The future of user made scenarios – and the lack of community feedback

[Oddball_E8]

Yeah, mod is never finished. That's a number one fact. Why? Because creativity and taste are limitless.

Ahem, so you say engine idle/active sounds are fubar in vanilla too or just in mods? I thought I only mixed mods with different volume set.

I've only had it happen when using soundmods.

BUT, like I said, it's not constant.

My theory is that the soundmods have larger sound files which puts a larger strain on the game and the vehicle sounds are the first to go so to speak.

I'm certainly no expert on how the game handles sounds, but since I made most of my sounds shorter (1.1 second long for weapons on average) by removing the echo and using the in-game echos to get that effect, I've noticed a significant decrease in instances where the engine sounds have been muffled.

[Hister]

I see. Back to the drawing board.

[WillemO]

Hello to all scenario designers.

First of all, THANK YOU, thank you, thank you. Sincerely.

I would like to make ammends by providing feedback on scenarios that I have downloaded and played. Where to start?

May I make a suggestion? In the scenario description you could include your email and a request for feedback. Maybe some might provide an incentive such as "Please email the author your review of the scenario and the author will email you a new scenario" or something like that.

Is there a list of scenarios sorted by author anywhere?

[c3k]

^^^

Nice point.

I know that I -rarely- get a chance to play/use downloaded content until weeks (or months) have passed. At that point, I have no idea where I got it from, if, indeed it was not part of the original content, or who worked on it. It is just a title on a list of "Battles" or "Campaigns".

Throwing in a designer note in the briefing would be good. Again, not perfect, but good.

[PanzerMike]

Thanks WillemO! You are welcome!

The repository is not exactly user friendly and could use some love. But I can find my way around there. For a list of sceanrios sorted by author, you could look at this:

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=select&id=60&orderby=5&page=3

It is sorted on submitter (sorting on author seems bugged, but submitter and author are mostly the same anyway).

[Bimmer]

I think I can answer that easily, any sales of anything based on CM would violate your agreement at purchase and violate copyright.

Well, so much for that experimental idea. It's a shame, in the sense that I am genuinely curious to see if there's a causal relationship between paid content and feedback. Of course, the greater shame is that so many users are so lazy/ungrateful/entitled/whatever that they can't be bothered to take few moments to offer feedback on hours and hours of work provided to them free of charge.

[A Canadian Cat]

the greater shame is that so many users are so lazy/ungrateful/entitled/whatever that they can't be bothered to take few moments to offer feedback on hours and hours of work provided to them free of charge.

Hey, I resemble that remark - at least part of it. I do put some effort into offering feedback - when testing scenarios and on the Blitz scenario pages after a game. The kicker is the time between downloading something an playing it can be pretty long. I try to keep track of were scenarios comes from but the lazy part of me often screws that up.

The idea of charging even $1 could theoretically help with that. Right now I dl everything as it arrives in the Repository announcements but I do not play them all and those I do it takes a while to get to. However if I had to stop and pay I would instead only dl content I was about to play. That would reduce the likely hood that I could not connect the dots back to where I got the scenario from.

It might help. Of course the point is mute since as @sburke points out that is not actually doable.

[Oddball_E8]

the greater shame is that so many users are so lazy/ungrateful/entitled/whatever that they can't be bothered to take few moments to offer feedback on hours and hours of work provided to them free of charge.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I personally feel I am such a noob compared to the grogs here that I don't feel that I am qualified to give any feedback on a scenario other than "I liked it" or "I didn't like it".

So I usually don't give feedback on scenarios.

Not to mention that I don't play at all as much as I used to back in CMx1 days, so I hardly ever play any scenarios anyway and when I finally do, I usually don't know who made it or if it was even downloaded in the first place.

[griffin33]

My hat is off to anyone who designs a scenario. It's a lot of work, and it is much appreciated. I almost always comment, maybe just to say thank you for the work. The problem is I don't have any idea who most of you are, or what experience you have. I'm not that close to you players. And I refuse to comment on someone's English! From what you've said, I'm not the average downloader, but I do hope you can encourage more feedback for your effort. You deserve it! I can type, and I can play - but I have no idea how to even take a screenshot! Thank you to all who take on the effort to design a scenario.

[niall78]

Of course, the greater shame is that so many users are so lazy/ungrateful/entitled/whatever that they can't be bothered to take few moments to offer feedback on hours and hours of work provided to them free of charge.

I'm sorry you feel that way Bimmer. In my opinion both the modders and scenario designers add a whole extra dimension to Battlefronts games. But I'd like to reinforce what c3k said a few posts above this.

