A Canadian Cat Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 While I am glad to hear a patch is underway, it seems to me that the problem was fixed in CMFI over a month ago (when the 3.0 patch came out), so I was baffled at why there was no fix for CMRT. I'm not going to comment on game specific issues but when you are developing a product you can choose to release multiple little patches or fewer larger patches to fix customer defects. As a developer being interrupted over and over for fixes is a huge distraction from other tasks. I am *not* saying fixing bugs is unimportant what I *am* saying is it effects productivity. It is more productive (from a single developer's perspective) to work on new features for a while and then work on a series of defect fixes / fix porting for a while. I personally get more done. Period. Both more feature work *and* more bug fixing. From BFCs history they appear to have chosen to release fewer patches with more fixes. What that means is some customers wait longer to get fixes. This time it was / is you. A few years ago it was me next year it will be some one else. It is not a conspiracy, it is not incompetence (the opposite actually). In my opinion this is the correct choice to make when you have a small staff - you cannot afford to sap their productivity because you cannot compensate for that by having a few more programers to pitch in. The company I work for does the opposite - customer issues that need fixes get put into customer hands frequently. Most of those are special builds designed to patch that defect and goes to that one customer (and later other customers if they hit the same problem). After a while we roll those up into something that gets pushed to everyone. The amount of time it takes is astounding. But for your company it is the right choice to make because our business model is based on big $ every year for support and maintenance. In short our customers want *and* pay for more smaller fixes that service their individual needs as the come up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rake Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The patch is in Final Candidate stage, which means that it is very close to release... I started to reply to this early yesterday evening (1930 Zulu), with something smart @$$ like "Guess not!". I started typing, thought the better of it and deleted the post (there are plenty of letters and emails I wish I'd never sent :eek:) because others are doing a good enough job of complaining. From reading the back posts, I see it didn't take long There is a bug that does not allow players to enter single story buildings. It breaks a large number of scenarios, both campaigns, and many quick battle maps. This is the issue that has frustrated me with the long wait... I've been wanting to start the German campaign for several months, but I know I'd get hammered trying to recon the large village on the right without the cover of buildings. East front is far and away my favorite area of the war and it's been hard to step back to CMBN and the bocage. I primarily enjoy fighting with the Americans and the Germans, so I did the next best thing... My Honor is Loyalty as the SS. No offense intended toward our Commonwealth allies;). Still, I miss blowing up T-34/85's and IS-2's. They'll have to do until we see some BT-5's, 7's and T-26's 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIATpunk Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Our inclination is to release the patch with possible TCP WeGo problems I guess I am in the minority but that is how I wish to play the game (and have been trying to without success since RT release). If it's still going to be unstable in the upcoming patch, will you be working on it for a future patch? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I guess I am in the minority but that is how I wish to play the game (and have been trying to without success since RT release). If it's still going to be unstable in the upcoming patch, will you be working on it for a future patch? Here's the problem with things like TCP play. One bug might take us 3-4 days or 3-4 weeks to track down and verify fixed. If we knew it was going to take 3-4 days we'd make everybody wait, even the customers who don't play TCP (they are the majority). But that's just the thing... we have no idea how long it will take. These sorts of bugs are very, very tricky to track down since there are so many red herring (false leads, false positives) due to the crazy nature of hardware, software, and connection variables. Making everybody wait until we fix this isn't a good idea for anybody. It doesn't get you a TCP fix any faster either. Currently we are aware of problems with TCP WeGo (not RealTime) between a Mac and a PC, and minor and recoverable problems sometimes between two PCs or two Macs. Given the number of people that play TCP WeGo in total is small, and the number that play PC vs. Mac is even smaller, it doesn't make sense to hold up release for probably a couple of weeks. We will keep working on the TCP problems no matter what, so that's not an issue. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fry30 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 They each have their place. On some levels, GTOS offers a better single player experience, due to the operational layer and the more flexible AI. When you play single player CM and watch the AI dead pile up in the streets, squad after squad meeting the same fate in the same place, it can be very dispiriting. It doesn't happen all the time of course, but often enough that I really wish BFC would give the single player experience a bit of love. Ditto! What's that? Ten characters minimum... okay, there go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fry30 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 And I believe Togi's point is that Battlefront's priorities seem to be releasing updates and modules (which generate immediate income) instead of releasing patches (which see no immediate income as the recipients have already paid for the game). You can call it paranoia, or you can bite your tongue and claim non-disclosure. Either way, I don't think its a huge leap to scratch your head at the number of upgrades and modules that have been released (such as the vehicle-pack that, according to Steve himself, needs to be priced at $20 per unit to make a profit) and wonder why they haven't spent more time and effort releasing a fix that since August they've promised is right around the corner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkanarki Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 We will keep working on the TCP problems no matter what, so that's not an issue, Steve That was what i wished to hear. Keep up the good work. Tcp realtime lan can run for days without bugs, while tcp wego lan freezes after a minute or two (pc vs pc. Windows 7) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhedgwich Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 And I believe Togi's point is that Battlefront's priorities seem to be releasing updates and modules (which generate immediate income) instead of releasing patches (which see no immediate income as the recipients have already paid for the game). You can call it paranoia, or you can bite your tongue and claim non-disclosure. Either way, I don't think its a huge leap to scratch your head at the number of upgrades and modules that have been released (such as the vehicle-pack that, according to Steve himself, needs to be priced at $20 per unit to make a profit) and wonder why they haven't spent more time and effort releasing a fix that since August they've promised is right around the corner. I have also noticed the Engine upgrade and the Vehicle pack came out before the RT patch.. Which i found very shocking to say the least i have been waiting months for a patch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Tamson Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 As I can't find a changelog anywhere, would it be fair to assume that the fixes that are enclosed with the vehicle pack are fixes for the bugs that were introduced with V3 in CMBN ie the MANPAT area fire etc ? Or is there more? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Pelican Pal: Thanks for the defense. Frankly, I have given up on this board because there are so many _holes around. Sometimes the responses do seem a bit too sharp and mannerless. With regards to the game, I did play around the bug for a while, but I was just running into too many situations where I did strange things because I couldn't enter buildings, so I stopped playing. While I am glad to hear a patch is underway, it seems to me that the problem was fixed in CMFI over a month ago (when the 3.0 patch came out), so I was baffled at why there was no fix for CMRT. Are the DRM issues really that different between the two games? Now BF releases another pay-for product and still no patch. Certainly, having doors barred to your men can lead to mass slaughter. Some players don't plan for that: others expect it. I did not suffer from the building bug, so I have no excuse for my men dying in the open other than their desire to do so to show their devotion to me. I thank them. That bug was particularly hard to recreate, as you've been told, yet it was fixed in one game. Why no fix for CMRT? Maybe THAT particular bug in CMRT has been fixed and there's another reason why the CMRT patch hasn't yet been released? It would be safe to assume that there are differences between CMRT and CMFI and that maybe those differences are complex and might have something to do with it. Maybe. My perspective is that six months is a long time to fix a bug. It either wasn't a high priority, or there was a competence issue. Either way, it makes me reluctant to give BF any more of my money. See what I wrote, above: "Sometimes the responses do seem a bit too sharp and mannerless." Your final statement is to denigrate BFC's competency and/or prioritization. That's uncalled for. Really. If you want polite, informative answers, then a bit less snideness would do wonders. Bugs are a fact of life in complex code. I don't write code, but I play games. I have yet to play any pc game which is bug-free. (Disregarding minesweeper. Yeah, even Solitaire has bugs.) You have a rare bug. It's not BFC's fault. But they are working to fix it. For free. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You can call it paranoia, or you can bite your tongue and claim non-disclosure. Either way, I don't think its a huge leap to scratch your head at the number of upgrades and modules that have been released (such as the vehicle-pack that, according to Steve himself, needs to be priced at $20 per unit to make a profit) and wonder why they haven't spent more time and effort releasing a fix that since August they've promised is right around the corner. Well you can disregard information to the contrary if you like but I can categorically tell you that I have seen no evidence of any kind public or under NDA that indicates to me that BFC have done anything of the sort. Frankly, what Steve, Steve, Ken and I have said should be enough to convince you there is nothing nefarious going on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 A fix to the unsynch problem in tcp turn based lan after loading a save would make two player join the fun again. As have been said earlier; After the load is complete the host computer has its turn already starting to countdown, while the opponent can issue orders for the same turn. The desynch usually starts after 1-2 turns and always happens to the host (example; host 50:45 opponent 51:00). No difference in RT when using save.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Stop there, this is not your child front of you... Really? One would hardly guess that from the constant whining like a three year old that you have exhibited. You were quite within your rights to inquire why there was a delay in the production of the patch, but once it was explained—and it was actually more than once—it became both pointless and annoying to continue in the same complaining voice. You may be operating under the premise that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but sometimes when no amount of grease eliminates the squeak it becomes clear that it is time to get a new wheel. ...this post is not for you to evaluate...it's not your business... I will and always have evaluated anything I damn well please. ...and there is no need to be so aggressive under your politeness mask. It is astonishingly hypocritical of you to complain about aggressiveness given your posting history. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't get why this is so hard for some people to understand... The patch isn't released yet because they haven't fixed the "can't enter buildings" bug. And they don't want to release an interim patch before that is fixed (for whatever reason). So why would they still release pay-content stuff like 3.0 for the old games and the vehicles pack? Because they can, that's why. It's done, it works. Should they withold those releases just because they aren't ready with the CMRT patch? That makes no sense at all. They were supposed to have released all kinds of content by now, so of course there is preassure to release SOMETHING for now, and since those things were ready, that's what gets released. Meanwhile, they keep working on the CMRT patch so they can get that out and start focusing on more profitable releases like CMBS and modules for CMRT and CMFI. Anyone who thinks they are witholding the CMRT patch on purpose is a paranoid idiot to be honest. It makes no economic sense to withold it in any way. In fact, it would make alot more sense to release it without the buildings bug fixed and move on to modules and new games, but that's not the way BFC does things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 A fix to the unsynch problem in tcp turn based lan after loading a save would make two player join the fun again. As have been said earlier; After the load is complete the host computer has its turn already starting to countdown, while the opponent can issue orders for the same turn. The desynch usually starts after 1-2 turns and always happens to the host (example; host 50:45 opponent 51:00). No difference in RT when using save.. I'm sorry for going off topic here, but HOLY FRAK, you're from Malmö??? I'm from Kävlinge, not far at all from Malmö! I've only seen swedes on these forums that are from Göteborg or Stockholm (or in the middle of nowhere in the northern wastes), but never one from this close to home 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm sorry for going off topic here, but HOLY FRAK, you're from Malmö??? I'm from Kävlinge, not far at all from Malmö! I've only seen swedes on these forums that are from Göteborg or Stockholm (or in the middle of nowhere in the northern wastes), but never one from this close to home I live in Malmö as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I live in Malmö as well. I think we just discovered a CM cluster. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think we just discovered a CM cluster. They could start a club. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Oh my! I didn't know I had so many CM afficionados near me We should meet up and have a hotseat battle some weekend 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You lucky Swedes! I only know of one forum member who is from Slovenia (my home country). Country is so small that as soon as you are from it you are regarded to be close to each other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Oh my! I didn't know I had so many CM afficionados near me We should meet up and have a hotseat battle some weekend Sounds like a plan! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You lucky Swedes! They are not swedes. They are danes - but too modest to admit it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piecekeeper Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ....and here is another swede! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 They are not swedes. They are danes - but too modest to admit it Naah, we're scanians, but the swedes and danes are too afraid to admit that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 ....and here is another swede! Swede, yes... But are you a scanian? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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