U.S. Thread - CM Cold War - BETA AAR - Battle of Dolbach Heights 1980

[IMHO]

@Bil Hardenberger, @Pete Wenman, is the map itself - without the OOB - available anywhere? I mean CM readable format.

[IMHO]

23 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

What is Bil planning?

Tanks at the hamlet on the right flank feel just fine. So you can try to move your formidable tank force on the right flank all the way to the Soviet hill and go up a bit. At least on Google Earth and original Weyhers topo there's a covered ravine one can use. And up the Soviet hill you may find a position that both dominates from above direct avenues of attack on the town over the center yet stays untouchable to Soviet armor at their current positions up the hill. Soviets will be vulnerable to flanking fire if they move directly. And should they try to go over the hill to dislodge you from above they will be clearly seen both against the skyline for your tanks below, and being on the move they will have a disadvantage in spotting to your TOW guys. Easy kills IMO.

Edited February 26, 2021 by IMHO

[Combatintman]

1 hour ago, IMHO said:

@Bil Hardenberger, @Pete Wenman, is the map itself - without the OOB - available anywhere? I mean CM readable format.

It is CM readable obviously but is not publicly available.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

22 hours ago, SgtHatred said:

Capitalist trickery.

What he said. 

[Mastiff]

On 2/24/2021 at 5:18 PM, Bil Hardenberger said:

Eight Minute - BDA and Some Movements

I thought you'd be interested in seeing the battle damage from the two Saggers that hit M-150(1/4).  Very low on the hull front.. I am not usually that careless when checking Hull Down.. lesson learned!

M-150(1/5) is reversing slightly to improve its position... note that in the following image it looks like this vehicle can spot a T-64 on EAA-1.. but it cannot target it.. so with this reverse move he will pull out of any view on EAA1.

 

2nd Platoon

I have made some decisions based on what I have seen so far and with the Soviets movements and unit placement.. also remember I am getting my second and final reinforcement in two minutes. 

With what you have seen so far in this AAR as a guide, and after reading the following.. lets play a game, try to answer the following... 

What is Bil planning?   

• Clue the First, I am shifting all four of the 2nd Platoon tanks to my right:

• Clue the second, the two M-150s in this platoon are moving forward... note the location of their covered arcs:

Looking forward to reading your guesses... it'll be a few turns before I confirm or deny them, but light it up folks.

Bil

shouldn't the engines on those 113's stop the sagers? Im mean look, thats a lot of metal?

[chuckdyke]

@Mastiff They can penetrate 430 mm of steel armor. I wouldn't like to be behind that engine block. 

[Ultradave]

9 hours ago, Mastiff said:

shouldn't the engines on those 113's stop the sagers? Im mean look, thats a lot of metal?

They do. They cut right through the aluminum skin of the vehicle like it's not there and explode when they hit the engine

 

[Holien]

I kinda of expected bigger holes on impact? Is it an engine limitation?

I guess it is, better to have small holes than none.

 

 

[Baneman]

16 minutes ago, Holien said:

I kinda of expected bigger holes on impact? Is it an engine limitation?

I guess it is, better to have small holes than none.

 

 

Most ( possibly all, but I don't know ) ATGM's use HEAT warheads, hence the small hole - from the hot jet which penetrates. 

You'll see the same small holes from Bazooka/Schreck/Panzerfaust/HEAT ammo in the WWII titles.

[Bil Hardenberger]

HEAT warhead damage on an M-113... the game has it pretty much spot on:

 

[Bil Hardenberger]

On 2/25/2021 at 12:17 AM, Sprocketman said:

[snip]

On another note, have you considered making fresh updates to your Battle Drill blog? It just so happens that today marks one year and a day (I think) since your last update. I really enjoy the content on your blog, and would love to see it expanded upon, your time/interest level permitting.

For example, I'd be interested in seeing you finish the Rifle Platoon series. I also think a more in depth tutorial explaining how to analyze a map, things to look for/identifying approaches/key terrain features, etc. would be very useful. Men like yourself with formal military training may take it for granted, but for us civilians it's not always as obvious to look at a map and understand all the tactical implications of the geography. At least that's something I have a lot of trouble wrapping my head around.

Thanks again, and good luck in defending Dolbach.

Thank you, definitely appreciate the kind words.

Re: the Blog.. yeah.. been kinda busy, eh?    Still you are right in saying that I need to finish up that Rifle Platoon series.