I bought FI as soon as it came out. I bought Gustav Line as soon as it came out. I also downloaded any user created content as soon as it was released. I am only now playing my way through my first campaign in that series. I've a full Z folder and many user created scenarios and as time has passed I don't know who created many of them. I would presume many are in the same boat as me.

Modding and creating scenarios for Combat Mission will probably never bring the kudos and massive feedback that can be generated for other PC titles. It can take me months to fight through a full campaign - it might take me actual years to finally getting round to playing scenarios I downloaded when the game was fresh. That doesn't mean the users aren't very grateful for the extra content - it just means they haven't got around to using it yet or by the time they do they've forgotten who made the content.

These games aren't the latest FPSs or RPGs where modders get an instant response for a new gun or spell effect. They are slow burners that'll be on peoples PCs for the next ten years maybe - just like CM1. Over that period many will enjoy the content provided by the community - it mightn't bring instant gratification to the modder but it should bring a warm glow knowing your content will be used for years instead of dumped when the next AAA title comes along.

[sburke]

Well, so much for that experimental idea. It's a shame, in the sense that I am genuinely curious to see if there's a causal relationship between paid content and feedback. Of course, the greater shame is that so many users are so lazy/ungrateful/entitled/whatever that they can't be bothered to take few moments to offer feedback on hours and hours of work provided to them free of charge.

As others have noted, scenario and campaign designers are I think far less likely to get a decent quantity of feedback just because of the nature of when the player actually gets to try it. Modders I think get it immediately from at least some just because the impact is immediate. Good example is Umlaut's factory mod set and scenario. Despite it being EXACTLY what I'd hoped to see in CM, while I did give a response on the mod I am far slower responding on the scenario.

[Fizou]

As others have noted, scenario and campaign designers are I think far less likely to get a decent quantity of feedback just because of the nature of when the player actually gets to try it. Modders I think get it immediately from at least some just because the impact is immediate. Good example is Umlaut's factory mod set and scenario. Despite it being EXACTLY what I'd hoped to see in CM, while I did give a response on the mod I am far slower responding on the scenario.

+1, especially if you play PBEM and it might take a long while to finish the scenario. Im looking forward to leaving feedback for "Firebridge von Saucken" as soon as I have finished it.

[CarlWAW]

As a scenario designer myself, I don't have a problem with no feedback, but feedback would be good, to learn in which areas something could be improved.

The solution could be soo simple:

It had been suggested many years ago, to give scenario designers the ability of a debriefing text, after the battle is finished.

In this text, a clickable e-mail or HTML-link, the program is able to call, would do wonders, since the player only needs to click it, an email for the scenario designer would pop up and would be sent automatically, all managed by the installed mailprogram.

A debriefing text would have numerous other positive effects, but who am I to make suggestions to the allknowing mob on this forum...

Edited June 19, 2015 by CarlWAW

[umlaut]

Yes, that would definitely be an improvement that I would welcome. How much of this problem it would solve I am really not able to judge, but I´m sure it would be a substantial step in the right direction. Whether it is technically doable I have no idea. Perhaps BFC would care to comment?

[kohlenklau]

Hi Dennis,

 

I think you should give a try to running something like a CMPzC Operation. You get to do many of the same creative expressions as in scenario writing, mod making, map making, etc.

You get to NOT have to do any AI plans! You get to see the maps used. In the wake of the Operation you can release any maps or mods or even a scenario if you added AI plans.

 

You could utilize the great stuff you've already made and interweave a story (I know this is up your alley!) and then take a list of who will play the 2 sides.

 

Not a solution to your thread's issue but maybe getting you in a better more enjoyable place for the hobby. Which maybe is the future of user made scenarios?

[Melchior]

I just got into community made scenarios only about a month ago when I ran out of things to do in CMRT. Which shipped with very few scenarios and campaigns built in. Overall i'm really impressed with effort that goes into scenario creation and even the worst scenarios i've played are always commendable efforts.

The future of user made scenarios is probably further refinement of the scenario designer to decrease the (large) workload that goes into making the scenarios I would think. I tried my hand at scenario design years ago but stopped because it's just way too time consuming with the tools at hand. The effort that must go into scenario designing is on the level of graphic designing, and they typically get paid.

I would not mind if scenario designers charged a little for their work.

[Vencini]

I get discouraged when I start an scenario with lots of units from the beginning. I love when I start with few units (CMx2 micromanagement it's very funny) and then, reinforcements arrive in waves.

