U.S. Thread - CM Cold War - BETA AAR - Battle of Dolbach Heights 1980

[Holien]

Thanks for the update Bil, do you view the loss of an M150 more of value than say one of your tanks?

To me they seem pretty important losses?

 

 

 

[Bil Hardenberger]

3 minutes ago, Holien said:

Thanks for the update Bil, do you view the loss of an M150 more of value than say one of your tanks?

To me they seem pretty important losses?

Well seeing as my tanks have done most of the killing so far, they are much more precious to me. 

My M-150s can't seem to hit.. in fact the M-150 that was just killed missed a shot long (at the BMP that killed it) in the previous turn. 

Bil

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Eighteenth Minute - Relearning Old Lessons

“Lost in a blurred confusion of yells and groans... down, and down, and down, he sank and drowned, bleeding to death. The counter-attack had failed.”

Siegfried Sassoon

I seem to be relearning the same old lessons over and over again.  I had my 2nd Platoon tanks driving through the open to get to the low ground for the Short Option… the lead M-60A1 was spotted by both the T-64B and the BMP-1P across the map, and after exchanging fire with them, the BMP (of course) hit…

…at least the smoke from the burning tank should mask two of the three tanks which are following.  They are too far forward to reverse and use a covered route, so pedal to the metal boys!

Lesson learned.. again.

The 2nd Platoon tanks that are already on this “open route” will continue as fast as possible behind the burning and smoking wreck of their comrade… the tank that hasn’t broken cover yet will remain and take a safer route. 

3rd Platoon will also be taking a safer route.  Details next turn.

1^st Platoon Tank Section 2 moved forward slightly and was able to take the T-64A in the blocking position tree line under fire...

...actually got a couple hits, but alas, no penetrations.  However this tank did start to withdraw from the line.  By the way, this was the final undamaged T-64A... but these things are very hard to kill.

[hank24]

This video is excellent! Best presentation ever.

[akd]

3 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

so pedal to the metal boys!

 

[Erwin]

Ahh... sweet...

[markus544]

Very interesting to say the least.  T-64 might have been the battlefield king in that era.  Which I think is probably true

 

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Nineteenth & Twentieth Minutes

“The important thing in strategy is to suppress the enemy's useful actions but allow his useless actions”

A Book of Five Rings - Miyomoto Musashi

Starting to get HOT... this is a long one.. so buckle up!!  

These two minutes of action unfold a lot of important developments for this battle.  On my right, 2nd Platoon/s tanks made it to the low ground that composes the Short Option...

...one of them gets a spot on Warren's star killer BMP-1P in the treeline across the map and after some back and forth missed shots it finally lands one... damn fine shooting for a vanilla M-60A1 on the move.

 

One of 3rd Platoon's M-150s spots and fires at the T-64A that was beaten up by 1st Platoon's Tank Section 2 last turn (and again in these turns) as it withdrew through the woods into the open ground... the M-150 does hit with its TOW.. but the T-64 shrugged off even that blow.  However.. I would be surprised if any of Warren'e two surviving T-64As have a working gun now.  

 

On my left Warren is indeed up to something, the action was preceded by an artillery strike on the the woods in this area.  Sadly the only casualty was the Scout team that was calling in my Cluster mission... isn't that the way it always works?

...initially three BMP-1s and two T-62s broke cover.

The 2nd Platoon leader team fired a Dragon at one of the BMPs.. which missed long.

The BMP then oriented on the 2nd platoon Leader's M113, which was caught too far forward and put one gun round through it's front armor... killing the vehicle and it's crew.

 

After reloading, 2nd PL's Dragon gunner took aim at the T-62 traveling with the BMP and succeeded in killing it.  FYI, the Dragon firing animation is still a work in progress, so I am keeping zoomed out from it.  Hopefully losing this tank will make Warren pause or change his tack towards my Scout teams.

Remember that my units on my far left were originally meant as a decoy.. and hopefully his attack will orient itself on them and away from my main combat power. 

