Is this family over?

[ncc1701e]

Given the release of CM Final Blitzkrieg, I am wondering if this is the end of CMBN in terms of new content. Is there any new module or vehicule/battle pack to expect?

Going on the store, is it planned to have the CM Battle for Normandy BIG BUNDLE containing also the Battle Pack 1?

Thank you

[JoMac]

No, Silly...They still have a Module (or Scenario/BP) that will include the French Forces, and that Whatchamacallit Operation in Southern France.  

Joe

Edited May 9, 2016 by JoMc67

[Michael Emrys]

6 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

...that Whatchamacallit Operation in Southern France. 

Originally called Anvil, later changed at Churchill's insistence to Dragoon.

Michael

[Trooper117]

 

Nothings over till the fat lady sings baby!

[womble]

The only thing missing from CMBN-MG is the Free French, and they used the same TO&E as one of the other (US? GB? I can't remember) major combatants and used equipment from them so you can already do everything but the names... French might be a "vehicle" pack... But there won't be any more modules.

[Rinaldi]

US by this point in the war. There's little organizational differences with the US, yeah. A bit more hodge-podge equipment with regards to things like helmets and P17s/1903s in lieu of M1s, but otherwise they were structured like US formations and fought like US formations. In fact, off the top of my head the only marked departure from the US the Free French had was that every division had full-battalion reconnaissance units. 

I'm hoping we'll see more Battle Packs, JonS's has been mighty fun thus far. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by Rinaldi

[Michael Emrys]

10 hours ago, womble said:

The only thing missing from CMBN-MG is the Free French, and they used the same TO&E as one of the other (US? GB? I can't remember) major combatants and used equipment from them...

The French were supplied and mostly organized like the Americans, as Rinaldi has noted. The Poles (also missing thus far IIRC) on the other hand were equipped and organized like the British/Commonwealth and under their command. I'm not sure, but I think the same is also true of the Belgian and Dutch contingents, but these were quite small and I don't expect them to be explicitly represented in the game.

Michael

[Warts 'n' all]

M.E. is spot on about the Belgian and Dutch contingents being equipped by us Limeys. I think that the only French regular troops equipped by, and serving alongside the British in Normandy, were the commandos who landed on Sword beach.

[A Canadian Cat]

5 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

The Poles (also missing thus far IIRC) on the other hand were equipped and organized like the British/Commonwealth and under their command.

No the Poles are there - added in the Common Wealth module.

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, IanL said:

No the Poles are there - added in the Common Wealth module.

Okay, good to know. I have never played with them, so I couldn't remember.

Michael

[StieliAlpha]

Don't forget the early war 1940 in France. THOSE were the days. ?

Seriously, there would be sufficient content left for the next 100 years (on the BFC time scale).

But nothing planned, as I understand.

[Atago]

I wish they'd have started with 1940, but then again the Normandy invasion and follow on campaign certainly would draw more interest and money.  Getting the horse animations working could be a challenge - and motorcycle troops.  RT is the one odd one, seems that starting with 1941 would make sense there, but the reason for 1944 may well be that it takes less work - the German's were largely the same as in the other CM titles.

[Michael Emrys]

2 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

Don't forget the early war 1940 in France.

I can't. 

Seriously, I would love to see what BFC could make of that period.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

3 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

Don't forget the early war 1940 in France.

I would love to see that.  That would be another family all together though.  I cannot imagine them adding that onto CMBN.

[womble]

A thought for an improvement: allowing the importation of lists of names to replace the list of names randomly assigned at need in the interface. There must at least be different ones for the existing nationalities, and allowing the replacement "a la mod" of those lists on perhaps a "tag" basis would go a long way to letting the Free French come out to play without any other new content. There are royalty-free lists out there that could easily be appropriated for the purpose.

[StieliAlpha]

1 hour ago, IanL said:

I would love to see that.  That would be another family all together though.  I cannot imagine them adding that onto CMBN.

I must admit, I never really understood this "family thing" anyway.

But it's true, I don't care what happens software wise behind the scenes...

[womble]

1 hour ago, StieliAlpha said:

I must admit, I never really understood this "family thing" anyway.

But it's true, I don't care what happens software wise behind the scenes...

Basically, the "Family thing" is down to the architecture. There's only so much "stuff" (terrain types, trees, buildings, TO&E amongst probably other elements) that can economically be carried around by the engine, and the architecture choices made (out of some unpalatable ones available at the advent of CMSF, so back in, what, 2004?) mean that there comes a point where a game has as much "stuff" in it as can be handled. At which point a new game based on the same heuristics, algorithms and procedures, with some of the old "stuff" taken out to make room for new "stuff" has to be created. Much of the "stuff" is common between families, but some is not.

At least that's my very sketchy understanding from Steve's posts on the matter.

If and when CMn+1 arrives with a different graphics engine base, there will be different architecture choices to be made and Steve has indicated in the past that the "Family/Module/[Battle|Vehicle|Whatever]pack" structure isn't necessarily a direction they would go in again if alternatives were available. But for now, it's what we're stuck with.

