helmet and poster mods a while back. I found one sees less diversity on posters and helmets if the graphic settings are lower. It's possible face graphics are the same. I almost never zoom in close enough to tell with faces.

[ratdeath]

I just tested with CMFI and it sure is not only white men, I even saw a difference between the Italian and German forces. The Brazilians have a lot more diversity with darker skin and so on. Also seen dark skin in CMCW.

Final Blitzkrieg and Red Thunder is probably all "white" but I would argue that is authentic to the time period.

Maybe the Russian forces have some diversity, with people from other parts of the soviet union.

 

[BFCElvis]

1 hour ago, domfluff said:

Uh... they're not all white, and never have been.

Since CMSF 1 there have been soldiers with light and dark skin in the base games (at least for the US army, and in the modern titles - WW2 is a different story for obvious reasons).

Now, that's a fairly basic representation - there's no women, and it's an either/or thing, but still, that's fundamentally not a true statement.

You are 100% correct.

 

Does this thread need to exist? I'm not sure since the question has already been answered for now I'll just it die a natural death rather than lock it.

[Mord]

 

[Sgt Joch]

11 minutes ago, ratdeath said:

I just tested with CMFI and it sure is not only white men, I even saw a difference between the Italian and German forces. The Brazilians have a lot more diversity with darker skin and so on. Also seen dark skin in CMCW.

Final Blitzkrieg and Red Thunder is probably all "white" but I would argue that is authentic to the time period.

Maybe the Russian forces have some diversity, with people from other parts of the soviet union.

 

it is more noticeable in the modern titles, roughly 1/3rd of all pixeltruppen in the U.S. Army in SF, BS and now CW are "African-American" or other visible minorities which more or less tracks their real percentage since minorities have always been over represented in the armed forces for economic reasons. You will also find minority troopers in the British, Canadian and Dutch forces in SF.

[Maquisard manqué]

1 hour ago, Sgt Joch said:

it is more noticeable in the modern titles, roughly 1/3rd of all pixeltruppen in the U.S. Army in SF, BS and now CW are "African-American" or other visible minorities which more or less tracks their real percentage since minorities have always been over represented in the armed forces for economic reasons. You will also find minority troopers in the British, Canadian and Dutch forces in SF.

OK! I don't have the latest versions so am glad to be wrong. It seems a very easy thing to have right.

I guess if asking the very question is so appalling then sure, close and delete the thread. I had searched and didn't find one with appropriate keywords though.

[Vacillator]

FWIW, I think it was a reasonable question, and it was reasonably answered.  No need to lock IMHO.

[Bulletpoint]

I also thought it was a fair question, and a good answer.

[BFCElvis]

34 minutes ago, Maquisard manqué said:

I guess if asking the very question is so appalling then sure, close and delete the thread.

Asking the question isn't appalling. We've seen these kind of threads spiral out of control......That's what I was watching for. Not the question itself.

[Mord]

Brand new, 5 posts in, doesn't know anything about the games, then starts asking why there aren't any women and minorities? I don't trust the guy.

 

Mord.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mord

[Erwin]

BTW Mord, I have a "Mord & DC's CMFI Portrait Mod v2.1" and a "Mord & DC's CMFI Portrait Mod".  Most files seem identical and look great.  Should the 2nd one be deleted?   (Love your menu mods as well.)

Edited May 6, 2021 by Erwin

[Mord]

@ErwinThanks. Glad you dig them.

2.1 was the fully updated version that added in the Algerian formations. That's the version to keep.

 

Mord.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mord

[Maquisard manqué]

1 hour ago, Mord said:

Brand new, 5 posts in, doesn't know anything about the games, then starts asking why there aren't any women and minorities? I don't trust the guy.

 

Mord.

I can see why you'd think that. Fair enough.

I knew it'd be rash to ask and am now kicking myself for not researching it thoroughly. Again, I am glad to be wrong!

[Vacillator]

Okay, I think we're probably done on that one and we've avoided a lock ?  What's the next question?

[Mord]

2 minutes ago, Maquisard manqué said:

I can see why you'd think that. Fair enough.

I knew it'd be rash to ask and am now kicking myself for not researching it thoroughly. Again, I am glad to be wrong!

Ok. Fair enough it is. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I just don't want to see a bunch of weirdness dragged into this hobby/place like has plagued and destroyed a lot of others in the last few years. I come here to escape modern politics and real world BS. We'll chalk it up to bad timing/misunderstanding/lack of knowledge.

I am normally pretty friendly to noobs, believe it or not, thread just struck me wrong, I suppose.

So, welcome.

Mord.

[Freyberg]

I thought it was an interesting question, which I hadn't really thought much about (apart from having played the Indian army in CMFI a lot and enjoyed the very accurate representations of the Sikhs), with interesting answers provided - as always, CM seems to have got it right...

Edited May 7, 2021 by Freyberg

[samuraiman]

Certainly a fair question.  For CMBS I love Kieme's CMBS reworked USA faces mod - great mixture of diverse US troops.  I'll add that the CMCW US troops look good also.

Edited May 7, 2021 by samuraiman

[Badger73]

WW2 units tended to be racially (USA) and ethnically (European territories) segregated although there are exceptions.  Here are faces at The CM Mod Warehouse which someone can mix and match from other CM titles for a more integrated look (depending how CMCW labels those files).

• Aris Faces Mod CMRT
• JorgeMCs CMRT Faces
• German Winter Faces
• CMBN & CMFI Aris US Weathered Faces
• JorgeMc UK Moustaches
• CMBN Mod Japanese Forces (Brits, SS)

I also have Aris's mods for African-American-Faces-CMBN, Asian-Faces1-CMFI, and Asian-Faces2-CMFI which are too big to post here but I can email to someone who wants to host on a file share URL.

 

Yo, @Mord - what are the URL's where I can find your FOG2 mods?  I'd like to check them out.  Thanks. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Badger73

[chuckdyke]

Some Soviet snipers could be improved on. The modders could do something. I realize we are a little of topic with F&R. But females were employed in WW2 too. Give credit where it is due. 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by chuckdyke
Adding info.