z1812 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I was sorry to read in the manual that planes will randomly fly the map looking for targets instead of being called in by Forward Observers. Too bad there was not an option to have one or the other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 That only applies to the russians. The germans still have it the old way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 No, it applies to all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 It used to apply to just the Russians but the current state of the German air force on the eastern front just didn't justify targeted close air support. Frankly, the testers were happy to see it change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 When the RT engine gets back-ported into BN v3 and FI v2, will this change apply? I've always thought that "FAC" were a "thing", at least for the Allies. Perhaps it might be possible to buy "random JABO" that works on its own, for a discount, or"FAC-required" air support which needs an FO. Could even draw a distinction between FAC and FO, and make FAC (and FAC-controlled air) have high rarity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 That's up to Steve and Charles, though I can't recall them ever threatening to kill close air support in the standing titles. I would be surprised if they allowed it for the Germans in the Bulge title. I don't know if they've even thought that far ahead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarre Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 im sou happy that airplanes operate by them self like it was on CM; barbarossa to berlin . Airplanes was changin factor X in battles . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Unfortunately the code for a nation can only be set to "player controlled" or "random death from above". There's no ability to have it be conditional, which is a shame since that would be the best way to go. We're not going to change the behavior or CMBN or CMFI. It has the potential of screwing up existing scenarios and also causing confusion. At least that's the thinking right now. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Air support in Russia was different anyway. Usually either pre planned targets or hunting for opportunity targets. Not sure yet how BF have approached the issue. One possible solution might involve TRPS and/or preplanned airstrikes allowing more flexible options for the Germans. That way we can employ the German tactic of timing a serious airstrike employng the Stukas to hit a specified position just before the Panzers go in. The Soviets do not get access to this facility. Of course, it is entirely possible that BF are way ahead of me on this one! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Unfortunately the code for a nation... Cool, so it can depend on nation and "family", at least... Can it be set by the date of the engagement too? ...can only be set to "player controlled" or "random death from above". There's no ability to have it be conditional, which is a shame since that would be the best way to go. Tis a shame. We're not going to change the behavior or CMBN or CMFI. It has the potential of screwing up existing scenarios and also causing confusion. That makes sense. Even if you went through all the BFC-sourced scenarios and sorted them out, all the player-created ones would need reworking too. Steve It's done and put to bed, then, if you've time to answer queries like this? Thursday is a traditional launch day... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Thanks for the clarification Steve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 "employng the Stukas to hit a specified position just before the Panzers go in." You can. A specific position for air support is just a rough circle 2-5 miles across. Not 20 by 20 meters. Also, "serious" air support is not a strike by one plane. And there were no ground FACs talking to the pilots in real time about which 20x20 meter tile to hit, each, in WW II... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwabie Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Not necessarily a bad thing. I find in many scenarios my FO is useless because he can't get LOS to anything, and by the time he can the AI is just about to surrender. And for realism's sake the "point target" CAS is very CMSF-ish. It would specifically require the JTAC/FAC to have a GPS module / laser designator which ain't common till the late 90s. Before that he'd still have to talk on target which ain't accurate to the exact point. But.... the 9-line CAS transmitted via Link 16 thing nowadays sure is sweeet! Time Traveling Skwabie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Personally I can't wait for the moments that go something like this: "Ah yes, I hear a plane. Perfect timing, now these German Dogs will feel the wrath of airborne pain! NOOO! STOP! STOOP! My Beautiful army! So much blood, my poor brave Russians.." But then I am a massive masochist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Yeah, I think Jason has the right perspective. At this level if you call in air support and a friendly aircraft shows up and ends up hitting the enemy, that's pretty much a win. Soviet pilots had maps they could pull out with grids and all, like everyone else, but not 20x20 meters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 ahem...8x8m, even. Another note: CEP for bombs has been opened up quite a bit