[MikeyD]

Another thing to consider is economics. A subject faaaar outside any of our fields of vision. BFC's done lots of 'modules' and one supposes they know what to expect when they release a new one. But 'vehicle packs' and 'battle packs' were a new undertaking. They've done 1 each so far. Did sales meet expectations? Did it earn back the cost of production and expand the player base? That falls under the heading of 'trade secrets' and they never spill the beans on that sort of stuff. Whatever the answer, it'll no doubt play a role in any decisions to produce more. A pessimist might *imagine* them thinking "Wow, that was a mistake we're not going to repeat!" An optimist might *imagine* them thinking "Wow, if future releases perform as well as the first we ought to start cranking out more ASAP!" 

[kevinkin]

I think Operation Dragoon can be done fairly well with Fortress Italy. Those forces did come from the Mediterranean in large part. Some have even used FI to fight in Tunisia. You can design some real time tank battles (mostly hypothetical) that can be quite entertaining. Not perfect, but we may wait a long time to to have dedicated modules or stand alone's for these theaters. 

Kevin

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by kevinkin

[PhilM]

16 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

Don't forget the early war 1940 in France. THOSE were the days. ?

Seriously, there would be sufficient content left for the next 100 years (on the BFC time scale).

But nothing planned, as I understand.

 

14 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

I can't. 

Seriously, I would love to see what BFC could make of that period.

Michael

 

13 hours ago, IanL said:

I would love to see that.  That would be another family all together though.  I cannot imagine them adding that onto CMBN.

 

Me too. I put a request for a new family for that period / location to Steve as an aside in a helpdesk ticket conversation about a (completely unrelated) issue: he was carefully unspecific, but he didn't tell me "Never!", so I'm nursing a hope that one day ...

[Thewood1]

I don't think its any way close to being realistic that we should expect development beyond sequels, modules, and packs for the current engine.  Its literally taking years to develop new games and modules.  We still have modules in the wings for all the games except CMBN, and that is supposed to get at least one pack.  Looking at modules for CMFI, CMRT, CMBS and CMFB, there are a couple years of work right there.  Now add in that we are also expecting BFC to put out at least 1, and possibly 2, east front games plus modules, and we are looking at 3-4 years of development left to round out CM 3.0.  I would expect CM 4.0 to be mixed in there somehow, or maybe an entirely new engine.  That probably adds a year or two to the curve.

Unless BFC goes out and hires a bunch programmers and 3D artists, we'll be lucky if they can maintain the above pace, let alone to go after a game like France 1940 that isn't even being considered right now.

[Trooper117]

Never mind the 'Final Blitzkrieg'... I would buy the 'First Blitzkrieg 1940' in an instant.

[Michael Emrys]

21 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Never mind the 'Final Blitzkrieg'... I would buy the 'First Blitzkrieg 1940' in an instant.

Sure, but in the first place, designing one would entail far more work on BFC's part—at least an extra year and maybe two—and I am sure that they would prefer to keep eating during that period of time. Secondly, while you and I and some undetermined number of others may lust after an early war game or three, I suspect that we are definitely in a minority. Unless Hollywood/Pinewood begin turning out a series of blockbuster movies set in the 1939-1940 period, the majority of the population that provides the game buying market probably doesn't know diddly about that period and couldn't care less. I would expect BFC's entry into that market to be a cautious one indeed. Too bad for us.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

2 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Sure, but in the first place, designing one would entail far more work on BFC's part—at least an extra year and maybe two—and I am sure that they would prefer to keep eating during that period of time. Secondly, while you and I and some undetermined number of others may lust after an early war game or three, I suspect that we are definitely in a minority. Unless Hollywood/Pinewood begin turning out a series of blockbuster movies set in the 1939-1940 period, the majority of the population that provides the game buying market probably doesn't know diddly about that period and couldn't care less. I would expect BFC's entry into that market to be a cautious one indeed. Too bad for us.

Stop shedding the harsh light of reality on us.  We were all happy holding out hope that one day we might get an early war game but now my hope has drained away.

[Doc844]

3 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Sure, but in the first place, designing one would entail far more work on BFC's part—at least an extra year and maybe two—and I am sure that they would prefer to keep eating during that period of time. Secondly, while you and I and some undetermined number of others may lust after an early war game or three, I suspect that we are definitely in a minority. Unless Hollywood/Pinewood begin turning out a series of blockbuster movies set in the 1939-1940 period, the majority of the population that provides the game buying market probably doesn't know diddly about that period and couldn't care less. I would expect BFC's entry into that market to be a cautious one indeed. Too bad for us.

Michael

Not bashing Yanks, there are plenty of videos like this from around Europe and UK,

but THIS might explain some things.

https://youtu.be/pn4MYguk3IY

Scary stuff when Education is FREE.

P.S. again not bashing yanks or wanting to start a flame war or whatever, the video links to other european countries and the UK i just find it amazing that people can be that thick.