John Kettler Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) One of my CoC colleagues found and posted this British Army 1983 training film on fighting the Soviet Advanced Guard. In my 11+ years as a Soviet Threat Analyst, I never saw anything like this. It's fantastic, and that's an understatement. This sort of thing was my bread and butter at Hughes Aircraft Company Missile Systems Group, since we built both TOW and Maverick and were involved in work on what eventually was the Javelin, as well as deep strike systems, such as Assault Breaker and WASP. Regards, John Kettler Edited November 4, 2020 by John Kettler 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, John Kettler said: One of my CoC colleagues found and posted this British Army 1983 video on fighting the Soviet Advanced Guard. In my 11+ years as a Soviet Threat Analyst, I never saw anything like this. It's fantastic, and that's an understatement. +1. Thanks, John. Interesting stuff. CM Fulda Gap!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 Here's the one on artillery effects. Sobering! Also, this was done before US shoots done Soviet style shockingly revealed the Soviet norms for destroying AFVs, tiny as they were by US ammo expenditure figures, were in fact correct. FA of 150 mm and up is far more lethal than we imagined vs tanks. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Very useful, John. Good to see how the Soviet doctrine works and what units are in what part of the attack, how recon is done etc. Whoever directed it knows his stuff. Better than some Hollywood pics. Saw this interesting one as well: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) Amazing videos. The '83 one coincidentally was the same year as Able Archer which spooked the Soviers in Eastern Europe enormously. I found this super document which ties together Russian doctrine from a variety of sources: The Russian Way of War Edited November 5, 2020 by Sulman I keep foretting this isn't phpbb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Ah yes - the training films of my youth, some were very good indeed, others were positively dreadful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 "Charley, your my grenade chucker" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 14 hours ago, Combatintman said: Ah yes - the training films of my youth, some were very good indeed, others were positively dreadful. Ah the good old days when the Soviet MMR was the bogyman and their chariot of choice was the BTR60 PB. Nothing like a yellow handbag though to remove any concerns ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IICptMillerII Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 19 hours ago, Sulman said: Amazing videos. The '83 one coincidentally was the same year as Able Archer which spooked the Soviers in Eastern Europe enormously. I found this super document which ties together Russian doctrine from a variety of sources: The Russian Way of War This is a great document by Grau, but it is important to note that it is about modern Russian doctrine, not Soviet. There are significant differences between the two. Modern Russian doctrine is quite different than Soviet doctrine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 7 hours ago, IICptMillerII said: This is a great document by Grau, but it is important to note that it is about modern Russian doctrine, not Soviet. There are significant differences between the two. Modern Russian doctrine is quite different than Soviet doctrine. Yep, fair enough. I found it actually looking for just about anything on how to fight as the Russians would, just to try out these things in the safety of my computer chair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) On 11/5/2020 at 1:01 AM, Sulman said: Amazing videos. The '83 one coincidentally was the same year as Able Archer which spooked the Soviers in Eastern Europe enormously. I found this super document which ties together Russian doctrine from a variety of sources: The Russian Way of War Interresting videos and infos about tactic in the 80' where some of us were in these real situation... Edited November 6, 2020 by 3j2m7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 18 hours ago, Pete Wenman said: Ah the good old days when the Soviet MMR was the bogyman and their chariot of choice was the BTR60 PB. Nothing like a yellow handbag though to remove any concerns ! The breakfast of champions ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) For those not familiar with the 'yellow handbag' cultural reference ... https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?acc=2018-04-3-1 Made up that this is from the National Army Museum, although in my day 4 Armoured Division was Herford-based. Edited November 6, 2020 by Combatintman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Combatintman said: For those not familiar with the 'yellow handbag' cultural reference ... https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?acc=2018-04-3-1 Made up that this is from the National Army Museum, although in my day 4 Armoured Division was Herford-based. Now that is cool - kudos to the NAM for being on point, and now I'm feeling thirsty P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Many years ago I heard a very odd story from a guy in Tuscon AZ who claimed to be former Special Forces during the Vietnam war. He claimed there were full-up tank battles along the DMZ that the Pentagon had hushed up (the only tank-on-tank battle we know of between USA and North Vietnam was Ben Het). He painted a lurid picture of terrified infantry cowering in foxholes while opposing tanks violently had at each other. He even included an oddly specific detail about one M48 tank returning to camp only to discover they had been holed right through the lower hull beneath the turret basket and hadn't been aware of it! There's three options for this story. Either... 