On 2/25/2021 at 12:51 AM, The_MonkeyKing said:

Couple of tips for you and any readers:

1. Why do your tank hunter hulldown commands have "hunt" at the end? This risks going to far in the hulldown. Units don't spot fast enough to also get in perfect hulldown against the thing they spot. 

[snip]

I have written abut hull down and how to get into hull down manually on my blog:  Hull Down Post  

Edited February 26, 2021 by Bil Hardenberger

[ekobloc]

Just popping in with a simple thanks Bil for your work on bringing CMCW to us, blog and for these AARs that are always so extensively written and obviously take a lot of your free time. Looking forward to the future round write-ups.

Using those M-150s as bait I wonder?

Edited February 26, 2021 by ekobloc
typo

[The_MonkeyKing]

14 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

I have written abut hull down and how to get into hull down manually on my blog:  Hull Down Post  

haha, It seems I was trying to teach the master here. Good guide!

[Bil Hardenberger]

Ninth Minute

 “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”

The Art of War, Sun Tzu

 

M-150(1/5) and the BMP-1PK on NAI2 spotted each other about the same time, though the M-150 fired its TOW a second or so earlier than the BMP fired its AT-4…

Scratch one more BMP.

 

Early this turn in Tank Section 1, M-60A1(RISE+) (1/8) spots another Recon BMP-1P…

…it does take a quick shot…

…which falls well short.. and then he loses the spot.

Right towards the end of the turn the same tank spots a T-64B moving toward the clump of trees ahead of NAI3.  Again it fires, but this time, the turn expires before the round can travel the entire distance.  Damn!  

We'll find out how that goes next turn, don't go too far from your computer.

T-64B, beauty shot:

Two of my M-106 mortar carriers began sending their spotting rounds this turn… this fire is intended to block the approach into Dolbach.

 

For those of you playing, the “What is Bil planning?” Sweepstakes... another clue: I have moved my FO up to the ridge and dismounted.  What can that mean?   

Finally, I wanted to give you a good overview of the map and an update on my enemy Order of battle reconstruction:

After some research the Soviet Recon Company is composed of the following:

Company CO on a BRM-1

• x2 Recon Platoons – each composed of:
  • Recon Platoon Leader on a BMP-1K
  • x2 Scout Teams, each on a BMP-1

So far I have identified the following Recon Company units:

• Two BMP-1PKs, the Platoon Leaders’ rides (as of this turn, both have been knocked out)
• Three of the four BMP-1Ps the Scout Teams ride on (one has been knocked out)
• This turn I also identify the Company CO’s BRM-1

So the intelligence picture of what I am up against is becoming clearer every turn.  Following is the current SITMAP.  Note the enemy Support by Fire (SBF) positions and the central position taken up this turn by one Mech Infantry platoon, three BMP-1s moved forward of the overpass and disgorged their infantry.  I suspect the infantry will be moving on foot to Dolbach while the BMPs remain in an overwatch position.

Warren's weight is on his right (my left) as his SBF near NAI2 has lost two of it's three BMPs.  The SBF position near NAI3 has lost one BMP-1PK, but has been reinforced by the Company CO's BRM.  

I expect Warren to push hard toward Dolbach shortly.. and that is a fight I cannot participate in as I don't have the infantry he does.  So I have something else in mind...    CLUES GALORE!!! Have fun.

For reference:

Edited February 28, 2021 by Bil Hardenberger

[MikeyD]

A small technical note. The screenshots show the game being played using 'movie lighting' (Alt-M). BFC added that feature awhile ago after players complained that real-world coloring seemed unrealistic after growing up on a diet of old newsreels and war movies with  purposefully washed-out colors. Example A: Saving Private Ryan

[BletchleyGeek]

17 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

CLUES GALORE!!! Have fun.

Cheers for the overview picture, I was confused by the nap of the earth shots. 

I can see you are going to play the man, not the ball. Let's see if that man is too fast to let himself be injured.

 

 

[dr funkenstein]

2 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”

The Art of War, Sun Tzu

Loving the AAR, Bil! Really enjoying it. Thanks for all your effort.

If you don't mind my asking, which translation of Sun Tzu are you using? Griffith? This one sounds simple and to the point. Others are a bit too "clumsy" and complicated for my taste.

[Bil Hardenberger]

9 minutes ago, dr funkenstein said:

Loving the AAR, Bil! Really enjoying it. Thanks for all your effort.