 

By the end of the twentieth minute there were five T-62s (including the dead one) and five BMP-1s identified... so I think at least two Platoons of tanks and two platoons of BMPs.  I suspect these BMPs do not contain any infantry, so this is probably meant as an armored raid into my rear.  That's how I see it at this point in the game anyway.

I have started moving 1st Platoon's Tank Section 1 across the map to hopefully hit his attacking force in the flank, or better.. the rear.  It'll take a few minutes for them to get into a position where they can begin hunting.

 

Back on my right, Warren has pushed at least one T-62 forward to blunt my tanks coming up the stream route.  Spotted by the same M-60A1 that just took out the BMP, with this result:

So to recap... if Warren pushes towards my Scout teams on my far left.. then that suits me.  It's less fire power for him to devote to blunting my tank movement on my right. 

My scouts and M-150s (which are withdrawing as fast as they can) will transition into a Delay operation now.

 

Final bit of action... on my right, 1st Platoon's 2nd Tank Section (tank 1/7) took a penetrating hit from the T-64B across the valley (should be the final undamaged T-64 on the map).  The M-60 suffers one casualty and minor damage.  Damn... well hopefully I can pull it out of the line before it gets hit again.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Bil Hardenberger

[MikeyD]

M60A1 comes loaded with four rounds of WP. That means a tank platoon's got 20 rounds of smoke at its disposal. If you're looking to make a 'bold tactical move' you might be able to accomplish it behind a smoke screen.

[BletchleyGeek]

Beautiful report @Bil Hardenberger, greatly appreciate the vignettes that illustrate the in game events... it's great to see some combined arms action (even if some of that was blue on blue!).

[MikeyD]

I recall general Patton sending a memo to the growing number of green tanker crews in his force. He admonished them DON'T FIGHT FROM THE TREELINE! You've got no cover and less concealment than you think you have.

[Bil Hardenberger]

3 hours ago, MikeyD said:

M60A1 comes loaded with four rounds of WP. That means a tank platoon's got 20 rounds of smoke at its disposal. If you're looking to make a 'bold tactical move' you might be able to accomplish it behind a smoke screen.

Yes, I've been using them to interfere with his targeting/spotting for a few turns now... the smoke you see in the images above (on my right) are all WP rounds.  

[BrotherSurplice]

A delicious AAR, just the thing to whet the appetite for this game!

[IMHO]

On 3/12/2021 at 3:26 PM, The_MonkeyKing said:

I know in CM you can kill BMPs with mortars >80mm and tanks can die from 122mm(smallest I have seen).

I tested 122mm and 155mm precision rounds in CMBS against T-90s and BMP-3s - something like 30-50 of each caliber against each kind of target. I had many cases of 122mm direct hits on tanks and never got a kill - just equipment degradation (or track damage should the round have landed nearby). In my experience direct hits for precision rounds are about 1/3-1/2 of all shots so it should be 10-25 hits for each caliber. So I kinda doubt a 122mm can kill a tank in CMBS  It kills BMP-3 pretty easily but I really doubt 80mm can do the same though it's just off the cuff opinion not based on testing.

PS Sorry, I didn't track the exact progress as rough estimates were enough to answer the question I had back than.

PPS I was testing to understand what effect should be considered satisfactory to stop expending precious ammo. So my conclusion was an M-kill is a VERY good result for 155mm precision vs T-90. Yes, 155mm can kill a T-90 but it's not that often to really plan for it.

Edited March 23, 2021 by IMHO

[IMHO]

On 3/21/2021 at 11:46 PM, Bil Hardenberger said:

…at least the smoke from the burning tank should mask two of the three tanks which are following

Interesting. Does the smoke from the burning vehicles obscure both IR and "normal" vision or just the latter?

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Twenty-First & Twenty-Second Minutes – Beyond Here, There be Dragons

“Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver.  The greater the General, the more he contributes to maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter.”

Winston Churchill

 

There was a second T-62 in Dolbach, and this one caught one of 2nd Platoon's tanks.. after two penetrations...

On my far left with the delay force, Warren's T-64B across the map caught one of my M-113s trying to withdraw and took it out with one round.

