88mm gun please be transportable and (semi-deployed)

[BLSTK]

Speaking of which...I just saw "The Reichs: Seasons One Through Three" on eBay. But you'll have to act quickly.

[niall78]

This isn't really an either-or situation though. I'd say they all played a role, along with confusion and friction created amongst British by the carpet bombing, delays in getting through 6th ABs unmarked minefields, severely restricted deployment and maneauvre space, lack of fire support as the British soon advanced beyond the range of their artillery and the one FAC available was KOd early, and a little bit of help from the GAF division that was otherwise obliterated.

I agree entirely. There's a train of thought that suggest official reports and unit histories on the British side embraced Von Lucks 88mm battery story to cover for major deficiencies in the planning and execution of Goodwood.

[zmoney]

Of course the 88s in the game are modelled perfectly, like everything else that undermodels German weapons...

I do not get what you think was under modeled? I am having literally no problem using German equipment in any of the games. In fact the only thing off the top of my head that was over modeled was the Stug's frontal armor in CMBB.

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems as if you get upset when you lose a single tank or soldier to enemy fire (in the game of course). So some how you think this isn't realistic because the Germans were invincible. This may surprise you but the German loses in total KIA, WIA and MIA for the invasion of Poland nearly equaled 50,000. That was just against the vastly outnumber/ equipped Polish who eventually fought a two front war against both the Germans and Soviets.

The thing people need to keep in perspective is that casualty figures in this time period were much higher. There was no supreme super weapon that was that much better than the opposition's equipment. Un-like in today's militaries where there is a huge difference in training and material between even developed nations. So you cannot look at todays casualty figures in modern wars and try to equate it to figures of wars past. I think this is where the true believers in German total superiority make mistakes.

Quickly just a run down on general equipment. The Germans did not have even close to the best infantry rifle in WWII. Submachine guns were on par but not superior in any way. The STG44 was a revolutionary weapon but did not appear in any number or early enough to make a difference. MG42 was obviously a great machine gun, but it is not as if no other nation had machine guns of their own so really no massive advantage here. So as you can see as far as infantry are concerned the Germans are weaker in equipment than that of the Russians and the US. They are on par with the Britt's for the most part as far as infantry equipment.

In my opinion as far as infantry equipment goes, the only thing the Germans did supremely better at was in the AT department. The faust was genius as well as some of the AT grenades.

So show me how the Germans are under modeled. I think the German command under modeled their own troops and this is reflecting in game.

[ASL Veteran]

What do you get a dead guy for his 125th?

Maybe CM Red Thunder?

[sburke]

I dunno. How about The Fourth Reich?

Can that be considered a group gift or do we all have to get our own?

ooh choices ASL Vet you always give the best gifts at parties.

Maybe CM Red Thunder?

[PhilM]

:D

The Germans used Houdini and imagined only the losses. The forum propaganda brigade claims the same about the effectiveness of the Stukas. The Germans attacked and simply imagined the effectiveness of the previous dive bomber attack. Imagination was the secret of their combat power.

Ofcourse the 88s in the game are modelled perfectly, like everything else that undermodels German weapons...

And if nothing helps, a smearing author comes handy to be used by the forum brigade to support jokingly bad models...

Serves me right, I guess, for moaning in another thread about the forum software issue that incorrectly marks posts as read before I've seen them: where's that glitch when you really need it!

[Vanir Ausf B]

I wouldn't mind seeing 88s able to fire while limbered. But if they were, I suspect the same people lobbying for them to be allowed would be soon complaining about how quickly they died when used that way.

The notion that Stuka effectiveness is under-modeled is absurd, as already mentioned.

The MG42 is already the best MMG in the game. Whether or not it is enough better is debatable, but it is interesting that US soldiers who were on the receiving end of it were not as impressed with its lethality as some people in this thread.

[Volksgrenadier]

I do not get what you think was under modeled?

The MG42 not more effective than other MGs?

Difference of a sMG42 to a Maxim?

Stukas not more effective than ordinary flyover bombers?

88 immobile against all historical facts. No superior optics. Russian tanks at +1000 m with crappy optics can hit an entrenched 88 more easily than it hits it's target at that range?

Panther's front brittle as a china plate?

And these are not even niche weapons.

I find it funny how the forum propaganda brigade denies it's intentions, although everyone can read it in almost every of their posts.

[Rokko]

You're so deep in the bubble man, it's not even funny anymore.

[Lawrence]

Some of the comments here and elsewhere kind of remind me of a character out of Mel Brooks', 'The Producers'.

[MikeyD]

I don't think he actually plays the game.

[sburke]

sburke - proud member of the Forum Propaganda Brigade since Jan 2006. Having just passed my 8th anniversary as a member of the FPB I got my traditional tie pin and doily.

What I haven't yet managed was to get myself banned. Then come back. Then get banned again. Then come back. No that takes a very very "special" kind of person.

I suspect you are wrong MikeyD. He plays and loses and blames the game.

[Volksgrenadier]

sburke - proud member of the Forum Propaganda Brigade since Jan 2006.

[sburke]

I told you not to be posting your selfies. It is just a wee bit too personal for our tastes. Your goggles are kind a cute though.

[Blazing 88's]

I wouldn't mind seeing 88s able to fire while limbered. But if they were, I suspect the same people lobbying for them to be allowed would be soon complaining about how quickly they died when used that way...