If you don't mind my asking, which translation of Sun Tzu are you using? Griffith? This one sounds simple and to the point. Others are a bit too "clumsy" and complicated for my taste.

Thanks Doc.

As for the quote... beats me, I grabbed this one from Goodreads.com.  I suspect their collection is from various translations.

Bil

Edited February 28, 2021 by Bil Hardenberger

[Vacillator]

I'm also loving this Bil, as always.

I'm learning a lot from your initial assessment process and the ability to hold forces back until needed, as opposed to my usual 'get it all up there as quick as possible' (hmmm, that doesn't sound quite right, but you know what I mean ).

Good luck and looking forward to your victory!

[chuckdyke]

A Hollywood War Movie Formation is a Purple Heart Formation. In regards @MikeyD picture, I know they wanted to frame every actor. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by chuckdyke

[Lethaface]

18 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

For those of you playing, the “What is Bil planning?” Sweepstakes... another clue: I have moved my FO up to the ridge and dismounted.  What can that mean?   

 

Incoming!!! 

 

[AlexUK]

On 2/26/2021 at 1:47 PM, Bil Hardenberger said:

Thank you, definitely appreciate the kind words.

Re: the Blog.. yeah.. been kinda busy, eh?    Still you are right in saying that I need to finish up that Rifle Platoon series.

I have written abut hull down and how to get into hull down manually on my blog:  Hull Down Post  

Hi Bil

I'm always a bit suspicious of the targeting line text, as I think it measures to a fixed height above the ground? But it seems to work for you. How do you work out Hull down to buildings, as I am not sure the targeting line is a possibility (might be mistaken).

 

Loving the AAR

[Lethaface]

18 hours ago, BletchleyGeek said:

Cheers for the overview picture, I was confused by the nap of the earth shots. 

I can see you are going to play the man, not the ball. Let's see if that man is too fast to let himself be injured.

 

 

Indeed, that last overview picture helps to get a better grasp of the battlefield. Although I'm still not sure whether there are any nice positions on @Bil Hardenberger left flank, which offer visibility below.

Noting the amount of artillery he brought I guess he's going to turn Dolbach into a collection of shell craters. That will keep the USSR infantry occupied without Bil needing to interfere for a while. 

Still think the plan is to use the crests of the hill as a positional advantage against the advancing Red armor hordes, while cluster artillery degrades their overwatch / SBF positions (and or smoke to blind them). 

Or in short use the advantages available to him and destroy most of the enemy AFVs, allowing to follow up with combined arms into what's left of Dolbach. 

[Bil Hardenberger]

Tenth Minute

“As long as I breathe, I attack."

Bernard Hinault

 

A few key events this turn:

• M-60A1(RISE+) (1/8) missed the shot it took at the end of last turn, that round going long.  But it fired an additional four times at the T-64B it spotted last turn.. connecting on two.

That had to hurt.. I know those hits caused at least one casualty.  Its possible this tank is a gun kill, and that's as good as knocking it out as far as I'm concerned.  Still, I am not counting on that.

• M-150 (1/5) - I'm an idiot... in he hope of bringing the final (as far as I can tell) BMP near NAI2 under fire, I crept this tank hunter forward to take up a Hull Down spot with visibility of this spot... but I failed to mask the M-150 from the rest of the field.

It was spotted by both a BMP-1 and the T-64B (from the previous vignette) in their battle position.  First the BMP fired it's Sagger:

Then the T-64B fired as well...

The T-64's shell fell short, but the BMP must have had a gifted Sagger gunner, as I swear that missile skimmed inches off the ground...

...but alas it flew true...

 

Finally, for the group playing my "What's Bil Planning?" game... I am moving 2nd Platoon's Scouts to the left side of the field, as shown... what are they up to?  Hmmm  

I promise I won't keep you in suspense much longer, and will reveal what I am thinking with one of my next two posts.

Bil

 

 

[SgtHatred]

21 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

 

The T-64's shell fell short, but the BMP must have had a gifted Sagger gunner, as I swear that missile skimmed inches off the ground...

...but alas it flew true...

 

In CMSF2 I've noticed that the AT-3 Sagger can follow terrain much like a cruise missile, able to strike targets even after they have moved behind a hill out of LOS by following over and then back down. I'm not sure if it's just a glitch in the game or simulating a crack MCLOS gunner using the force, but they are extremely dangerous on hilly terrain.