It's obvious now that this Soviet force has taken the bait and is pushing into my Scout teams, obviously trying to go on an APC killing spree.  Note my Tank Section 1 (1st Platoon) is moving up carefully.. if they are spotted Warren hasn't shown any reaction. 

The Soviets are leading with their tanks... oh joy... well my lead 3rd platoon Dragon team takes a quick shot (note this took about 10 seconds from spot to launch).  

The result.. another burning T-62.

This team was heroic.. firing a LAW at a BMP, which alas went high (you can see the rocket just above the BMP)...

...but also a 40mm HEDP round which hits and penetrates!  The BMP was withdrawing as the turn ran down. 

This team has another T-62 in its sights for next turn... if that damned Dragon can finish reloading before they eat an HE round!

Tank Section 1 is closing in... note how I am staying close to the trees to remain out of the LOS of that damned T-64B across the valley.  I'm curious to see Warren's reaction when he notices these guys coming up his rear.  I really hope he didn't leave a couple dismounted teams in these trees...  ..but I think this is an armored attack.. I have seen no hint of any dismounts (other than the dismounted tank crew)... still.

Oh.. and my support started to arrive.    Including my mortars and 155mm battery falling on Dolbach.. and my two AH-1s arrived in zone... though I do lose one to a MANPAD.

Oh!  And some great news!  My Cluster munitions Battery freed up and I was able to plot them this turn too.. it'll arrive in six minutes.  

After looking at my options with the Short route.. now that my tanks are here.. the less I am liking it. I wanted to drive up the flank of the enemy BMPs in the treeline overlooking my right.. but that looks hazardous.  

So.. remaining ever flexible, I have decided to pull all of the 3rd Platoon tanks out of the stream bed and push them around the right and deep onto the Soviet held road.  Note the smoke rounds used to block Warren's eyes on this movement.  Once they get on the road there will be very little left to stop them.  On my right (Warren's left) he has two damaged T-64As and some BMPs.  But this type of fight will not be to the BMP's advantage, it'll be fast and close.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Bil Hardenberger

[Rice]

@Bil HardenbergerHow do you plan to use the M113A1s? I imagine carry your infantry into the objective. You could also attempt to knock out a BMP-1 with them haha

[Bil Hardenberger]

1 minute ago, Rice said:

@Bil HardenbergerHow do you plan to use the M113A1s? I imagine carry your infantry into the objective. You could also attempt to knock out a BMP-1 with them haha

In this fight, they are bait.. they are only effective against enemy infantry, BMPs would eat them for lunch. 

My hope is that Warren gets target fixated and fails to notice the two M-60s stalking him and also continues to push into my Dragon's Lair.

[Rice]

1 minute ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

BMPs would eat them for lunch.

It's going to be fun rolling around with the BMP-1, because of SF2 people massively underestimate them. CMA players will understand that the ATGM and 70mm main armament are no joke haha. 

[IICptMillerII]

Hell yeah, the deep penetration!

This is getting more exciting with every update. Fantastic stuff!

[Bradley]

Bil, any chance your right flanking force will show sound contacts before they’re in prime position. Maybe too late for that though if not already recognized. 

[Bil Hardenberger]

14 minutes ago, Bradley said:

Bil, any chance your right flanking force will show sound contacts before they’re in prime position. Maybe too late for that though if not already recognized. 

I’m sure he’ll hear or see them coming at some point.  But that’s expected. It’s what he does with that information that matters. 

[Holien]

Superb updates and really showing the game off well. Thankyou.

Good to see you modifying plans when things don't go as expected.

The Weekend has come early!!!!

[riptides]

Bil, are you really just going for steel points now, or are you still looking at getting a bite at the donut?

[Bil Hardenberger]

21 minutes ago, riptides said:

Bil, are you really just going for steel points now, or are you still looking at getting a bite at the donut?

No donut for me, I'm on a diet...  

I am looking to kill or maim all of his armor.  Then I will call in the infantry to clear the town and make it safe.  That is NOT a Cavalry Troop's job.   

Bil