Lille Fiskerby Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Some suggestions Bil:Halftracks with the 81 mm mortar.M36 TDJumbo shermans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Some suggestions Bil:Halftracks with the 81 mm mortar.M36 TDJumbo shermansWell, you'll get your wish with a couple of those 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 BFC ought to pay royalties to Google Earth. The maps they're producing these days are simply astounding. Half of the fun of the game is now coping with real world LOF distances and terrain features. It gives gameplay the sort of feel that even the best fictional 'game optimized' maps can't provide. You ought to spend a few minutes Google Earth Street Viewing up and down the village of Recogne, Belgium just to get a sense of the terrain before the battle starts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Good idea. Will do. Basing a map on real elevation changes and terrain features is very hard to replicate. Too bad Google Earth doesn't include topographical contours (yet at least). It would make map making even more of a delight. I know there are work arounds, but still. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) METT-T Analysis - Part 1MISSION: Word from higher HQ is to delay and attrit, the enemy if he chooses to attack through my AO, applying stiffer and stiffer resistance as he penetrates the zone. There can be no withdrawal out of this zone, we will hold to the last man or tank.ENEMY: This component of METT-T will evolve throughout the battle. As of now I know almost nothing, but I do expect to see something like the following:Pz Grenadier or Motorized Infantry Battalion (-) - I expect any infantry to be mounted either on trucks or halftracks. Tank Company (-) Expect to see mainly Panther tanks (perhaps two platoons)Expect to see at least one JagdTiger or SturmTiger (Intel says at least one of these is in the area)Light to medium artillery of at least one battery, could be as many as threeAerial photo of a JagdTiger near some trees along a road leading into the AO (it is unknown whether this monster will make an appearance, but intel seems to think it likely(game Note: this is a mockup, I have NOT seen this in game yet):TERRAIN: I will be doing an in-depth terrain analysis in a future post, but for now I wanted to show the type of terrain we are dealing with. The AO is 1.8 km in width and 3.6 km deep.From a high level the terrain appears very flat (looking towards German lines)......but as you move lower it becomes apparent that this ground is dominated by small rises and dips in the ground......though there are some long sight lines, there will be plenty of opportunity to mask movement and positions from enemy observation and fire.AAR Map-01.btt Edited December 6, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Patton to the rescue? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (game Note: this is a mockup, I have NOT seen this in game yet):Well, historically most of those Jagdtiger beasties did break down before seeing any allied tanks so yeh, just because intel spots one doesn't mean you'll ever encounter it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Churchmoor Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Well, you'll get your wish with a couple of those Please take also couple of M24s?Again big thanks to you for making these DARs. They're a great read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Hi Bil. I must have not spotted it if you said it. What is the date? Time of day? Weather report? Any air support? Though the screenshots look overcast and falling snow maybe your actual battle is different?The comic by Bud is set at 3 weeks after the start of the German offensive so I for one am bound to get confused.For CMFB Air Support is it the style that the aircraft enter the battle area and do their thing independently or are they vectored in to a specific target by FO? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Just spent a while "walking" through the battlefield on Google Earth. I can see that there are two ridges on either side of Recogne, which have pretty good overwatch on Cobru and the road into Recogne (the left flank ridge significantly higher than the ridge on the right). Echoing Kohl, what is the visibility like? You don't really want to engage (o be engaged) by German armour over 1,000 meters, you're going lose pretty much every match up. With the very limited (and probably not exact with respect to the actual CM map) feeling I am getting from Google Earth is that your plan of playing an aggressive defense doesn't seem to me to be supported by terrain (and here my interpretation of "aggressive defense" is "spoiling attack"). If Baneman gets some serious AT firepower into Cobru fast, you aren't going to have an easy time approaching undetected and unharmed.But if you catch him while he's developing his attack on the town... that's another story. Edited December 6, 2015 by BletchleyGeek 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 "In depth terrain analysis"??? You want my in depth analysis? The snow's up to my friggin' shins! As always, looking forward to one of Bil's masterpieces. (His AAR's always bring to mind the woman in the red top in that bar in Boston. Ahhh. http://community.battlefront.com/topic/110127-allied-cmbn-market-garden-beta-aar-the-better-beta-beater-reader/?do=findComment&comment=1455314But I digress.I love his analyses. He's like a data-borg. He crafts a beautifully accurate enemy sitrep, then pounces on the first opportunity. Time to get the popcorn ready.Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Just spent a while "walking" through the battlefield on Google Earth. I can see that there are two ridges on either side of Recogne, which have pretty good overwatch on Cobru and the road into Recogne (the left flank ridge significantly higher than the ridge on the right). Echoing Kohl, what is the visibility like? You don't really want to engage (o be engaged) by German armour over 1,000 meters, you're going lose pretty much every match up. With the very limited (and probably not exact with respect to the actual CM map) feeling I am getting from Google Earth is that your plan of playing an aggressive defense doesn't seem to me to be supported by terrain (and here my interpretation of "aggressive defense" is "spoiling attack"). If Baneman gets some serious AT firepower into Cobru fast, you aren't going to have an easy time approaching undetected and unharmed.But if you catch him while he's developing his attack on the town... that's another story. Miquel, to be honest I'm not sure how closely the in-game map terrain matches the real world elevations. I will be doing a full analysis and pinning down the lay of the land as I will have to deal with it. I don't remember seeing the ridges you mention, but we will see. Game ststus: still waiting for Baneman to finish his purchases so I can make mine. Edited December 6, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I made this map. The map should line up with the actual terrain. I used a period map (which Bil has used as the topo overlay in one of the screens above), as well as modern height values from GE, Bing Maps, and other modern sources.That said, some things need to be adjusted for keeping roads straight, etc. that make a few features slightly different due to the Editor. The topo map and GE are also not fantastic at subtle changes in height, so there are always a few liberties with gameplay in mind. I don't think you will find much terrain that is completely flat here. It isn't as steep as other battle areas, as well. The Bulge battles weren't all fought on the north shoulder!I also spent a good number of hours in GE in Street View as well, looking at which houses fit the time period (the 1944 map is quite off in various ways in this regard). I think that a "walk" through the map in CM through any of the towns depicted and then one through GE should line up quite well.And bear in mind that the map used here is cut down from a larger one! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Please take also couple of M24s?Again big thanks to you for making these DARs. They're a great read. Mike I've been debating using the Chaffee but I am leaning towards something with a bit better gun. I'll be breaking down my thoughts on force composition and battle plans after I do my OCOKA analysis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Hi Bil. I must have not spotted it if you said it. What is the date? Time of day? Weather report? Any air support? Though the screenshots look overcast and falling snow maybe your actual battle is different?The comic by Bud is set at 3 weeks after the start of the German offensive so I for one am bound to get confused.For CMFB Air Support is it the style that the aircraft enter the battle area and do their thing independently or are they vectored in to a specific target by FO?kohl, it's a QB so this information is pretty generic: date is January, weather is heavy snow and it's cold as hell. I will not be purchasing air support I doubt the weather would let them arrive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I made this map. The map should line up with the actual terrain. I used a period map (which Bil has used as the topo overlay in one of the screens above), as well as modern height values from GE, Bing Maps, and other modern sources.That said, some things need to be adjusted for keeping roads straight, etc. that make a few features slightly different due to the Editor. The topo map and GE are also not fantastic at subtle changes in height, so there are always a few liberties with gameplay in mind. I don't think you will find much terrain that is completely flat here. It isn't as steep as other battle areas, as well. The Bulge battles weren't all fought on the north shoulder!I also spent a good number of hours in GE in Street View as well, looking at which houses fit the time period (the 1944 map is quite off in various ways in this regard). I think that a "walk" through the map in CM through any of the towns depicted and then one through GE should line up quite well.And bear in mind that the map used here is cut down from a larger one!Probably the elevations I was talking about fall out of the map boundaries.Looking forward to the maps! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Bil, Was this shot taken by Henry Fonda while flying through the fog in an Army Piper Cub, engine off, over the sounds of a German armor column...just before being shot down? This doesn't even remotely look like a M-60 painted grey with crosses on the sides. What the hell misinformation is Intel trying to pull here???? Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Bil, This looks like another fantastic showcase. I am very excited seeing all the new equipment, the snow, and the maps. I'll be following your analysis and action with great interest. Looks like Benpark has another winner for a map. When you showed the upper elevation versus the lower elevation it became very clear how things aren't all that flat. And, if you get a Chaffee with Telly Savalas commanding, you'll have to mod all the loot he was accumulating on the tank during his drive through the Ardennes, haha. This battle really looks great. Thanks for agreeing to put this on. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 ...weather is heavy snow...Just to avoid SNAFU confusions, you might want to have a chat with Baneman about that... He thinks differently. If you think it makes a difference, of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just to avoid SNAFU confusions, you might want to have a chat with Baneman about that... He thinks differently. If you think it makes a difference, of course.All I know is that I chose the Heavy Snow option when I set up the QB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just stumbled onto this new forum, what a great map.....Good hunting Bil....(Lurk mode engaged....) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 All I know is that I chose the Heavy Snow option when I set up the QB. Heavy snow weather results in light snow ground condition in QBs. Man, I wish weather and ground condition could be decoupled for QBs. You will never, ever, ever have sun and snow combined in a QB. Sandbox ftw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 It might help if someone went into Baneman's thread and hurried him up a bit.. he must really be second guessing himself with his unit purchase, make a decision already!! .. sigh ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnarly Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 It might help if someone went into Baneman's thread and hurried him up a bit.. he must really be second guessing himself with his unit purchase, make a decision already!! .. sigh ... Its those flurries of heavy and then light snow at his doorstep that are really bogging him down.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 OCOKA TERRAIN ANALYSIS - PART 1OBSERVATION & FIELDS of FIRE - lines of sight on this map are going to be extremely short... especially for a map that appears as flat as it does. Ben has done an incredible job implementing micro terrain in this map. The average LOS is around 500m with occasional ranges out to 700-750m. LOS out past 1 km is very rare on this map. I will have to recheck once I get into the real game to ensure this is still the case,COVER & CONCEALMENT - cover is limited on this map, the urban areas of Recogne and Cobru stand out as do the many wooded areas. Note, most of the wooded areas restrict vehicular movement so that will factor into mobility for both sides. The short ranges and the micro terrain will allow some good concealed positions.OBSTACLES - the main obstacles on the map are the restricted wooded terrain (to vehicles), the close terrain of the urban areas, and the snow which will effect movement and mobility. This is why the road network is so important in this scenario.The following screenshots of the terrain were taken in the scenario editor while I wait for Baneman to complete his purchases:Looking towards the German start zone:Looking into the US defensive zone: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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