 

Most of medium and big scenarios stars with lots of units and it's hard to manage for not "hard core" players. Same for campaigns.

 

Anyway thanks all people out there who makes scenarios for the community. Will love in future more scenarios and campaigns "start with few units"

 

Regards

[Nidan1]

I don't think its necessary for designers to "start or run a tournament" in order to get feedback on their design efforts. In fact, and John K can correct me if I'm wrong, the tournament parameters were established before any scenarios were even created. A call then went out to the community for people interested  in designing specifically for the current tournament. In the case of ROW once the rules were established and people understood what was involved, scenarios were not hard to come by. Just having one of your scenario designs as part of the ROW Tournament was a small honor in itself. So the "feel good" aspect of doing something creative and having others enjoy it could be had without specific feedback.

 

As one poster said previously, do the scenario design for your own satisfaction, and don't expect any support for the outside and you will be better off. If you decide to make your creation available to the community and someone pats you on the back, so much the better. 

 

The future of these games and our enjoyment of them is a continuous flow of additional battles that are designed by other players. QBs are fine but in my opinion they dont take the place of scenarios.

[kohlenklau]

I never used the word tournament. I don't even like tournaments. The suggestion to Dennis is to go beyond the feedback loop and get what I see he is seeking, to know your creations are being used by being the person managing the Operation. For his broadbased CM creativity and involvement, I see it would be right up his alley. It would bring him a great feeling of satisfaction. My opinion of course but based on my own experiences. 

[Nidan1]

I didn't say you did, I was referring to a post by umlaut, from way earlier in this thread (it goes back to last year).

 

Tournaments are not everyone's up of tea, granted, but the example given about the ROW tournaments was an answer to folks who felt that feedback was an important component to getting more user designed battles for CMx2.

[kohlenklau]

Whoops, my apology for jumping the gun. Holy Crap this thread is old. I had to go back to February 2014 to see what you said. OK.

And there was Dennis's thoughts on the running of a tournament: Not gonna happen.

 

So, I assume he would feel the same way about organizing an operation though I do see it from my perspective as quite different than a tournament.

 

Oh well, I am having fun doing them and I have all the passwords and can watch every turn and get to play Zeus the almighty and such fun.

My mods get to be selectively sprinkled into the battles. I get to use my own maps or choose others. I get to pick forces and do graphic fun stuff. It is a freaking blast!

 

I hope Dennis gives it a try to run a small operation and can squeeze some newfound joy out of this hobby.

[Battlefront.com]

As a scenario designer myself, I don't have a problem with no feedback, but feedback would be good, to learn in which areas something could be improved.

The solution could be soo simple:

It had been suggested many years ago, to give scenario designers the ability of a debriefing text, after the battle is finished.

In this text, a clickable e-mail or HTML-link, the program is able to call, would do wonders, since the player only needs to click it, an email for the scenario designer would pop up and would be sent automatically, all managed by the installed mailprogram.

All fine here, but...

A debriefing text would have numerous other positive effects, but who am I to make suggestions to the allknowing mob on this forum...

Not so much here. This is called "baiting" and it is not an acceptable form of behavior here (read the Forum use agreement you no doubt blindly clicked through when signing up). Given the fact that you were just shy of banned for your previous outbursts, you apparently lack a significant amount of common sense.

Do you really want to post here, or just get banned? Please, make up your mind or I'll do it for you.

Steve

[CarlWAW]

All fine here

Cool that you like it. Can we expect it with Bulge? (the earlier, the better for scenario designers)

[J Bennett]

Ah its always nice to have a "CarlWAW" to take the heat off of me for a shall we say, "questionable" post I made in another thread; It was also unpopular.

Unfortunately, I suspect Carl won't be around much longer at the present rate. Anyway, to try to get back in the forums good graces I would like to say I too appreciate the work of the scenario designers. I havent dowloaded one yet from the repository, but I look forward to it in  the near future. I know it takes a lot of work and a ton of time to do them. So i want to say a sincere THANKS to all scenario builders.  JB

[dragonwynn]

I agree it can be a bit frustrating. I spend my time creating either campaigns or scenarios (both of which I am still a rookie) for the enjoyment of the community and though I am not asking for comments or feedback they are of course very welcome. I haven't played a single scenario in quite a while simply because my free time is spent trying to create (which I do enjoy). It is a lot of work to just put a scenario together much less a full blown campaign so the feedback, even the negative, is like getting a reward after all the hard work.

 

What can be done to improve the situation I have no clue. I would not want the players who try my stuff out to feel like they are obligated to comment but it sure is nice when they do.