in current version, so keep still, keep hidden and keep your distance when "friendly" aircraft show up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Personally I can't wait for the moments that go something like this: "Ah yes, I hear a plane. Perfect timing, now these German Dogs will feel the wrath of airborne pain! NOOO! STOP! STOOP! My Beautiful army! So much blood, my poor brave Russians.." But then I am a massive masochist. Hehehe yeah, I would prefer if it was like that on all fronts really. Just did a QB when testing some sounds for my soundmod and the AI had air support. It came over several times without finding a target (was inf vs inf only) but when it finally did, it destroyed an entire flank for me. BUT, once it had done that, it proceeded to decimate the AI's units on that front as well Oh the joy of double-edged swords 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 ahem...8x8m, even. Another note: CEP for bombs has been opened up quite a bit in current version, so keep still, keep hidden and keep your distance when "friendly" aircraft show up. CEP? 10char 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 CEP? 10char Circular error probable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 "employng the Stukas to hit a specified position just before the Panzers go in." You can. A specific position for air support is just a rough circle 2-5 miles across. Not 20 by 20 meters. Also, "serious" air support is not a strike by one plane. And there were no ground FACs talking to the pilots in real time about which 20x20 meter tile to hit, each, in WW II... Exactly. And actually, in 1944, the Germans couldn't even accomplish a CAS 2-5 mile target zone in coordination with ground action because they lacked air superiority. Coordinating air attack to hit targets close to the line of contact on the ground, timed to coordinate with ground actions, generally requires the pilots to loiter over the battle area, carefully identify their target point(s), and then attack during the designated time interval. None of this was possible for the Luftwaffe over the East Front in 1944; a Stuka or even a ground attack FW-190 would be dead meat loitering over Belarus in 1944. Way too many Russian fighters, way too few escorting German fighters. Most of the good German fighter pilots were back over the Reich, battling American and British bombers, giving the Soviets substantial air superiority. It's arguable that Soviet air superiority in 1944 was not as absolute as what the Allies had in the ETO, but the fact of the matter is the IL-2s were able to operate unescorted in the skies over Bagration with minimal risk of interference from German fighters, while German Stuka & FW-190 ground attack pilots could count on being the hunted almost from the moment they took off. What the Luftwaffe did occasionally manage during this timeframe was quick hit-and-run attacks on known areas of Soviet advance -- pilots using speed and/or NOE flying to reach suspected areas of Soviet activity without being intercepted, striking quickly at whatever they could see, and then trying to egress by the same methods they used to ingress. These strikes were occasionally successful, but had at best only temporary tactical effects, and were very costly to the Luftwaffe. So... yeah; randomly appearing Tac Air over the CMRT battlefield is, if anything, generous for what the Germans were able to muster in 1944. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Circular error probable Ooooh, fancy-talk! thanx. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I quite like the change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 The new system is a coin toss that could very well work to your advantage during gameplay. You hear a plane overhead and 'something' on the far side of the map explodes. Maybe it was a bogged truck, maybe it was an company commander's ISU-152. Either way, if you were restricted to LOS FO spotting it would've never been hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Don't also forget, by this stage, the Panzer units often had no knowledge whatsoever of the timings of a strike, just that it might happen. I'm just wondering how BF will simulate the quick, individual, strikes of the Luftwaffe, versus the far more deliberate and corporate Soviet attacks? I remember, in an annual produced by Veterans of a German Panzer Grenadier division, a photo in 1944, taken looking straight up. You could count six Il-2's flying in close formation, one firing it's cannon. In another photo, literally dozens of Il-2's flying in circles at NOE altitude, astonishing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Most of the good German fighter pilots were back over the Reich, battling American and British bombers... You might take that even further and say that most of the good German fighter pilots were dead already. Certainly there was a leavening of skilled and experienced pilots, but increasingly the numbers were made of with half trained green pilots who often died before they could master their trade. They had already lost a lot of their best pilots by the end of 1943 and then Big Week hit them really hard. Add that to oil shortages and other exigencies of the time curtailing training and...well, as I started out saying, green half trained boys who got shot down sooner rather than later in most cases. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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