1) the guy was full of hot air. 2) the guy was describing an engagement between NVA and ARVN, not US forces. 3) the Pentagon kept the incident under wraps because we weren't coming off quite 'victorious' enough for publication. M48 vs T55 is not a guaranteed victory. I don't know if M48's 90mm APDS could penetrate the front of a T55 at range. My point being, I doubt that success was guaranteed for NATO through most of the Cold War. That's the reason for the nuclear tripwire defense. Up until the mid-80s NATO was pretty sure they'd lose if they didn't go nuclear. I do enjoy talking cold war after so long. I was a cold war baby, grew up down the road from a SAC B52 base. Ah, the good old days of fearing imminent nuclear incineration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) MikeyD, Did some digging, and NVA T-54s were destroyed by ARVN M41 Walker Bulldogs and M48A3 Pattons. In one battle I'm trying to recall, the ARVNs were killing T-54s from so far away (well outside of their own effective range) the T-54 crews thought they were in an antitank minefield. This juicy morsel was from intercepted radio traffic from panicked TCs. Offhand, I don't recall how much better protected the T-55 may've been than the T-55. Regards, John Kettler Edited November 13, 2020 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 Gah! Better protected than the T-54. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roter Stern Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Perhaps should've posted it here instead, but The Bovington Tank Museum has a video series of on Soviet cold-war era tanks: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 https://ospreypublishing.com/store/military-history/series-books/duel/walker-bulldog-vs-t-54 I have this book but never read it. Will track it down and see what they say about the 76mm penetrating T-54s at range. I know in Steel Beasts, and AMX-13 with a French 76mm has to be very close to penetrate an early T-55. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozowans Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 11/4/2020 at 6:01 PM, Sulman said: Amazing videos. The '83 one coincidentally was the same year as Able Archer which spooked the Soviers in Eastern Europe enormously. I found this super document which ties together Russian doctrine from a variety of sources: The Russian Way of War Does anyone know of something like this but for Cold War Soviet doctrine? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) On 11/6/2020 at 1:43 PM, MikeyD said: My point being, I doubt that success was guaranteed for NATO through most of the Cold War. That's the reason for the nuclear tripwire defense. Up until the mid-80s NATO was pretty sure they'd lose if they didn't go nuclear. Long ago an ex-armour officer told me NATO were terrified in the early 60s of the sheer volume of pretty good tanks (T-55) the Soviets could field in the Fulda Gap, but this capability ('tank gap' with apologies to Dr. strangelove) was mitigated fairly quickly with qualitative measures on NATO's behalf like HESH and Chad Krupstahl's finest. Also the shine was taken off the T-series reputation fairly quickly in the middle east against numerically inferior opposition. Well trained crews in good equipment would be more than a match for the Soviet threat. Israel's contribution to modern tank doctrine is understated. Edited November 23, 2020 by Sulman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Bozowans said: Does anyone know of something like this but for Cold War Soviet doctrine? You mean these badgers ... https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-1.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-2.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf So to answer your question ... yes 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozowans Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 11/23/2020 at 3:08 AM, Combatintman said: You mean these badgers ... https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-1.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-2.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf So to answer your question ... yes Oh these are really cool. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 No worries @Bozowans - I've had the hard copy versions of these on my bookshelf for years, an extremely good resource. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) On 11/4/2020 at 11:39 PM, Erwin said: Saw this interesting one as well: [Magistral] Nice find, some uniquely Afghan war stuff in that one. This one has some good footage too, including what appears to be a Scud SRBM battery without missiles (32:48): Just wish it had subtitles too. Edited November 27, 2020 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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