I just want it as an option to have is all. It would probably be more practical early in the war though. I am fine with waiting for a North African (40-43) or France 1940 Combat Mission series with this implemented as it would seem to be more practical for that point in time (survivability wise). As I mentioned earlier, this is far from a game killer.

[BLSTK]

re: Uncle Adolf and The Fourth Reich:

Can that be considered a group gift or do we all have to get our own?

Good one, Burkey.

Over at Amazon.com they've got a great deal on Reichs. Buy three, get one free.

On a similar note...whenever Christmas rolled around at the workplace, our staff had a tradition of regifting a gilded bust of Elvis. We could easily add Uncle Adolf to the "unofficial" Secret Santa list and rig things so the two iconoclasts could be united for all eternity.

[zmoney]

The MG42 not more effective than other MGs?

Difference of a sMG42 to a Maxim?

Stukas not more effective than ordinary flyover bombers?

88 immobile against all historical facts. No superior optics. Russian tanks at +1000 m with crappy optics can hit an entrenched 88 more easily than it hits it's target at that range?

Panther's front brittle as a china plate?

And these are not even niche weapons.

I find it funny how the forum propaganda brigade denies it's intentions, although everyone can read it in almost every of their posts.

Haven't played with or against stukas yet so no comment. Uhhh you do realize the MG42 and the maxim are both machine guns right. To what are you referring to? It is not like the MG42 had heat seeking rounds and the maxim fired rubber bullets. In my experience my Russian troops suffer a great deal of casualties when bunched up to the MG42. I'd even say a higher number of casualties than to any other small arm weapon.

Panther being brittle I have not experienced on a wide scale or at all really.

Again in my experience I have a definite advantage at long ranges against the Russia's so I do not see the problem here. Now if a Russian tank spots your 88 at 1000 meters before it fires and takes it out, I would say that is a definite bug. But if your 88 knocks out a couple of tanks and then gets knocked out itself, I do not see the big deal.

If these are your experiences than these are your experiences and not mine, maybe you got a different copy of the game than I. If you live in Germany maybe the game was initially nerfed due to the anti-Nazi laws.

But lastly if you want to setup a battle where I have Panthers, 88's and MG42's I feel pretty confident I can hold in the defense against you even with my watered done units.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I'm wondering where the claim comes from that the MG42 in the game isn't any better than other machine guns. Until I see some test results, count me skeptical.

It is true that the upper front hull armor on the Panther G seems to be oddly brittle. Then again, the same armor on all models of the T-34 was not uniformly as thin/bad as it is the the game either, but Volksgrenadier seems to not have a problem with that.

[sburke]

Haven't played with or against stukas yet so no comment. Uhhh you do realize the MG42 and the maxim are both machine guns right. To what are you referring to? It is not like the MG42 had heat seeking rounds and the maxim fired rubber bullets. In my experience my Russian troops suffer a great deal of casualties when bunched up to the MG42. I'd even say a higher number of casualties than to any other small arm weapon.

Who knows what VG is playing, but there is absolutely no comparison. The damn maxims are a pain dragging around the map and trying to get into position. Then let er rip.. umm okay, let er rip...aww c'mon guys pour some lead down range! Meanwhile the MG42 is ripping your men apart....

Yes they are both MGs, but in game or RL there is no question as to which I'd want.

[Michael Emrys]

Von Lucks military achievements and major experiences aren't in doubt though unlike a lot of German WW2 personal memoirs.

I agree. I read them I guess over a decade ago with pleasure and interest and I tend to have confidence in them. But nobody gets everything right I suppose.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Imagination was the secret of their combat power.

Actually that's not far wrong. One of the things that the Germans were masters of was making themselves look more awesome than they actually were. Being able to psychologically dominate their enemies was responsible for a lot of their early success. It won them the Sudetenland for instance, and held the French back from attacking after the war started in Poland when Germany had a window of vulnerability in the west. They had plenty of technical superiority in some weaponry and certainly in tactical expertise, and they were also skilled at leveraging that to conceal the areas where they might not be so hot.

Michael

[womble]

Now if a Russian tank spots your 88 at 1000 meters before it fires and takes it out, I would say that is a definite bug.

Just to be picky: it's in no way definite that that's a bug. It would depend greatly on how well concealed the 88 is; the Flak 36 is only 50mm shorter than a StuG. If the 88 had a Cover Arc that just missed the tank, say, the Ivan would have the remainder of the minute to blow it to Kingdom Come, plus a "ranging in" advantage once the german player cancelled the CA. Similarly, it's possible that a tank moving out of concealment in woodland might spot a poorly-sited ATG before the ATG sees the tank. Not likely, perhaps, but, depending on the soft factors and spotting info propagation between units, possible.

[Mord]

Steiner14...the gift that keeps on giving...paranoid, angry, and just itching for the chance to release his inner Adolf.

For all of you that weren't aware the the Germans didn't really lose the war...they've been conducting a tactical withdraw for the last 70 years.

Mord.

[Apocal]

Stukas not more effective than ordinary flyover bombers?

Well, I was going to leave the matter at rest, but since you insist on bringing it up again (but in a different thread, the world wonders...) I couldn't help but notice you never did provide any of those loss accounts from the Soviet side.

And the MG42 is hands down better in-game than the Maxim/DP, I had no idea this was even something up for debate.

[lurrp]

Man, I haven't even been here that long and this is like the third itineration of Steiner that I've run into. He's like the villain of the BF forums, always sneaking back in. How much time do you have "Volksgrenadier"?